Tom@TPC Racing

You're welcome.

Sorry to sound like a broken record to those who have the DSC and have been enjoying it, but here it is again for those who are now discovering DSC and how it works differently from PASM- The factory PASM have two modes, the modes are labelled as Normal and Sport. If you think of the damping force in a range of 1% to 100%, with 1% being the softest and 100% being the stiffest, now think of Normal mode having a command range of 20-30%, Sport mode having a range of 70-80%. So PASM does do what the factory literature saids that it does but with a small command range. And there's a big range between the two modes that's not used so in many driving situation on street and track, the two factory modes are either too soft or too stiff, or in some cases the driver wants less than 20% on rough roads, or wants more than 80% to keep the front from diving too much during high speed hard braking on a race track. This is evident on any race track that has straight line speed of over 120mph then braking down to 50mph. Having the full range of command relative to current load by using DSC makes the car more versatile and enjoyable in mixed driving conditions and ever changing conditions(and loads). Over the past few years DSC has successfully improve the stability and versatility of many PASM-equipped Porsche cars as well as other major brands of American and Japanese sports cars. Due to the extremely positive user experiences there's even a big demand for retro-fitting DSC system in cars that didn't come from the factory with electronic suspension. As far as I am concerned, DSC is not a fad, it is an evolution of technology like carburetor to fuel injection, eyeglasses to contact lenses... We are in the beginning years of this evolution.


Compensates for lateral only but the command range doesn't make an appreciable difference in each mode. Also, in addition to commanding the four electronic shocks PASM commands the dynamic engine mounts as well. The factory PASM mapping of the dynamic engine mounts during a fast slalom situation the mounts go from stiff to soft to stiff as the lateral g-force sweeps across the g-table. This causes unwanted momentary rear weight transfer as the engine/transmission momentarily shifts within the body of the car. DSC commands the dynamic engine mounts to stay stiff in Sport mode to prevent this. And of course, the dynamic engine mount commands are programmable to the users personal preference with DSC.

All of the above info can be found in various sections of this forum and others along with unbiased user experiences. From setting qualifying pole positions to winning IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge races, to improving stability thus increasing confidence to drive harder thus improving lap times of track drivers, to making the street ride more supple over rough roads, to winning SEMA Global awards, DSC is legit.

Tom@TPC Racing

Our default answer for any non-factory items is yes it can void factory warranty at the discretion of the dealer service/factory warranty team. DSC won't show a fault when read by factory system tester. If a technician is specifically trying to read it, it won't read because it uses a different computer language to communicate, again won't show a fault. A technician would have to be specially looking for it or trying to read it in order to know its there.

The unit is easy to swap in and out by the user.

Tom@TPC Racing

My pleasure. Yes it is easy. I timed myself without any talking and did the install in under 3 minutes.

I was answering the questions in order and realized that I answered your questions and thigos's question at the same time in post #16, second paragraph.

trackjunky

Tom,
I'm picking up my DSC controller from 3R racing here in Denver tomorrow. From talking with Aaron at 3R, he told me that the controller firmware is optimized for your setup. Currently, I have 991 cup arms up front, cup toe links in the rear and -3.2 camber front and -2.7 camber rear. bars are set to the middle settings and the car was nicely balanced, my guess is due to the wider front track width due to the 991 cup LCA's. Will I need to make a firmware adjustment or any other suspension adjustments when I track the car with your DSC controller?

johnr265

Do you think that using the wider range of damping could cause premature wear to the struts? In general, mechanical items used to their extremes tend to wear faster. Even if the answer is yes, it's not the end of the world, just curious.

Tom@TPC Racing

Cool. 3R Racing is among the top race shops in the US.


The firmware contains instructions for the system's functions, sort of like a person's schedule to follow of where and when to be but not so much the details of what to do when at that place at that time. The software is used for the tuning, the details of what to do at that place at that time in my analogy. Any custom tuning is done via DSC tuning software. Yes, it is true that the standard software(we refer to as the map or the file as the written and saved software) that comes with the DSC is developed on our cars with our setup to produce optimum performance. Going back to 3R Racing as a top race shop, I know that 3R knows what we know about setting up race/track cars, thus, we feel that 3R's mechanical setup for optimal performance shouldn't be too different than ours. The same standard DSC map can be used on such optimized setup range. But of course, any customizing can be made via DSC tuning software for specific driver preferences. While we don't expect every driver in the world to have exact same preferences and drive on same type of roads as we do but our standard DSC map has proven to more than satisfy 90% of DSC users. For the other 10% of the users, support is provided to guide their way to satisfaction. Basically is this, as long as the mechanical setup of a given car is not out of whack from the norm then our standard DSC map will be a noticeable improvement. But let's say that on a given car the alignment is way out of whack, while DSC alone won't substitute for a proper alignment, DSC can help to bad-aid the situation by making a badly aligned car better by managing the damper force to counter dynamic weight distribution better.


I would say no, at first. Try our standard map first. Please remember DSC damping is active and it is load dependent. Just the simple fact that with DSC during hard braking the front dampers(aka shocks or coilovers) go to 100% stiffness on compression damping value is far more than what stock PASM does. Since you can't get more than 100% out of your any damper, this is as good as it can be without buying a set of Tractive dampers which have greater damping range by a few hundred more psi. Another fact is DSC is truly active to changing loads(i.e. G force, brake line pressure, suspension travel speed changes), the driver can intuitively "manipulate" the damping force by applying the brake pedal at a slightly different rate or turning the steering wheel slight different rate, all based on how the software is written(the sum of the written software is what we refer to as the map or the file). Again, making changes to customize your map is easy, or user can give me useful feedback and I'll write and email a custom map. Sorry for too much info, but I am just super thrilled that this technology is available now!

