Put it back!
03-05-2007, 11:02 AM
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I had Frank help us out last year at an event. After seeing his public humiliation of a former student, I don't think we can have you back, Frank. You never, EVER tell a student to go faster. You must be patient with a student, as everybody has different comfort zones. And quite honestly, I'm not sure that even *I*, an instructor for over six years, a racer now for almost three years, would want to push a GT2 my first time out. You're talking about a rather expensive car -- not like my Spec Miata or your car (sorry, can't remember the make and model). One thing we discuss heavily at our annual instructor clinic is to NEVER tell a student to speed up. If anything, tell them to slow down.
If you disagree with my philosophy, just remember this -- in all my (okay, it's only six years) years of instructing at many levels of motorsports, I've NEVER had a student spin or go off the track while I was in their car. Why? Because I don't allow them to go over their heads. Telling a student they are too slow will push them. In a Porsche, that's just not acceptable. It's not even acceptable in an old $2000 RX-7 for that matter. Safety is our number one goal at our events -- unsafe instruction is not allowed.
So to sum up, I don't hate you or anything, Frank. But by reading your posts (part of being a track day organizer includes cruising the car forums), I just can't have you instruct with us any longer. That combined with the complaint we had from your student last year is grounds for dismissal from our instruction program.
I would not have publicly posted this normally, folks. But since Frank made his former student feel so bad, I felt that in this one case, it might be justified. And those of you who are instructors or are looking into a motorsports instruction program -- NEVER tell your student to speed up!!! And honestly, there's no reason to ask to drive their car. You can accomplish just as much by having them ride along with you, or engage them in a lead-follow sequence. The ONLY time I've EVER driven a student's car was when they ASKED ME FIRST. And even then, I've refused a few times. I figure if I can't afford to replace the car, I've got no business driving it. Sure, I'm a good driver, but what about the other drivers? What if there is a mechanical failure that forces me into a wreck? Be very wary of driving other folks' cars.
Okay . . . enough of my book. I just hope the instructors viewing this thread learn something. Frank's approach was not what at least our group looks for in an instructor. Any instructor found to be behaving in such a way will be removed from our program. Sorry, Frank. The safety of my drivers is just too important to me.
BW
If you disagree with my philosophy, just remember this -- in all my (okay, it's only six years) years of instructing at many levels of motorsports, I've NEVER had a student spin or go off the track while I was in their car. Why? Because I don't allow them to go over their heads. Telling a student they are too slow will push them. In a Porsche, that's just not acceptable. It's not even acceptable in an old $2000 RX-7 for that matter. Safety is our number one goal at our events -- unsafe instruction is not allowed.
So to sum up, I don't hate you or anything, Frank. But by reading your posts (part of being a track day organizer includes cruising the car forums), I just can't have you instruct with us any longer. That combined with the complaint we had from your student last year is grounds for dismissal from our instruction program.
I would not have publicly posted this normally, folks. But since Frank made his former student feel so bad, I felt that in this one case, it might be justified. And those of you who are instructors or are looking into a motorsports instruction program -- NEVER tell your student to speed up!!! And honestly, there's no reason to ask to drive their car. You can accomplish just as much by having them ride along with you, or engage them in a lead-follow sequence. The ONLY time I've EVER driven a student's car was when they ASKED ME FIRST. And even then, I've refused a few times. I figure if I can't afford to replace the car, I've got no business driving it. Sure, I'm a good driver, but what about the other drivers? What if there is a mechanical failure that forces me into a wreck? Be very wary of driving other folks' cars.
Okay . . . enough of my book. I just hope the instructors viewing this thread learn something. Frank's approach was not what at least our group looks for in an instructor. Any instructor found to be behaving in such a way will be removed from our program. Sorry, Frank. The safety of my drivers is just too important to me.
BW
Beautiful racecar, btw. So clean!
