Buteo

My GTS came loaded at nearly 162k msrp. It's a pdk car with all the leather goods. I view the GTS along with all the non GT 991 cars is a superb grand tourer. It's comfy, sporty but not too harsh of a ride. I've got a 6.5 hour trip this weekend that I'm taking in the GTS.

Gear ratios are improved over GT4 although I don't have an issue with GT4.

Exhaust note in gt4 is much louder/sportier. Could have some placebo in which car feels faster (GT4).

engine- they both feel like they produce similar power. The pdk in the GTS definitely helps in the acceleration department. But with someone having no knowledge of the cars and going for a spin in both, they would have a tough time telling which had the stronger power plant.

The GTS is better around town. It's not as low, no carbon bucket seats to fall in/out of. It's inconspicuous, only car guys really notice. The voodoo in the GT4 screams race car, and With that comes lots of waves, pictures, ect.


I think they really do compliment each other quite well. But if I had to pick one it would be the GT4. Partly because I was able to spec it the way I wanted and it's in a fun unique color.

Petevb

Interesting. So taking back seats out of the equation: Manual 991.2 GT3 vs manual 991.2 GTS. Care to speculate on which customers (planned usage) will want to break one way or the other? I'm sold on the GT3 but I'm curious.

I'm also very curious to see how the 991 will stack up to the 997 4.0 in the real world as opposed to on paper. Its shear size has me a bit worried it will feel slightly awkward on tighter roads. Even the GT4 was bigger than I'd like it, but the 4.0 seemed to magically shrink a couple inches.

stout

Should state the ^ rave is about the base .2 Carrera rather than the .2 GTS, and for road work only.

Can't answer your question without driving the 991.2 GT3—or more time with a GTS on more telling roads than those used for the North American launch, which were ultra-smooth to the point of being almost boring...unless you wanted to put your license in serious peril. But my drive in the GTS suggested that it's more GT while the GT3 will almost undoubtedly be sharper in both power curve and handling. In other words, very predictable. As for buyer split, impossible. Track-day regulars should definitely go for the GT3, but we've seen a lot of people who will never put the car on a track go GT3 precisely because it is now very livable and, with PDK (the gearbox I'd choose for a mainly track-day toy) and nose lift, accessible to anyone. Suspect some who go GT3 would be better off in a GTS. Suspect few who go GTS would be better off in a GT3.

For what I know of you, I think you're betting on the right 991.2. However, the GT3 comes in the same envelope as the GTS—and something I really like about the base 991.2 is that it's the narrowest package and still uses the same 305 rear tires (in 20s, anyway). When I drove the car in Tenerife, a (far) better driver in a GT3 RS up a closed rally stage had nothing for the base 991.2 Carrera despite several obvious advantages. There's a video floating around on pca.org. The 3.0's turbo torque went a long way, but the key for me was how fun the basic 991.2 was. Yes, it sits a bit high, but the chassis is very "happy," neat, and generally dialed. Again, for road work rather than autocross or track days—and why I suspect some who go GT3 or GTS would actually be happier and have more fun in a plain Carrera...which is probably rarer! Still not sure I've driven a 991 I like better than the 997 4.0. Actually, pretty sure I haven't. The only 911 I like better is CTR001, but it's hard to compare them. Pity so many 997 4.0s aren't driven, hard or at all. Forget the engine. The chassis was a masterpiece.

It's interesting to look at size comparisons between the 982, 991.2, and 991.2 GTS below. We all say we want a smaller car, but few "hardcore" drivers are interested in the narrow-body 991s. Everyone wants a GT3 or GTS. The RS is even bigger—and feels like it on a back road. I have to check myself, too, as I tend to think of the base 991 as a bigger car than the base 997—so why not go with the "best" 991? But, while the wheelbase grew by four inches, Porsche's specs suggest the base 991 is 0.1-inch wider and 1.3 inches longer than the base 997.

RDM2418

I traded in my GT4 about 5 months after I got it (car. white, PCCB, LWB) for an UV RS. I sold the RS for a 997.2 RS. I missed it and just picked up another one in light green. I have a .2 GT3 coming in Nov/Dec and I'm on the fence whether I'll keep the GT4 or the RS.

Leaning towards GT4 because of lower running costs, warranty, and the 997.2 RS doesn't feel that much faster on the track (it probably would if I were a faster driver). Huge difference with 991 RS. The RS is definitely takes more work to drive (and is more an an event at start up with the puff of white smoke and engine that sounds like a screwdriver is rattling around).

Photo of light green at MSR Houston. I have several months to think about it, but I guess to answer the question, it would be another GT car.

tcsracing1

Good point.
All new 911 are indeed turbo.

That being said, the new 991.2 Porsches are really good and worth taking a look.

ML///

I'm struggling with the decision around the GT4. The car feels great, handles wonderfully, but the motor just doesn't do enough for me. Out of the box, I want the motor to sing to me. This one is okay, but its not special enough. I will say friends keep telling me that I want a 991 chassis. I'm patiently waiting to see what happens. In the meantime, I'll still enjoy the car.

d00d

I've added IPD plenum, 82mm TB, Dundon race headers and tune.
These reversible modifications really wake the engine up, the exhaust note is incredible, but before I felt like you do.
There's some more goodies coming from Dundon too;
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...th-dundon.html

Viperguy324

I just had a 991.2 to drive around for a week. Chassis is nice, great accel (PDK), boring motor... horrible sound.


