DJ

Hey dude, I like car.
Can't I drove it? Can't I please?
Later, I'll ask again.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
<strong>However, one can choose to leave say 100 ft (or more) of distance in between. If the car in front have problems, there will be plenty of time to react. Great enough distance, there are corner works to help you out.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Ghettoboy, please send my your address so I can send you a golden shovel. Hell, I may send you a backhoe as that will make your digging even easier. I certainly cannot write as well as the esteemed Professor, but I can tell you that you are an ***. Oh wait, I already said that. Anyway, you have been trying to convince us that you are something that you are not for almost a year now. You are not a racer.

Any racer knows that at 100 mph, you are traveling at 146 feet per second. So you think that in a race car, in a race, you will be able to avoid a spill on the racing line (like that term? Well don't get used to as there is no such thing in a real race) in .6 seconds? Wow, you truly are Juan Montoya, what the hell are you doing building a SM car? You should be working with RL to build a CF F1 car. You two will beat them all. And if you meant that you would be able to react to that spill at a DE, just tell me where to send the backhoe.

SundayDriver

Professor, this one is for the kids:

One suit, two suits, red suit, blue suit.
Black Porsche, blue Porsche, new Porsche, new Porsche.
This one has 500 horse. This one is a Turbo Porsche.
Say! what a lot of cars on course.

Some are fast. And some are slow.
I'll thrash them all and let you know.
Here are some I like to slide.
Right to the wall on the driver's side.

My shoes are on. The throttle I mash.
But if I crash, I have no cash.
That is my story and I must dash.

Professor Helmüt Tester

Noobs in awe of me.
Their car, my skills, test the wall.
How fast can I run ?

Anir

Frank,

I can't remember ever reading a more pitiful, egocentric, naive post on Rennlist. No style, and even less substance.

DJ

Anir can't decide.
His feelings is bottled up.
Maybe he like Frank?

JimBob Jumpback

Bubba Frankee drivz fasteder,
we be HPDE'n, Yeehar bubba.
we awl gonna be dien.

Yur Fren,
JimBob

GhettoRacer

hmm, i think i may have confused some people. HPDE definitely isn't racing and I never said it was. However, I was trying to say that some advanced HPDE groups (with high quality drivers) can be extremely closed to racing environment (meanly, near 10/10th, and fairly close traffic).

school is not a race. i never teach that. i never teach that. there is nothing to win, and plenty to lose.

inevitably, as this thread progresses, things are going to get taken more and more out of context...

SundayDriver

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
<strong>[QUOTE]How many different clubs of HPDE/open track events have you run with? The way each club is run can be VASTLY different... the political structure, participant skills/friendness/atmosphere/attitude, official worker skills/friendness/atmosphere/attitude. Don't assume I'm refering to any organization in particular.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"></strong>
I have only run with ~20 different DE groups and have seen huge differences in how they are run. I made no assumption about which club/clubs you were talking about. You have been generalizing and posting your writings about DEs in general from your website - I thought you were very clear that you were not talking about one particular group.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I didn't say ALL HPDE's are close. Some organizations advanced/instructor groups are very close (you said so yourself once). I think you guys are automatically assuming I'm talking about a TQ event, or something. NASA group 4 is often just about racing speed except for contacts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"></strong>
Sorry - I have never equated any DE group with racing - you must have heard that from someone else. But again, you show how little you understand about what the racing environment is. Racing speed has little to do with racing. In fact, the racing environment often results in lower speeds than open lapping or qualifying.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You're sorting of making a point for me. Out of all of my track days driving and instructing (fairly considerable amount of hours if you consider all the hours riding as passenger), I've never hit oil/coolent once at full speed. I've seen the debris flags (seen snakes/rabbits/oil/coolent/cars) on many occasions however (thank you alert corner workers!).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"></strong>
I think it is great that you have never hit oil/coolant and hope you never do. Since you have never experienced this, I have two pieces of advice; 1) Don't ever think that dirt, snakes or rabbits behave anything like oil/coolant on the track, 2) Stop telling people how you expect to control a car on track conditions you have never experienced.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">My bad writing again... I should've say motorsports is inherently dangerous, but the school environment can be made fairly safe.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"></strong>
"Some people have asked me, what makes me think I can properly/safely handle the student car and guarantee nothing can ever go wrong. My answer is, DE is a controlled and safe environment; if it was not a safe environment, we shouldn't be having DE's to begin with. There are some variables such as potentially other cars dropping oil or coolant, or perhaps other dangerous drivers running wild and being hazardous... but these are easily with in the control of the driver if he has a smart head and is fully aware of the surroundings." Your words. It does not look to me like you meant to say DE.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'd like to see that. I work well with majority of students, can't say all of them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"></strong>
OK, you asked so here is one message and the pertinent section of the other:
"Hi Mark,

I have seen your posts on rennlist and think that you instruct for XXX out west. I saw a post from ghettoracer who says he teaches for them. I was planning on attending one of their events, but am pretty concerned about the attitude I see in the posts. This guy talks about driving students cars pretty hard and it seems like all he cares about is what cars he gets to drive. The more he posts, the worse it looks. Is this usual for an instructor with that group? If so I think I need to stay away from them.