03-05-2007, 11:37 AM
#79
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Originally Posted by Bonster
I had Frank help us out last year at an event. After seeing his public humiliation of a former student, I don't think we can have you back, Frank. You never, EVER tell a student to go faster. You must be patient with a student, as everybody has different comfort zones. And quite honestly, I'm not sure that even *I*, an instructor for over six years, a racer now for almost three years, would want to push a GT2 my first time out. You're talking about a rather expensive car -- not like my Spec Miata or your car (sorry, can't remember the make and model). One thing we discuss heavily at our annual instructor clinic is to NEVER tell a student to speed up. If anything, tell them to slow down.
If you disagree with my philosophy, just remember this -- in all my (okay, it's only six years) years of instructing at many levels of motorsports, I've NEVER had a student spin or go off the track while I was in their car. Why? Because I don't allow them to go over their heads. Telling a student they are too slow will push them. In a Porsche, that's just not acceptable. It's not even acceptable in an old $2000 RX-7 for that matter. Safety is our number one goal at our events -- unsafe instruction is not allowed.
So to sum up, I don't hate you or anything, Frank. But by reading your posts (part of being a track day organizer includes cruising the car forums), I just can't have you instruct with us any longer. That combined with the complaint we had from your student last year is grounds for dismissal from our instruction program.
I would not have publicly posted this normally, folks. But since Frank made his former student feel so bad, I felt that in this one case, it might be justified. And those of you who are instructors or are looking into a motorsports instruction program -- NEVER tell your student to speed up!!! And honestly, there's no reason to ask to drive their car. You can accomplish just as much by having them ride along with you, or engage them in a lead-follow sequence. The ONLY time I've EVER driven a student's car was when they ASKED ME FIRST. And even then, I've refused a few times. I figure if I can't afford to replace the car, I've got no business driving it. Sure, I'm a good driver, but what about the other drivers? What if there is a mechanical failure that forces me into a wreck? Be very wary of driving other folks' cars.
Okay . . . enough of my book. I just hope the instructors viewing this thread learn something. Frank's approach was not what at least our group looks for in an instructor. Any instructor found to be behaving in such a way will be removed from our program. Sorry, Frank. The safety of my drivers is just too important to me.
BW
If you disagree with my philosophy, just remember this -- in all my (okay, it's only six years) years of instructing at many levels of motorsports, I've NEVER had a student spin or go off the track while I was in their car. Why? Because I don't allow them to go over their heads. Telling a student they are too slow will push them. In a Porsche, that's just not acceptable. It's not even acceptable in an old $2000 RX-7 for that matter. Safety is our number one goal at our events -- unsafe instruction is not allowed.
So to sum up, I don't hate you or anything, Frank. But by reading your posts (part of being a track day organizer includes cruising the car forums), I just can't have you instruct with us any longer. That combined with the complaint we had from your student last year is grounds for dismissal from our instruction program.
I would not have publicly posted this normally, folks. But since Frank made his former student feel so bad, I felt that in this one case, it might be justified. And those of you who are instructors or are looking into a motorsports instruction program -- NEVER tell your student to speed up!!! And honestly, there's no reason to ask to drive their car. You can accomplish just as much by having them ride along with you, or engage them in a lead-follow sequence. The ONLY time I've EVER driven a student's car was when they ASKED ME FIRST. And even then, I've refused a few times. I figure if I can't afford to replace the car, I've got no business driving it. Sure, I'm a good driver, but what about the other drivers? What if there is a mechanical failure that forces me into a wreck? Be very wary of driving other folks' cars.
Okay . . . enough of my book. I just hope the instructors viewing this thread learn something. Frank's approach was not what at least our group looks for in an instructor. Any instructor found to be behaving in such a way will be removed from our program. Sorry, Frank. The safety of my drivers is just too important to me.
BW
03-05-2007, 11:55 AM
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Abso-frikking-lutely 100% spot-on. Well said.
This makes what? 25 or 30 groups that have now BANNED that moron with the mango mullet from ever instructing with them again?
This makes what? 25 or 30 groups that have now BANNED that moron with the mango mullet from ever instructing with them again?
