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Thanks the Kyle/OutOfSpec getting time on Porsche’s Leipzig’s test track with one of their super drivers, we can see how well the Macan handles. This is going to be such a fun twisty-road cornering road carver!
I've seen posts on other forums insisting that, with the additional weight of the battery, an EV must necessarily handle worse than a comparable ICE vehicle. I didn't believe it because the weight distribution is completely different and the Macan EV, for one, is designed from the ground up as an EV. So I went back over every early road test I could find, like the one above, and every professional reviewer raved about how well the Macan EV handled. I hope that's true because I love how my base ICE Macan handles, which also has the air suspension, btw.
Thank you GMPNW, especially for not just getting into the anti or pro EV vitriol that grips ways to many forum threads but presenting real, third-party information. I value factual reviews/analysis like yours!
Thank you GMPNW, especially for not just getting into the anti or pro EV vitriol that grips ways to many forum threads but presenting real, third-party information. I value factual reviews/analysis like yours!
Wait, you haven't heard my theory on how aliens from outer space are using electromagnetic waves to steal our thoughts!
Anyone who has tracked a Taycan (and I have) will know that EVs are no slouches when it comes to dynamic handling.
The only problem, or issue, is weight. Tracking a Taycan is essentially taking lighter fluid and a match to your tires, pads and brake fluids. Which is ok, but you just have to account for it.
Anyone who has tracked a Taycan (and I have) will know that EVs are no slouches when it comes to dynamic handling.
The only problem, or issue, is weight. Tracking a Taycan is essentially taking lighter fluid and a match to your tires, pads and brake fluids. Which is ok, but you just have to account for it.
I thought regenerative braking meant that EVs don't really use their brakes all that much for normal driving. No?
I've seen posts on other forums insisting that, with the additional weight of the battery, an EV must necessarily handle worse than a comparable ICE vehicle. I didn't believe it because the weight distribution is completely different and the Macan EV, for one, is designed from the ground up as an EV. So I went back over every early road test I could find, like the one above, and every professional reviewer raved about how well the Macan EV handled. I hope that's true because I love how my base ICE Macan handles, which also has the air suspension, btw.
EV's handle good far from the limits. They have a low roll center which is great, and with teslas they've done pretty much everything logical to make them handle as good as possible; multi-link rear end, doublewishbone front and the suspension works ok, much better than my sport suspension 335i bmw for example which in theory bmw fanboys probably claim is a drivers car.
However you can't trick the laws of physics and changing the direction of a 4000-6000lb EV really causes problems. The tires just can't handle it on the limits and it ends up feeling heavy as you over load the tires on the outside in a corner. The brakes can't handle it either, not even a track pack plaid tracked buy a guy who owned a performance shop could figure out how to make the brakes work. He gave up and bought a ICE Porsche as a dedicated track car.
Here is an example. One random tricky cornering section at the nurburgring and a Telsa Plaid dips down to 108kph at it's lowest corner speed. A normal 991.2 GT3 dips down to 122kph at it's lowest speed and transitions the section much smoother from shifting the momentum from a right hnader to a left hander. 14kph difference in corner speed is nuts.
I have instructed more than one Telsa on the track (I'm a pca national and FIA licensed instructor) and they feel better than expected in the corners for all that weight, but they just aren't fast in the corners. Tires aren't designed to take a 4000-6000lb car and put it on the edge of grip for spirited/track driving and have the same things happen to them that happen on a car at half the weight. I also don't see how EV's function without a lot of software controlling it, so that takes a lot away from the enjoyment of it as well on the edge as well as the predictability of anyone skilled because you dont know wtf the computers are going to do next. Although it looks like Porsche still lets you turn off a lot of the nannies judging by that video.
So in some respects they can seem better than ICE cars, but I'd classify them as far worse handling.
So in some respects they can seem better than ICE cars, but I'd classify them as far worse handling.
What a pleasure to read a comment from someone who knows what he is talking about!
What about driving on public roads? On my luckiest day I can imagine having a mountain road to myself for a few scant minutes, until I run into traffic again, and even then I don't need to hear the tires squeal. But I like sensing that a car is inherently agile, if it's useful to put it in those terms. If it were practical for my needs, I might prefer to drive something like a GTI than my base ICE Macan, because this Macan is already about as substantial as I prefer to experience a car. Do you think a Turbo EV might up the ante with more weight requiring more power and more technology to keep it moving in the right direction? Or under normal driving conditions will it feel nimble but controlled?
EV's are questionable track cars - but they tend to be excellent daily drivers and superior in most aspects compared to the majority of non-EV vehicle's - on track their limitations are easy to observe and discover…
I'm confident the MacanEv will be a hoot to drive given well understood EV characteristics that below absolute performance limits make them excellent for the vast majority of street legal driving tasks - their superior throttle response and ample torque/acceleration make them excellent around town vehicle's vs. the laggy and crappy ICE motors coupled with iffy transmissions.
if you're going for a track car and plan to actually drive it on track check my signature for my recommendation - but I'll drive my EV _TO_ the track to drive my track car _ON_ the track.
