Mission E / Taycan - Deposits
12-12-2017, 11:01 AM
#47
Chris Harris had basically the same test drive experience as I had with the Tesla:
http://autoweek.com/article/technolo...-porsche-911-r
I, too, felt ill after driving/riding in it from the porpoising motions. Since Porsche engineers are masters of teaching pigs to dance (Panamera, Cayenne, etc.), the Mission E should offer ride quality, handling and steering feel the Model S can't touch. So there is rationale behind waiting for the Porsche.
The only problem is that Ford or GM or ??? may release something even more enticing in the interim at which point - adios!
http://autoweek.com/article/technolo...-porsche-911-r
I, too, felt ill after driving/riding in it from the porpoising motions. Since Porsche engineers are masters of teaching pigs to dance (Panamera, Cayenne, etc.), the Mission E should offer ride quality, handling and steering feel the Model S can't touch. So there is rationale behind waiting for the Porsche.
The only problem is that Ford or GM or ??? may release something even more enticing in the interim at which point - adios!
12-13-2017, 11:39 AM
#48
I drove the Tesla S and loved it. My wife rejected it because the Panamera GTS have to go and she loves that car. So no deposit from me until she tries it first. It would function for 90% of the “time” we drive.
12-30-2017, 12:46 PM
#49
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I left my deposit yesterday, I am #34 on the waiting list. The 2020 Mission E was featured along with the 2018 RS 2 911 in the newest copy of Automibile magazine and the article was the tipping point for me. From everything I have read the Mission e is going to be a Tesla S killer and will take Porsche into the future. I was going to purchase a Tesla Model S 75D in 12-24 months but decided to order a base model Mission e instead. The fit and finish and build quality should be notch or two above the Tesla.
I test drove a Model S 85D about 6-months ago. Very, very impressive for a brand new car company. Loved the car but when I jumped back into my ICE to head home it felt like a Model T.
I test drove a Model S 85D about 6-months ago. Very, very impressive for a brand new car company. Loved the car but when I jumped back into my ICE to head home it felt like a Model T.
Last edited by Flat6-996; 12-30-2017 at 01:07 PM.
01-01-2018, 01:43 PM
#51
Happy New Year to all Rennlisters..!!
Started 2018 by receiving confirmation of my $1K Mission E deposit with Champion Porsche in South Florida. Not sure my place in line but have a good 18 months to ponder. Shooting for an 'S' model if there is such a thing. Thank you everyone that helped me out on this post.
Best wishes for 2018 and beyond!
Started 2018 by receiving confirmation of my $1K Mission E deposit with Champion Porsche in South Florida. Not sure my place in line but have a good 18 months to ponder. Shooting for an 'S' model if there is such a thing. Thank you everyone that helped me out on this post.
Best wishes for 2018 and beyond!
02-09-2018, 03:12 PM
#53
02-15-2018, 12:56 AM
#54
Nordschleife Master
Interesting reading ... Porsche is working hard to sell its electric transformation to its motorhead fans
https://electrek.co/2018/02/14/porsc...otorhead-fans/
“Switch on and enjoy the silence – undoubtedly one of the attractions of electric powertrains. Manufacturers must do more, however, in particular those whose customers have become accustomed – after decades of combustion engine optimisation – to demanding the best. Their electric powertrains must guarantee the highest possible driving performance over long periods of time. Any manufacturer that masters this challenge will create a long-lasting buzz among customers – thanks to the strengths of the electric powertrain.
In principle, the electric powertrain has one huge advantage in terms of driving dynamics: Since its power can potentially be delivered immediately thanks to force-locking, the torque can be transferred to the wheels with only a short delay. This means that even small cars or compact vehicles can produce more powerful acceleration than their conventionally powered siblings.” You can read the full post on Porsche’s media website.
https://electrek.co/2018/02/14/porsc...otorhead-fans/
Despite the fact that Porsche still doesn’t have an all-electric vehicle on the market, the German automaker made it clear that they are all-in on the electrification of their lineup. Now, they are working hard to sell this electric transformation to their motorhead fans ahead of the release of their first all-electric car. Over the last few weeks, the company has been releasing a bunch of interviews with executives in charge of the programs related to electrification and statements about their accelerated effort to bring EVs to market.Today, they also released a long essay about how electric powertrains offer several advantages over internal combustion engines – something you would have never thought could have come out of Porsche just a few years ago.