Originally Posted by Bonster
I had Frank help us out last year at an event. After seeing his public humiliation of a former student, I don't think we can have you back, Frank. You never, EVER tell a student to go faster. You must be patient with a student, as everybody has different comfort zones. And quite honestly, I'm not sure that even *I*, an instructor for over six years, a racer now for almost three years, would want to push a GT2 my first time out. You're talking about a rather expensive car -- not like my Spec Miata or your car (sorry, can't remember the make and model). One thing we discuss heavily at our annual instructor clinic is to NEVER tell a student to speed up. If anything, tell them to slow down.
If you disagree with my philosophy, just remember this -- in all my (okay, it's only six years) years of instructing at many levels of motorsports, I've NEVER had a student spin or go off the track while I was in their car. Why? Because I don't allow them to go over their heads. Telling a student they are too slow will push them. In a Porsche, that's just not acceptable. It's not even acceptable in an old $2000 RX-7 for that matter. Safety is our number one goal at our events -- unsafe instruction is not allowed.
So to sum up, I don't hate you or anything, Frank. But by reading your posts (part of being a track day organizer includes cruising the car forums), I just can't have you instruct with us any longer. That combined with the complaint we had from your student last year is grounds for dismissal from our instruction program.
I would not have publicly posted this normally, folks. But since Frank made his former student feel so bad, I felt that in this one case, it might be justified. And those of you who are instructors or are looking into a motorsports instruction program -- NEVER tell your student to speed up!!! And honestly, there's no reason to ask to drive their car. You can accomplish just as much by having them ride along with you, or engage them in a lead-follow sequence. The ONLY time I've EVER driven a student's car was when they ASKED ME FIRST. And even then, I've refused a few times. I figure if I can't afford to replace the car, I've got no business driving it. Sure, I'm a good driver, but what about the other drivers? What if there is a mechanical failure that forces me into a wreck? Be very wary of driving other folks' cars.
Okay . . . enough of my book. I just hope the instructors viewing this thread learn something. Frank's approach was not what at least our group looks for in an instructor. Any instructor found to be behaving in such a way will be removed from our program. Sorry, Frank. The safety of my drivers is just too important to me.
BW
If you disagree with my philosophy, just remember this -- in all my (okay, it's only six years) years of instructing at many levels of motorsports, I've NEVER had a student spin or go off the track while I was in their car. Why? Because I don't allow them to go over their heads. Telling a student they are too slow will push them. In a Porsche, that's just not acceptable. It's not even acceptable in an old $2000 RX-7 for that matter. Safety is our number one goal at our events -- unsafe instruction is not allowed.
So to sum up, I don't hate you or anything, Frank. But by reading your posts (part of being a track day organizer includes cruising the car forums), I just can't have you instruct with us any longer. That combined with the complaint we had from your student last year is grounds for dismissal from our instruction program.
I would not have publicly posted this normally, folks. But since Frank made his former student feel so bad, I felt that in this one case, it might be justified. And those of you who are instructors or are looking into a motorsports instruction program -- NEVER tell your student to speed up!!! And honestly, there's no reason to ask to drive their car. You can accomplish just as much by having them ride along with you, or engage them in a lead-follow sequence. The ONLY time I've EVER driven a student's car was when they ASKED ME FIRST. And even then, I've refused a few times. I figure if I can't afford to replace the car, I've got no business driving it. Sure, I'm a good driver, but what about the other drivers? What if there is a mechanical failure that forces me into a wreck? Be very wary of driving other folks' cars.
Okay . . . enough of my book. I just hope the instructors viewing this thread learn something. Frank's approach was not what at least our group looks for in an instructor. Any instructor found to be behaving in such a way will be removed from our program. Sorry, Frank. The safety of my drivers is just too important to me.
BW
03-05-2007, 11:59 AM
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25-30??? Wow, I didn't know we even had that many groups in California. We do have a pretty good record, though -- Frank is only joined by one other former instructor. I hate having to do it, but like I said, my drivers are the most important thing to me. I want them kept safe and happy.
BW
BW
03-05-2007, 12:47 PM
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Agreed, very well thought out and well said!