Tom@TPC Racing

This is a popular and good question. Thanks for asking. Even though we've answered this same question in the past in the 997, GT2/3, and Turbo forums, it is good to have an up to date answer. The up to date answer is still the same as before, which is at best it is a zero-sum game. In stock PASM Normal mode the shocks move up/down more and at higher velocity (expressed in inches of movement per second), in stock PASM Sport mode its pretty stiff and the internal seals have to hold higher pressure to resist movement. With DSC, in either DSC modes the pressure on the internal seals are varying to the loads and so is velocities. In some driving conditions less pressure on the seals is better while in some other conditions higher pressure to reduce seal movement is better. It is immeasurable to us to see if the sum of the life of the seals is better to work with static or dynamic manner. Zero-sum game.

The internal electronic actuator functions the same fuel injectors in an engine. With DSC the actuator movements vary like fuel injectors do to varying engine speed and loads. If anything, varying loads produces less heat internally than steady state PASM Normal mode. It takes higher electrical current to command softer damping. Higher current = more heat. With varying commands from DSC the shock internals get a chance to cool off whereas in PASM Normal mode the higher electrical current is constant.

For reference, we started testing DSC in our shop cars on PASM shocks since 2010. Each car had over 30K combined street + track miles with zero shock failure. Since then we have sold A LOT of DSC's and have not had any user report a shock failure as a result of using DSC both for street and track. One particular local customer I will reference is a track driver who shares his 600+hp 997 Turbo track car(with full race aero, race setup, Hoosier tires) with his wife. They've been tracking this car with DSC + Bilstein B16 Damptronic(same internal actuator and seals as PASM, PASM is made by Bilstein for Porsche) for 5 years, average of 20 track day a year with two drivers, each driver running average of two hours each day(four 30-minute run session for each driver). That adds up to 400 track hours! In 2016 we replaced the B16's with Tractive DDA coilovers not because the B16's had any leak nor failure. They were replaced because the customer felt the car's suspension got softer over time(as all shocks do with so many track hours) and he felt it was time for upgrading to Tractive shocks to get more speed out of the car. The old shocks went to someone for weekend street use.

JRide247

In my experience DSC improved smoothness of Chicago roads, can't wait to try it on the track next.

4carl

Is there a return policy? I.E. 30days? thanks carl

Warwick Morris

I ordered a unit online last night from Dundon.....the only place I could quickly find with an international freight calculator in the checkout. If anyone a Dundon is listening I tried to email info@....and it bounced twice. I was trying to say I had a late build 2016 GT4 with Australian delivery. The unit fits both 991 and 981 and just wanted to make sure I got the correct software map delivered with my unit....Invoice 1132 paid.

Yargk

I was always interested in what the factory setting is on the gt4. How much stiffer is the PASM sport than normal? I know you said 20-30 and 70-80%, however, I'm not sure how percentage maps to Newtons/(m/s). Do you know the N/(m/s) for sport and normal, front and rear for the stock PASM on the gt4? Thanks!

Bardman

I asked the same via PM, the answer was no.

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

Got it! working on the bounce that's odd... You can always get a hold of me directly. jamie @ dundonmotorsports.com

We're big proponents of the DSC Sport and the Tractive DDA struts as game changing products for traction and ride quality improvements. Both our 991 GT3 and 981 GT4 have our power mods on them and have difficulty finding traction in the rainy season up here. With the DSC modules installed on their factory settings we've all noticed an astounding amount of improved grip. Areas and turns where you couldn't get the power down around town, now you can easily roll into the power without the traction control coming on. Some pretty slick stuff!

Anyone wanting a DSC Sport controller or Tractive setup feel free to call us.

As TPC has said, PASM is a static system, it changes between 2 modes with the sport chassis button. DSC Sport makes it an active system that is constantly monitoring the state of the chassis sensors and making changes to the dampening rates accordingly. For those looking for more Tractive dampers provide even better and more precise control. I'll be installing Tractive on my 991 GT3 mid season and giving feedback (still rainy and cold here...)

Jamie

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

Give us a call, or PM we're so confident in the technology that we'll happily take the system back within 30 days if you don't like it...

Is a pretty easy resell as long as the packaging is intact as well!

*(shipping costs not included...)

PistolPete

I'm heading down to the Deals Gap, NC and The Tail of the Dragon with a 9 car group for a week of exploring the roads down there. On our way down, we stopped by TPC Racing where we met with Mike Levitas and Tom Chan who graciously provided us with a DSC module for the ultimate twisty road test.

We have two Agate Grey GT4's. One will have the DSC and the other remains bone stock. Unfortunately the cars are not exactly identical with OEM equipment.

Stock GT4 (mine)
-Bucket seats. They may affect how much road vibration is felt by the butt dyno
-well worn Cup 2 tires (16,000 miles) that were driven for 500 miles in 28 degree F temps. Probably has internal cracks all over the sidewalls.
-a beaten up 16,000 miles on the chassis!

DSC GT4
-Sofas (LOL)
-Dunlop tires
-Garage Queen C&C Special at 5,000 miles and no scuffs on the front spoiler

Control GT4
-Buckets
-Dunlops
-Extra special garage queen C&C winner at 2500 miles but smashed his front spoiler on a parking berm today. He is still drying his tears...

[/url] by Peter Moy, on Flickr