“Switch on and enjoy the silence – undoubtedly one of the attractions of electric powertrains. Manufacturers must do more, however, in particular those whose customers have become accustomed – after decades of combustion engine optimisation – to demanding the best. Their electric powertrains must guarantee the highest possible driving performance over long periods of time. Any manufacturer that masters this challenge will create a long-lasting buzz among customers – thanks to the strengths of the electric powertrain.
In principle, the electric powertrain has one huge advantage in terms of driving dynamics: Since its power can potentially be delivered immediately thanks to force-locking, the torque can be transferred to the wheels with only a short delay. This means that even small cars or compact vehicles can produce more powerful acceleration than their conventionally powered siblings.” You can read the full post on Porsche’s media website.
Last edited by FlatSix911; 02-15-2018 at 10:43 PM.
02-15-2018, 03:04 PM
#55
the German automaker made it clear that they are all-in on the electrification of their lineup. Now, they are working hard to sell this electric transformation to their motorhead fans....
Today, they also released a long essay about how electric powertrains offer several advantages over internal combustion engines – something you would have never thought could have come out of Porsche just a few years ago.
Today, they also released a long essay about how electric powertrains offer several advantages over internal combustion engines – something you would have never thought could have come out of Porsche just a few years ago.
-"..anyone who steps on the gas several times in quick succession in one of the vehicles currently available on the market will notice that accelerative power is greatly reduced after the first few attempts." First, "the gas". Really? Chris Harris had to do two full 0-150MPH tests, before the current 911 GTS barely beat a P100D. Rest assured, what you will get away with in public will feel limitless.
-"Ensuring a comprehensive supply of power is in itself a huge task;" Little Tesla pumped <1 billion into a SuperCharger network, that lasted into 2015. Porsche has 1 ~800v charger in the U.S., and a car they tell us will be here in 1 year. VW Group usually keeps ~20bn in the bank. Waiting.
-"however, current models require a very large and correspondingly expensive and heavy battery – on which more later." Like when, Porsche? Tell us. The good stuff is often "expensive". Panamera E hybrid is 5,000lbs w/14KWh, yet Model 3 is 3,800lbs w/80KWh. Model S ~5,000lbs w/100KWh.
-"We are faced with a crucial choice: should zero-emission cars be powered by electricity from coal-fired power plants or renewable energy sources? " False.
-"The calculations also omitted the energy required to manufacture the battery, which is currently a lot – according to a study by the Swedish Ministry for the Environment, the associated emissions are equivalent to those caused by driving a vehicle with a combustion engine for several years." Bold, for humor. How about that German precision?
An "all-in" effort this is not.
02-15-2018, 07:56 PM
#56
This piece shouldn't surprise anyone who knows VW Group's profile. There are some "motorhead" bits, but it is also tries hard to counter-sell EVs:
-"..anyone who steps on the gas several times in quick succession in one of the vehicles currently available on the market will notice that accelerative power is greatly reduced after the first few attempts." First, "the gas". Really? Chris Harris had to do two full 0-150MPH tests, before the current 911 GTS barely beat a P100D. Rest assured, what you will get away with in public will feel limitless.
-"..anyone who steps on the gas several times in quick succession in one of the vehicles currently available on the market will notice that accelerative power is greatly reduced after the first few attempts." First, "the gas". Really? Chris Harris had to do two full 0-150MPH tests, before the current 911 GTS barely beat a P100D. Rest assured, what you will get away with in public will feel limitless.
02-15-2018, 10:49 PM
#57
Nordschleife Master
DIdn't feel limitless to me when I was passed by a diesel C-class on my P90D test drive (in Germany). Granted, we had spent the previous 15 minutes launching the car on various on-ramps and stoplights, but in a real 600HP car the Mercedes (coming up at ~120mph from behind) would not have gotten past. Nevertheless, I have no doubt that the future is electric, and hopefully Porsche will get us there in a bit more style than what Tesla offers right now, and with more than one party trick.
We haven’t seen much of Tesla’s next-generation Roadster since the surprise unveiling during the Tesla Semi event last November.Now, the automaker puts the prototype on display for the first time at their headquarters. It was hard not to be amazed when they pulled the all-electric sports car out of the trailer of one of the two Tesla Semi prototypes at the event. The design was simply stunning, but then Elon Musk went on the list an even more impressive series of specs like 0-60 mph in 1.9 sec, 620-mile of range, and more.