Unfortunately, Francis The Talking Mule doesn't have any experience with telling the truth that we have ever seen.
Unfortunately, Francis The Talking Mule doesn't have any experience with telling the truth that we have ever seen.
03-05-2007, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cooleyjb
What group are you with . . .
We get a wonderful variety of cars at our events -- Ferraris, Miatas, Porsches, Evos, Corvettes . . . you name it, we probably have it. 
BW
03-05-2007, 05:14 PM
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Hey Bonni, these silly wabbits would be too scared to show up and your events once they find out I instruct for you... hahaha....
03-05-2007, 05:21 PM
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Hahha, sure no problemo. What ever suits your. Out of my SIX years of instructing, I've never had any student damaging their car ever. I've hardly ever had a student spin their car neither. The only guy that spin more than once was this rich guy from LA. He had a 600+ full race 911 TT done up by Vision Motorsports. He got more money than brains... just wouldn't listen
at all. We were @ Streets of Willows and he just kept on spinning and spinning... lol. Since it was one of those $$$ days I just had to put up with it. Hey it's his money, his car... I just take the money and make him happy.
Keep in mind that what happen between me and Colm was quite some time ago in 2003. Since we were letting all of our feelings out, I spoke up finally.
Some students DO SUCK when they don't listen or don't want to communicate... Colm is a great guy, too nice @ track. That's actually what the problem was. And he never let his feelings known. He should've just expressed himself more...
Anyways.... like I said, after six years instructing @ DE, over 152 days, and well over 200 students... it doens't do much for me anymore. So it goes both ways... I'll instruct for ppl that appreciates me. No hard feelings here Bonni. See ya around.
at all. We were @ Streets of Willows and he just kept on spinning and spinning... lol. Since it was one of those $$$ days I just had to put up with it. Hey it's his money, his car... I just take the money and make him happy.
Keep in mind that what happen between me and Colm was quite some time ago in 2003. Since we were letting all of our feelings out, I spoke up finally.
Some students DO SUCK when they don't listen or don't want to communicate... Colm is a great guy, too nice @ track. That's actually what the problem was. And he never let his feelings known. He should've just expressed himself more...
Anyways.... like I said, after six years instructing @ DE, over 152 days, and well over 200 students... it doens't do much for me anymore. So it goes both ways... I'll instruct for ppl that appreciates me. No hard feelings here Bonni. See ya around.
Originally Posted by Bonster
I had Frank help us out last year at an event. After seeing his public humiliation of a former student, I don't think we can have you back, Frank. You never, EVER tell a student to go faster. You must be patient with a student, as everybody has different comfort zones. And quite honestly, I'm not sure that even *I*, an instructor for over six years, a racer now for almost three years, would want to push a GT2 my first time out. You're talking about a rather expensive car -- not like my Spec Miata or your car (sorry, can't remember the make and model). One thing we discuss heavily at our annual instructor clinic is to NEVER tell a student to speed up. If anything, tell them to slow down.
If you disagree with my philosophy, just remember this -- in all my (okay, it's only six years) years of instructing at many levels of motorsports, I've NEVER had a student spin or go off the track while I was in their car. Why? Because I don't allow them to go over their heads. Telling a student they are too slow will push them. In a Porsche, that's just not acceptable. It's not even acceptable in an old $2000 RX-7 for that matter. Safety is our number one goal at our events -- unsafe instruction is not allowed.
So to sum up, I don't hate you or anything, Frank. But by reading your posts (part of being a track day organizer includes cruising the car forums), I just can't have you instruct with us any longer. That combined with the complaint we had from your student last year is grounds for dismissal from our instruction program.
I would not have publicly posted this normally, folks. But since Frank made his former student feel so bad, I felt that in this one case, it might be justified. And those of you who are instructors or are looking into a motorsports instruction program -- NEVER tell your student to speed up!!! And honestly, there's no reason to ask to drive their car. You can accomplish just as much by having them ride along with you, or engage them in a lead-follow sequence. The ONLY time I've EVER driven a student's car was when they ASKED ME FIRST. And even then, I've refused a few times. I figure if I can't afford to replace the car, I've got no business driving it. Sure, I'm a good driver, but what about the other drivers? What if there is a mechanical failure that forces me into a wreck? Be very wary of driving other folks' cars.
