stout

Now this is a field trip concept I can approve of.

Just came up for air after sending the first issue to the printer, so I'm game. Tell me when.




BTW: Drove the silver "SW4" with LWF/clutch (loved it), diff (loved it), revised gears (better 3-4-5, but hampered by stock 1-2 and no fix for 6), headers (loved them), and tune (nice work)—but not the intake upgrade. The 3.8 in that setup was nice, but it seemed like it still wasn't breathing like it wants to. Maybe the intake is the fix. Even so, it was one of SW's better cars this early in the trajectory, so I suspect we may see something sensational as they keep playing. They set themselves a very high bar with the 3.9. The 4.1 is "better," but the 3.9 is like the CTR1—magical.

d00d

Start with a 2.7L 981 manual gearbox, it has a lower 2nd;
2013_Boxster_Specifications_Final.pdf

stout

Nah, no flames. Good discussion.

I can agree with you about the gearing—though the steering doesn't bother me and the rear visibility definitely doesn't bother me. I feel the positives of the GT4 greatly outweigh its negatives...probably why it won eCOTY along with so many other comparison tests (and very nearly won tCOTY!). I suspect the two biggest downsides—as I see them: the gearing and getting all the 3.8 has to offer—will be comprehensively solved in time.

I also have to wonder what the second GT4 might be like. The first one was very, very good out of the box. Think back to the 996 GT3 and then look at the progression through the last 997 RS.

stout

Matt at GT might have some interesting feedback on strength of gears. As in, do the 2.7 gears have the same strength as the S/GTS/GT4 gears?

(Cue 3rd gear strength joke in 5-4-3...)

matttheboatman

Many smart replies here, so Pete, I will just add my thoughts from a regular street / track guy.

Re: 6th, I AGREE is not tall enough for efficient highway speeds in US. I was surprised as the 981 Cayman S and GTS are super-efficient on the highway.

Re: 2nd - definately too tall for a spirited street drive - I agree. But, I have a love affair with the tall but "torquey" 2nd on the track. I do understand the disappointment of not being able to row thru the gears on your way up to highway speeds on the street. But out on the circuit, 2nd gear transforms the car into a super responsive, throw-it-around toy that can throttle steer around a wicked curve or power through series of curves. It allows you to power out of some 50 - 65 mph turns that other cars, including P cars, just can't do.

Perhaps my love of 2nd gear is really more adaptation than appreciation. The tall 2nd allows me to manage the car's known weakness of understeer and a soft front end.

Try it - if you can (safely) drive around in 2nd gear while laying off the brakes, you might fall in love with that too darn tall 2nd gear. And, on the track, if you are exiting a turn below 5K in 3rd you need to drop down a gear. I think you will like the result.

Beantown Kman

There is evidently a wide range of opinions here re the car's gearing. I lean toward agreeing with Stout on all the points he made in his first post. But I believe the gearing becomes much less of a problem once you install the intake and exhausts mods plus software that many of us have already done. Those cost me $7,000 and I feel that was money well spent. Pete is also hampered with California's 91 octane fuel. I'd be fine with a taller 6th gear.

Even though I may be less unhappy with my GT4 than Stout, I would not hesitate to change the gearing in my car provided that also involved a new R & P. A new 3, 4 and 5 simply won't remove the curse of the existing 2nd gear.

Beantown Kman

Yes, I agree that a tall 2nd gear in this gear feels sweet and very forgiving on the track. But with different gearing you'd simply be praising 3rd gear instead of 2nd.

matttheboatman

Good point!

Yargk

Just another data point: One can compare a very well driven GT4 clubsport with a very well driven GT4 street car. The clubsport weighs less and has much "better" gearing. Sean Mcalister in the clubsport hits 128 in 5th gear before braking for turn 2 at Laguna, Randy Pobst in a street GT4 hits 127 in 4th. Both runs start at about 40 mph in 2nd gear. No difference in it.

Crazy Eddie

Couldn't agree more
Sorry Mike

mooty

i have guards gears 3-6
oem 2nd is fine. just done shift so much. keep it in 2nd.
perhaps that's why i adapted to pdk well, i don't shift much. rarely do i use oem 4th gear at all.

that's true with my gt3 as well
if u are not bouncing off redline why shift. the sound is why i drive.

3-5 refpgeared is nirvana.

oe6 too tall.
i have guards used it once or twice at goto jail speed.

pete use 2&3 only. u will love it more.

less shift is better

no one say ps rs gears too,e know peninsula in norcal knows skyline. i do the entire skyline, stage road, tunitas, la honda in 2nd gear.

faster
better
louder
scream baby scream.....

Mike J

Nope, I have zero regrets on the decision, none. Look, I have spent time in various cars, including a 997.2 GT3 RS on the road and track, as well as other GT3's, and based my decision on how I felt with the GT4 in comparision with those cars.

When you are driving the RS for example, it positively feels ALIVE - lots of great vibration and feedback through your hands and butt, rougher idle that sets the stage for an engine that just taunts you to be pushed, and pushed hard. Fantastic gearing! You know you have lots to learn with that calibre of car and can be well challenged for years to come.

The GT4 - well not so much. Too smooth, not the same amount of feedback, the engine is no GT3 engine. Sure it's cheaper, but I decided if I was going to move I would rather go GT3 than GT4. Personal decision, and like I said, no regrets at all.

Anyways, I am not bashing the GT4, I am just saying it's not for me.

Cheers,

Mike

smmmurf

The tactile sensations given by the 7.2 RS are very satisfying on the street and at the track. That car also makes great noises, further amplified when running to 8,000+ RPM alongside the pit wall. I'm thankful for the track days and street miles that I've experienced in it.

The RS also has a visibility-hampering wing on the back. I'd still regret passing on the GT4 even with an RS in the garage. The GT4's stiffer, mid-engine chassis and smooth drivetrain offer greater precision, greater flexibility, and similar performance without the extra vibration and effort. It's a different flavor and certainly worth having in the collection.

Manifold

I find that the GT4 lacks punch on the road, even in comparison with cars that have less power such as the Cayman R and 997.1 C2S. It's a bit disappointing, but not a deal breaker. I attribute this partly to the longish gearing for the lower gears, and partly to the torque curve of the engine.

These issues are less noticeable on the track, where the gearing seems to make more sense, and the engine revs are kept higher. There may be room to optimize the gearing further for the track (which is somewhat track-dependant), but I don't think that would drop the lap time much. With a good setup, the GT4 is already not far off the pace of the 991 GT3, and I attribute most of that delta to the power difference (the delta feels bigger than it actually is, which may be a good or bad thing, depending on your perspective).

BillC3

I agree with Pete -- the gearing is just too tall for gears 1-5. A slightly taller 6th would be nice, but not required.

The current gearing might not be too much of a handicap on the track, but it is a HUGE hindrance in autocross. Most of the autocrosses around here top out around 50-55 MPH -- too tall for 1st, but way down on the powerband in 2nd. A 2nd gear that tops out around 65-70 MPH would be ideal, and would probably help on the track, too.

I would definitely be willing to buy a second transmission that had improved gearing (not really interested in re-gearing my one-and-only trans, especially while under warranty). I was previously interested in Guard's new gearing, but lost interest when it became known that it didn't address 2nd gear, which is my biggest complaint. Probably the easiest fix would be a new, higher-ratio R&P and a taller 6th, but Matt has repeatedly discussed the difficulty & expense in making new R&P gears that will last, which probably takes that option off the table.

Of course, another 75 ft-lbs of torque above 2000 RPM would also "fix" the gearing issue....