And to top it all, Musk added that it is just what they are achieving right now with this prototype. He expects the specs could improve by the time they make it to production in 2020. The first prototype sighting in the wild was in Malibu last month where the prototype apparently broke down.Now, Tesla brought a prototype to its headquarters in Palo Alto and employees shared pictures on Reddit (full album thanks to Casey Spencer – same guy who brought us some hypermiling world records in the Model S and the mind-controlled Model S):
02-16-2018, 11:59 AM
#58
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Well, Tesla has to stay solvent, that is priority one. Elon Musk is a very impressive guy, but I think his biggest strength is marketing. Lots and lots of promises related to the Model 3 launch (and other items) have not been met, and the last quarterly earnings release paints a very concerning picture as to the continued viability of the business. I was long TSLA, but not anymore.
The new Roadster is mostly a bunch of ideas so far. Tesla is having trouble ramping up production on the 3, and they must be focussed on this. The main function of the Roadster is to get a bunch of reservation cash into the business to keep things going. I don't think the Roadster is very far along in development, especially when one considers the evidence that Tesla is falling behind on autonomous vehicle development, which is probably a bigger development priority for them.
As for Porsche, I think that essay actually was fair in that is considered pros and cons. I think the fact that Porsche is investing 7.4 billion USD into their EV programs over the next few years says all that needs to be said as to whether or not Porsche is "all in".
The question about coal remains valid in my opinion. The essay did not claim that all EV use would require coal generation, but rather that it will likely require some. In many parts of the world there is not enough economical and untapped renewable generation capacity to support a significant move to BEVs. The very small market share of BEVs to date is not enough to move the needle, but if that were to REALLY change, the marginal consumption is what needs to be considered, and a lot of that will be fossil fuel (coal or gas).
I am keen on BEVs, and very excited to see Mission E, but I also think that the "greenness" of BEVs is over-estimated when one considers battery production and marginal generation sources. There are conflicting studies, so you can choose your evidence, but from what I have read, I think BEVs are a little greener, but not as much as some may wish.
The new Roadster is mostly a bunch of ideas so far. Tesla is having trouble ramping up production on the 3, and they must be focussed on this. The main function of the Roadster is to get a bunch of reservation cash into the business to keep things going. I don't think the Roadster is very far along in development, especially when one considers the evidence that Tesla is falling behind on autonomous vehicle development, which is probably a bigger development priority for them.
As for Porsche, I think that essay actually was fair in that is considered pros and cons. I think the fact that Porsche is investing 7.4 billion USD into their EV programs over the next few years says all that needs to be said as to whether or not Porsche is "all in".
The question about coal remains valid in my opinion. The essay did not claim that all EV use would require coal generation, but rather that it will likely require some. In many parts of the world there is not enough economical and untapped renewable generation capacity to support a significant move to BEVs. The very small market share of BEVs to date is not enough to move the needle, but if that were to REALLY change, the marginal consumption is what needs to be considered, and a lot of that will be fossil fuel (coal or gas).
I am keen on BEVs, and very excited to see Mission E, but I also think that the "greenness" of BEVs is over-estimated when one considers battery production and marginal generation sources. There are conflicting studies, so you can choose your evidence, but from what I have read, I think BEVs are a little greener, but not as much as some may wish.
02-20-2018, 05:10 PM
#60
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I have this guy at the golf course that has a model S and he's always bragging that he can take my 911. BUT its always in the shop. Its a 50% chance he's in his second
car when he's at the course. So for that kind of money I want to drive it every day, I want to go to the track (not the drag strip a real road track), I want my car to last.
So I will stick with Porsche. His build quality just isn't what I am looking for either.
I will trust Porsche to build a MUCH better car than Tesla. So when the mission E shows up and he doesnt look like a Pany Ehybrid, I will go look at it, but as a replacment for
a summer subaru, my wife drives (we probably need the suby in the winter) But Im not putting a deposit on anything with Porsche or getting on an allocation list, not after going through those GT3 games twice now, 997 and 991.2
car when he's at the course. So for that kind of money I want to drive it every day, I want to go to the track (not the drag strip a real road track), I want my car to last.
So I will stick with Porsche. His build quality just isn't what I am looking for either.
I will trust Porsche to build a MUCH better car than Tesla. So when the mission E shows up and he doesnt look like a Pany Ehybrid, I will go look at it, but as a replacment for
a summer subaru, my wife drives (we probably need the suby in the winter) But Im not putting a deposit on anything with Porsche or getting on an allocation list, not after going through those GT3 games twice now, 997 and 991.2