Okay . . . enough of my book. I just hope the instructors viewing this thread learn something. Frank's approach was not what at least our group looks for in an instructor. Any instructor found to be behaving in such a way will be removed from our program. Sorry, Frank. The safety of my drivers is just too important to me.
BW
If you disagree with my philosophy, just remember this -- in all my (okay, it's only six years) years of instructing at many levels of motorsports, I've NEVER had a student spin or go off the track while I was in their car. Why? Because I don't allow them to go over their heads. Telling a student they are too slow will push them. In a Porsche, that's just not acceptable. It's not even acceptable in an old $2000 RX-7 for that matter. Safety is our number one goal at our events -- unsafe instruction is not allowed.
So to sum up, I don't hate you or anything, Frank. But by reading your posts (part of being a track day organizer includes cruising the car forums), I just can't have you instruct with us any longer. That combined with the complaint we had from your student last year is grounds for dismissal from our instruction program.
I would not have publicly posted this normally, folks. But since Frank made his former student feel so bad, I felt that in this one case, it might be justified. And those of you who are instructors or are looking into a motorsports instruction program -- NEVER tell your student to speed up!!! And honestly, there's no reason to ask to drive their car. You can accomplish just as much by having them ride along with you, or engage them in a lead-follow sequence. The ONLY time I've EVER driven a student's car was when they ASKED ME FIRST. And even then, I've refused a few times. I figure if I can't afford to replace the car, I've got no business driving it. Sure, I'm a good driver, but what about the other drivers? What if there is a mechanical failure that forces me into a wreck? Be very wary of driving other folks' cars.
Okay . . . enough of my book. I just hope the instructors viewing this thread learn something. Frank's approach was not what at least our group looks for in an instructor. Any instructor found to be behaving in such a way will be removed from our program. Sorry, Frank. The safety of my drivers is just too important to me.
BW
03-05-2007, 05:24 PM
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?? ghetto ricer is back???? 
oh well - good entertainment sometimes......
Fortunately you are not in my area and I don't have to deal with your BS at the track. If you ever do think of coming to the midwest - please do us a favor and don't bother. Thanks!
oh well - good entertainment sometimes......
Fortunately you are not in my area and I don't have to deal with your BS at the track. If you ever do think of coming to the midwest - please do us a favor and don't bother. Thanks!
03-05-2007, 05:25 PM
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PS, I wish I had in car of the speed Colm was going the cork screw. He was doing it about 5 miles or 10 miles per hour, I kid you not. It is a BLIND CORNER! For some super fast cars the pick up mucho speed up the hill from Turn 6 all the way up... they could potentially come up really fast and Colm getting rear ended was not out of the questions. Safety for Colm was my concern and that's why I tell him he needs to go a little faster through the blind section. Every where else if he wanted to turtle around it was okay since people can see him easily. Does this make sense??
03-05-2007, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 2bridges
?? ghetto ricer is back????
oh well - good entertainment sometimes......
Fortunately you are not in my area and I don't have to deal with your BS at the track. If you ever do think of coming to the midwest - please do us a favor and don't bother. Thanks!
oh well - good entertainment sometimes......
Fortunately you are not in my area and I don't have to deal with your BS at the track. If you ever do think of coming to the midwest - please do us a favor and don't bother. Thanks!
Nope, I'm having fun and developing new contacts for business and for racing in Japan... I'm staying to watch the Super GT/JGTC Round 1 race @ Suzuka circuit in March 16/17/18. I'm loving Japan so much for sure I'll move here next year. I'll finish up this year's commitments, the two personal time attack cars (one which I'm taking to Japan in Dec.) and also the two Honda races in Northern California and Southern California...
I'm also training in martial arts... and yesterday I played basketball from 4:30 PM to 10 PM straight... I'm very happy with my fitness progress. Goal is to be able to slam dunk a basketball by year end.