No chance would I own one. It's too limp.

user1029

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY I MEAN MY FRIEND'S MONEY

user1029

that's what my friend has, it has completely transformed his car - really shows how much evil Porsche has gimped the GT4 engine from the factory

Petevb

I tend to think Porsche is missing an opportunity by not putting bigger, more responsive power into the more accessible and exploitable narrow body packages. That's what I'd originally hoped the R would be. Moving the grip to power ratio in that direction combined with very progressive over the limit rubber/ behaviour is intoxicating, and part of the reason I still prefer the Spyder over the GT4 for pure road work on tighter twisties in particular.

On tight roads fully exploiting the Uber stick of an R compound shod widebody just seems... irresponsible... where in a narrower car even with sticky rubber (think Hankook RS-3 over the limit behavior) you can get moving around without feeling like a psychopath. And take that same car to the autocross and you'll be grinning like a madman- who cares if you're off half a second?

I kinda doubt the base Carrera has the responsiveness or progressiveness to be that car, though I could be wrong. Certainly it doesn't have the power- I was dreaming of 500 hp in a narrow body, 19" wheels w/ 295 hankooks. The GT3 has half of that package, but the Carrara almost sounds like it's got much of the other half. If they figure out how to turn the wick up that could get interesting...

stout

+1

Love looking at wide 911s, but love driving narrow ones on small roads.

Think I agree on Spyder. I've been asking myself if I don't love R-compound rubber on the street—I like a summer tire's "sharpness and progressive limit approach" if that makes sense. Typing that, I am not sure it does. Need to noodle that a bit more, as there are of course great R-compounds with really nice fall-off as well as really bad summer tires that feel like they have square shoulders.

And this is why I dig Petevb. It really is time for a lunch or beer again.

You really need to drive one—the chassis definitely does. The trick is finding a Carrera or S to drive with as little "tech" as possible. PDK doesn't dim the bright and keen chassis, but the handling options do in a hurry. There is just something very "happy" about the narrow 991.2. Hard to describe it, but the "keeness" adds up to driving fun (and more speed than you expect in a Carrera). You'll feel it rounding the first onramp, as my friend Alex did.

That's the handling. The engine is another matter. Yes, there is a bit of "crispness" lost on throttle pickup. And yes, there is some lag if you catch the 3.0 out down low, but that's irrelevant in any real driving. BUT, the NA flat sixes have always suffered a different kind of lag, and that's "torque lag." While "big-displacement" sixes (4.0-4.2) go some way toward mitigating that, turbocharging or, better yet, supercharging are the only ways I've seen to truly fix it. But most of us prefer the characteristics of an NA engine. What's interesting about the 3.0 is that the engineers worked to make it "feel" NA, and by and large accomplished just that—but you get real torque down low.

And here's the next piece of that puzzle. All of the hard work has been done to build a pretty neat hot rod out of a narrow 991.2. Lightening the car wouldn't be tricky, or illegal. 305/20s are factory fitted in the rear, as are 295s. So no issue there. Turbos are plumbed in a way no aftermarket company can or will do it, intercoolers are in place, it's smog legal, etc. I suspect there will come a point when airflow to and from the intercoolers become an issue, but also suspect getting to big power wouldn't be hard. Whether that can be done without ruining the satisfying and fun power curves might be another matter.

And time with the Yellow Bird suggests there is a way to make the 3.0 sound insane. It probably includes muffler delete, or some form of it, as in the Abarth and CTR (which had a muffler you could see through, from one tailpipe to the other). I actually liked the sound of the waste gates in the CTR, overlaid and hinting in on a 3.0 RSR soundtrack from time to time, and Porsche left just enough turbo sounds in the 991.2. You hear them clearly with the windows down, and not at all when the windows are up. Kinda neat. Would be interesting to hot rod a narrow 991.2 intelligently, but I am not sure you'd beat the pleasure "sweet spot" that exists in box-stock form. We're all asking for a smaller 911, and saying we don't need more power but want more experience—but no one is buying a 911 that fits that description…

neanicu

I drive sport cars because they provoke emotions. The less emotions the less I'm interested. Might as well be a self driving car,I wouldn't care. I've learned in my limited time and experience on this Earth,that NA high revving engines,great sounding,lightweight cars,mechanical feeling,with good brakes and suspension provoke the most emotions. Not speed...emotions. I'll take 500 pounds less over having 100 HP more,if that makes sense...
Each car has its fair share of advantages and emotion provoking stages : take the 991.2 Carrera turbo in comparison with the GT4. The GT4 creates more emotions,so there's no comparison in my view regarding all the other advantages the Carrera might have.
The only new car that might provide more emotions than the GT4 will be the 991.2 GT3. Once they go Turbo or hybrid it's backwards for me : 997s,older cars and custom built hot rods.

stout

I hear you, and I think we're cut from the same cloth—but for one "detail": It isn't the method that interests me so much as the outcome (what you're talking about). I've driven plenty of NA cars that don't elicit much in the way of emotion, and then some FI cars that sure did. The Ruf CTR, early JCW Mini, modern Abarth, 991.2 Carrera come to mind, and there are surely others.

Totally agree on "speed," btw. I think the worst combo is a truly fast car that isn't much fun, while the best combo is a car that feels exciting without putting your license (or worse) at ridiculous risk. GT4 does well here. So does a simple 991.2. But a 991.1 Turbo—or 918—does not...

As always, YMMV.

mooty

" while the best combo is a car that feels exciting without putting your license (or worse) at ridiculous risk."

pete, just suck it up and drive the 914.
my 72 is currently my favorite car. i swear i was going warp speed, look down... oh, ok.... 65mph....