Anidjare

I found a 2011 GT3RS that is tempting the hell out of me, but it's got over 23k miles. I have 4500 miles on my GT4 so I'm not afraid to drive it but the idea of going with that old of a car that I want to hold onto for a long time is making me a little uneasy.

Also, not sure about trading in vs private sale.

Any thoughts?

vantage

23k miles is nothing, assuming proper maintenance. That's about the same rate at which you are accruing miles on your GT4. They are cars not eggs. You worry about the 2011 car with 2k miles that has not been driven enough to know whether it has issues.

If you like it, go for it.

golfnutintib

they are worth zero once the odometer hits 30,000 miles

so beware!!!!!!!!

Anidjare

Thanks for confirming my concerns.

tasman

If the car checks out go for it. Would worry more about a car hardly ever driven as long as the 23000 miler has had appropriate maintenance and care. Good luck with your decision

Dr.Bill

The only problem is, right now the 997 GT3RS cars are commanding a substantial premium. I suspect that once the new version comes out, that may change.

Depends on what you want. For me, the GT4 is more fun on the street. (and a far better street car - clutch and suspension are way more friendly) You can also utilize far more of its potential. The 997.2 3RS is better in almost every other way, but needs to be in the upper rev range to come fully alive. I would not be concerned in the least about the mileage. It was barely used - that's about 3300 miles a year which is old lady driving to church mileage. I would want a clean PPI with DME, but that's it.

You will get more money selling your GT4 privately. If your state allows sales tax credit, it may help even things out a bit.

Petevb

All miles are not created equal. If it was tracked hard for all 23k of those it would be coming up on its third engine rebuild if it were a Cup car. In normal street use it's just getting broken in, and the fact that you want it as a keeper is a good thing- with proper maintenance it'll last forever.

I'd want to know what kind of use the car has seen. Look for signs. How old are the tires (older is better in this case). Is it on its first set of brake rotors? Etc...

DK7

When clean get it!
I would trade the GT4 for every 997 GT3 variant.

exacc

Having both cars, I would say that if I had to choose one, I would sell the GT4 before I would consider selling the RS. HOWEVER....it really depends on what you are looking for. The RS is really more special, the sound, the feel, the way it looks, and everything about it...but it is impossible to daily drive.

The GT4 is an awesome do-it-all car. Can be driven daily in reasonable comfort, comfortable enough to bring the wife on long drives, and yet also capable on track! So as a package, it is very hard to beat...and that in itself is special too!

I am sure most people here have daily drivers too, so if forced to decide on one car...it would be the RS.

spiller

RS all day every day. Get yourself a Camry to drive to work and on family trips and be happy that you have one of the greatest driver's cars ever to grace the road sitting in the garage waiting for you when you get home.

ShakeNBake

Having had both a .2RS and GT4, I miss the RS more than I thought I would. I don't miss the shocking running costs of the RS on the track though (my first p-car). Fun car to track when it was new, but spec-miata valued shop visits all the time take the fun out of it. You're better off with a 996 cup car if what you want is a more analog track car. Can't beat an RS for its special sensory attack, even at low speeds, a keeper if you just want a weekend fun car for the backroads.

vantage

Pete, out of curiosity, do the street Metzgers need rebuilds after that many track miles or are you just giving the Cup motor as an example of why all miles are not equal?

Also out of curiosity, what made the running costs so high in particular? I assume it was more than just standard consumables.

ShakeNBake

Clutch assembly is a weak point, so it barfs throwout bearings/forks and pressure plates. If you're unlucky, that can cause a lot of other issues. Transmission has a couple weak points, needs building every once in a while. Needs a real diff, and until you put a guards in you'll be replacing diffs a lot. Centerlocks, hubs, and uprights have timeouts. Headers crack, mufflers crack. Brake calipers need rebuilding a lot...Engine is pretty solid unless you win the lottery and eat an intake flap.

If you treat it like a race car, it need TLC like a racecar. If you own it and put 1000 miles on it and then sell it, you'll think it's bullet proof. Own it and enjoy it and you should spend the maint dollars on it to keep it running well and not a mess for the next owner.

Petevb

Street engines with identical use should get rebuilds as well, but the schedule is a little fuzzy depending.

Quite a few push the Cup engine rebuild schedule well past 100 hours. There is a performance drop-off as parts go out of adjustment (solid lifters) and wear (worn rings, etc). There are also many parts that continue to work just fine but require time change due to fatigue cycles (pistons, rods).

The Cup engine uses mainly parts that are either identical or very similar to the street engines, though the Cup simplifies by dropping hydraulic valve adjusters, variocam, variable intake manifold, emissions equipment, etc. Thus while the Cup rebuild schedule is both conserative and rigged (Motorsport is very much a profit center) there is no fundamental reason why Cup aluminum pistons and titanium rods, shared with the street car in the Mezger days and both made from metals with a finite fatigue life, should last for xxx hours while the street versions last forever. The difference is use: running at 7k rpm produces just 60% of the stress of 9k rpm, and hence a nearly infinite fatigue life. It's the last couple hundred RPM that does all the damage, and the Cup in race use goes there constantly.

As you move "up" the Porsche race car ladder the engines diverge more and more from the street cars, RPMs climb and change intervals get shorter. Through World Challenge and then RSR you get a smaller, lighter 2 ring piston (instead of 3 in the Cup and street car) which allows higher rpm and produces less friction but which starts leaking past the rings and sacrifing power at very low hours. That's how you get down into the 30 hour rebuilds of LeMans cars- those parts are very different. The Cup on the other hand uses enough common parts that the time change parts schedule in particular provides a rough indication of how things will wear.

Unfortunately the street 3.8 RS has a couple known weak spots that the Cup doesn't share. The hydraulic lifters, engine oil pump and hydraulic cam adjusters are all different from the Cups and prone to early failure in hard track use. Racing regularly I'd time change or preemptively fix those. So while the bottom ends are similarly durable on balance I'd say the top end and ancillaries of the street engine need more fundamental attention than the Cup in Motorsport's use. I'd want to get those items addressed before 100 (race pace) hours in a 3.8 RS.

tstafford

Great post ^^^^