Thanks,
XXXXXXX"

"I drive a Viper. At a recent XXX event, I had Frank Lim as my instructor for one session. He spent the entire 30 minute session doing nothing but telling me what a cool car I had, asking how much HP it had and how much torque, then telling me how much he wants to drive a Viper. He kept hinting and hinting but I was not about to let him drive my car, but he asked and I said that I didn't let anyone else drive my car. He kept bugging me through the session and afterwards to drive the car but I was not going to let him. I was pissed that he kept asking to drive it. I was also pissed that he never once gave me a single suggestion or pointer on driving the track. He just went on and on about my car and wanting to drive it."

GhettoRacer

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">"I drive a Viper. At a recent XXX event, I had Frank Lim as my instructor for one session. He spent the entire 30 minute session doing nothing but telling me what a cool car I had, asking how much HP it had and how much torque, then telling me how much he wants to drive a Viper. He kept hinting and hinting but I was not about to let him drive my car, but he asked and I said that I didn't let anyone else drive my car. He kept bugging me through the session and afterwards to drive the car but I was not going to let him. I was pissed that he kept asking to drive it. I was also pissed that he never once gave me a single suggestion or pointer on driving the track. He just went on and on about my car and wanting to drive it."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Weird. I've never asked more than once. If they show the slightest hesitation or the rapport isn't there, I don't even bother. I've instructed VERY few Viper students. Less than 5 in my recollection. I certainly do not recall this particular student. I don't like Viper's in general and especially the offset pedal arrangement. I wouldn't have made that much effort to try to drive anyway car anyway.

This bugs me. I will PM you about this. If this happened, certainly I don't have any recollection of it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">This guy talks about driving students cars pretty hard and it seems like all he cares about is what cars he gets to drive. The more he posts, the worse it looks. Is this usual for an instructor with that group? If so I think I need to stay away from them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Again, I will emphasize... take away the part where I driving students' car, have I done my job as an instructor? I feel that I have. Todd would agree mostly, otherwise how could I've instructed for him for so long? Todd thinks I should never ever ask for a student to drive their car. A lot of the efficiency of the way I help my student out has a lot to do with me helping them learn their car, and that involves me driving their car.

I think he difference between many and I is, I will give you the benefit of doubt. I dunno how good someone is until I see them on track, or I ride with them. They have no idea if I can drive or not. Maybe I'm just all BS, or maybe I'm pretty good. But they don't know for sure.

I've rode along with a lot of TQ instructors and lots of instructor friends.

I'm a nobody. Lots of people have questioned, just what the heck kinda of qualifications do I have to become an instructor? For certain I have not done it the unorthodox way... not through any school or ladder system in particular. But that doesn't mean i dunno what i'm talking about. I've proven my knowledge to (most of) the people I've helped. The result of my students is probably my best qualification.

RSRRacer

Ghetto:

You keep referring to Todd as if his evaluation of your skills promotes you to elevated status. I wonder if your reckless abandon is coming from elsewhere?

I would never drive someone else's car on the track unless I was prepared to write them a check for it in the event of a mishap. Unless you can afford to do the same you should refrain from driving anyone's car.

DJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GhettoRacer:
<strong>Weird. I've never asked more than once. If they show the slightest hesitation or the rapport isn't there, I don't even bother.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Either you don't remember things very clearly, or you are using a non-standard definition of the term "ask". You asked me to drive my Radical three separate times in one day: 1st time, in the drivers meeting, I said, "No"; 2nd time, a few minutes later in the same drivers meeting, but this time you added "how about if I drive it in Ducks-in-a-row?", this time I laughed (incredulous), and said "No"; 3rd time at the end of the day, you ran into the garage, helmet in hand and asked again. Do you remember what I said?

Frank will ask to drive,
and if the answer is "No",
He keeps on asking.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Noobies all, they must succumb,
to my driving talents and requests.
Wad up your fancy car I won't,
"please sir, I promise not to wreck."

But if I do, 'twas was not my fault,
must have been the car or track.
I'm sorry, certainly didn't mean it,
here are your keys, gotta go drive that vette.

JoeLee

Quoted directly from Ghettoracer.com:

"I started road racing in 1996 and have never looked back."

"In 2002 I made big steps towards my dream/goal of becoming a professional racer. I attended a personal calendar year record total of 62 track days."

And here I was thinking that buying/building a race car, getting a competition license and then racing at an AMATEUR level would be just SMALL steps toward becoming a "professional racer".

How sad is that when a friend directed me toward this thread that I felt SO compelled to reply that I joined the Rennlist.

He HPDEs - therefore he races.

GR - thanks for the hours of amusement.

DJ

I am a racer.
To learn, watch me drive your car.
You owe me a grand.