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 02-17-2024 at 08:54 PM.
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
EV's handle good far from the limits. They have a low roll center which is great, and with teslas they've done pretty much everything logical to make them handle as good as possible; multi-link rear end, doublewishbone front and the suspension works ok, much better than my sport suspension 335i bmw for example which in theory bmw fanboys probably claim is a drivers car.
However you can't trick the laws of physics and changing the direction of a 4000-6000lb EV really causes problems. The tires just can't handle it on the limits and it ends up feeling heavy as you over load the tires on the outside in a corner. The brakes can't handle it either, not even a track pack plaid tracked buy a guy who owned a performance shop could figure out how to make the brakes work. He gave up and bought a ICE Porsche as a dedicated track car.
Here is an example. One random tricky cornering section at the nurburgring and a Telsa Plaid dips down to 108kph at it's lowest corner speed. A normal 991.2 GT3 dips down to 122kph at it's lowest speed and transitions the section much smoother from shifting the momentum from a right hnader to a left hander. 14kph difference in corner speed is nuts.
I have instructed more than one Telsa on the track (I'm a pca national and FIA licensed instructor) and they feel better than expected in the corners for all that weight, but they just aren't fast in the corners. Tires aren't designed to take a 4000-6000lb car and put it on the edge of grip for spirited/track driving and have the same things happen to them that happen on a car at half the weight. I also don't see how EV's function without a lot of software controlling it, so that takes a lot away from the enjoyment of it as well on the edge as well as the predictability of anyone skilled because you dont know wtf the computers are going to do next. Although it looks like Porsche still lets you turn off a lot of the nannies judging by that video.
So in some respects they can seem better than ICE cars, but I'd classify them as far worse handling.
>>>this only post sounds very competent and not markeetimg biased Thanks
Where i think EV very low CoG shines
is in daily traffic where instant and huge torque (and high-end suspensions...) make my taycan 4s feel like a blade
you think to be there you are already there
Whilst on empty twisty road the ICE fun is unbeatable
What a pleasure to read a comment from someone who knows what he is talking about!
What about driving on public roads? On my luckiest day I can imagine having a mountain road to myself for a few scant minutes, until I run into traffic again, and even then I don't need to hear the tires squeal. But I like sensing that a car is inherently agile, if it's useful to put it in those terms. If it were practical for my needs, I might prefer to drive something like a GTI than my base ICE Macan, because this Macan is already about as substantial as I prefer to experience a car. Do you think a Turbo EV might up the ante with more weight requiring more power and more technology to keep it moving in the right direction? Or under normal driving conditions will it feel nimble but controlled?
My tesla is fun keeping things legal on the street. I know it's a boat, but as long as I keep it half a G away from the limit I never experience the fat pig feel I know is lurking and it feels agile. If Tesla can do it for 50k, Porsche should do better for 100k. I'm not a big fan of EVs because I don't think they are the answer to replacing ICE cars, but I bought one and I'd instantly buy one again if mine got stolen because they make a lot of sense for my specific car requirements. The only reason I'm not interested in a Macan EV is the price doesn't make sense to me.
To answer your question I would hope the macan EV feels better driven at 50-70% of its limit than a ICE Macan, simply because of where the weight is. I would be very surprised if it didn't feel better on the street than the ICE model and don't see how they could possibly make it not better at low G's on the street which is where 99% of people drive thinking they're going 'fast'. What I worry about it is Porsche having to reinvent the wheel when dealing with well north of 5000lbs and trying to make that actually good (that is literally heavier than a f150 truck), but judging by the video it does look like it is balanced so I dont think that's a problem other than for suspension wear and tear/reliability. That employee demoing it in the video is keeping it far away from the limit except for the few times he screws around with it, and you can tell in one shot the car doesn't like what he did and the aids shut it down completely (they cut to another clip a bit too late to hide it), but it still allowed him to get it out of shape to a point and I was quite impressed by the way the car reacted from the in car video of him sliding it around. I also wouldn't care about the turbo model personally. The power delivery in a EV is instant so it's so much faster than just comparing specs on an ICE car that needs to drop a gear or 2 and then get on it, even if the ICE car is faster 0-60. My model 3 is slower than my bmw and it feels way more zippy for acceleration. Definitely not a backroads or track car but no one should be buying any macan or EV for that anyway imo.
I'd personally only buy the turbo if you want crazy acceleration. I personally also think that kind of power of the street is crazy and terrifying, and I've put an open wheel race car around a track faster than the lap record for closed wheel race cars, let alone street races (and eventually put that open wheel car into a cement wall) so it's not like i'm afraid of going fast.
02-16-2024, 09:44 PM
Amazing Macan EV Turbo Handling
