strut tower failure
03-22-2019, 11:55 AM
#826
Rennlist Member
Guys there is a big difference in cost and ease of repair between the coolant pipes, yes I had 2 6GT3 repaired, and finding a shop to do a correct repair on a shock tower failure. It’s nice the 991.1 engine has a 10 year warrenty but do you want to own one or even try to sell one towards the end of the 10 years. I thought long and hard about buying a GT4 for a new TT and track car but ultimately didn’t because of the Al strut towers, got a 987.2 CS instead.
All that being said I will own a 997.2 GT3 one day warts and all.
Peter
All that being said I will own a 997.2 GT3 one day warts and all.
Peter
03-22-2019, 12:05 PM
#827
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ontario & California
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Received 51 Likes
on
29 Posts
allow me to retort to your witty response... I fail to see where Porsche has even announced a 718 Spyder. Oh you mean the testing cars and development cars? Last time I checked, those aren’t for sale. So to date, no Spyders with GT suspensions have been sold.
No one said we shouldn’t discuss these failures. But people like you are making it sound like they’re just melting while they are sitting there.
And I’m here because this is the GT4 forum and I own a GT4. You’re here because you’re neither a GT4 owner or buying one. Oh, wait... I get the feeling you’re just like a lot of people on rennlist these days. ‘Oh I would totally buy this GT3 if it had illuminated sills’ Or ‘I would totally buy this GT4 if it was for sale last week’. I think I have a better chance of taking over Canada with a high school marching band behind me, playing ‘we willl rock you’, versus you buying a Spyder.
Okay, your band is going to need snow boots, toques, & mittens, when the Germans tried that on the eastern front it didn't go well.
03-22-2019, 01:15 PM
#828
Rennlist Member
Guys there is a big difference in cost and ease of repair between the coolant pipes, yes I had 2 6GT3 repaired, and finding a shop to do a correct repair on a shock tower failure. It’s nice the 991.1 engine has a 10 year warrenty but do you want to own one or even try to sell one towards the end of the 10 years. I thought long and hard about buying a GT4 for a new TT and track car but ultimately didn’t because of the Al strut towers, got a 987.2 CS instead.
All that being said I will own a 997.2 GT3 one day warts and all.
Peter
All that being said I will own a 997.2 GT3 one day warts and all.
Peter
Look no one is excusing Porsche about the strut towers but some forum trolls keep posting this sky is falling drama about it. Not one strut tower failure has led to any crashes. Most were caused by crashes. On the other hand, several crashes were caused by 997 coolant dumps.
03-22-2019, 01:34 PM
#829
03-22-2019, 02:30 PM
#830
Rennlist Member
allow me to retort to your witty response... I fail to see where Porsche has even announced a 718 Spyder. Oh you mean the testing cars and development cars? Last time I checked, those aren’t for sale. So to date, no Spyders with GT suspensions have been sold.
No one said we shouldn’t discuss these failures. But people like you are making it sound like they’re just melting while they are sitting there.
And I’m here because this is the GT4 forum and I own a GT4. You’re here because you’re neither a GT4 owner or buying one. Oh, wait... I get the feeling you’re just like a lot of people on rennlist these days. ‘Oh I would totally buy this GT3 if it had illuminated sills’ Or ‘I would totally buy this GT4 if it was for sale last week’. I think I have a better chance of taking over Canada with a high school marching band behind me, playing ‘we willl rock you’, versus you buying a Spyder.
People looking to buy these cars have a valid concern about this issue. I WANT to buy this car. I have a $2500 deposit down for it and am second on the list, I literally can't do anything more to prove my intent to purchase at this point until the order books are actually open.
You can tell yourself that it's not a problem and drive your GT4 every day, assess the risk as you see fit. It is proven that there is a chance of this happening, and we don't know what that is. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance. For me learning about this issue has given me pause and made me reassess where to spend money. I'm following this thread because I'm looking if there is a aftermarket fix, design change, tech bulletin, something from Porsche acknowledging this at all. Something to give me cover to just go ahead and buy it without that gnawing feeling at the back of my head that "Hey there's a 1% chance your strut tower will collapse on any random impact".
Yes every car has design flaws, what matters is the seriousness of the flaw if it fails and the available mitigations. I also have an E46 M3, it has plenty of flaws but you can preemptively fix them. The concern here is that there is currently no truly viable way to reinforce that strut tower. The plates don't seem to stop it at all, just protect your hood. If there was an actual fix I would just budget that in the price and handle it once I got the car.
03-22-2019, 02:39 PM
#831
Rennlist Member
I don't understand your hostility. Is researching 100k+ purchases not a thing for you? Just close your eyes and jump head first?
People looking to buy these cars have a valid concern about this issue. I WANT to buy this car. I have a $2500 deposit down for it and am second on the list, I literally can't do anything more to prove my intent to purchase at this point until the order books are actually open.
You can tell yourself that it's not a problem and drive your GT4 every day, assess the risk as you see fit. It is proven that there is a chance of this happening, and we don't know what that is. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance. For me learning about this issue has given me pause and made me reassess where to spend money. I'm following this thread because I'm looking if there is a aftermarket fix, design change, tech bulletin, something from Porsche acknowledging this at all. Something to give me cover to just go ahead and buy it without that gnawing feeling at the back of my head that "Hey there's a 1% chance your strut tower will collapse on any random impact".
Yes every car has design flaws, what matters is the seriousness of the flaw if it fails and the available mitigations. I also have an E46 M3, it has plenty of flaws but you can preemptively fix them. The concern here is that there is currently no truly viable way to reinforce that strut tower. The plates don't seem to stop it at all, just protect your hood. If there was an actual fix I would just budget that in the price and handle it once I got the car.
People looking to buy these cars have a valid concern about this issue. I WANT to buy this car. I have a $2500 deposit down for it and am second on the list, I literally can't do anything more to prove my intent to purchase at this point until the order books are actually open.
You can tell yourself that it's not a problem and drive your GT4 every day, assess the risk as you see fit. It is proven that there is a chance of this happening, and we don't know what that is. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance. For me learning about this issue has given me pause and made me reassess where to spend money. I'm following this thread because I'm looking if there is a aftermarket fix, design change, tech bulletin, something from Porsche acknowledging this at all. Something to give me cover to just go ahead and buy it without that gnawing feeling at the back of my head that "Hey there's a 1% chance your strut tower will collapse on any random impact".
Yes every car has design flaws, what matters is the seriousness of the flaw if it fails and the available mitigations. I also have an E46 M3, it has plenty of flaws but you can preemptively fix them. The concern here is that there is currently no truly viable way to reinforce that strut tower. The plates don't seem to stop it at all, just protect your hood. If there was an actual fix I would just budget that in the price and handle it once I got the car.
There have been no 718 Spyder allocations released by Porsche. So you posting you have one is a flat out BS. I’d like to see your order and deposit.
Last edited by Five12Free; 03-23-2019 at 05:42 AM.
03-22-2019, 02:47 PM
#832
Every car has issues. How about those coolant lines, 2nd gear synchros made of butter, potato chip pressure plates, and lsds good for just a few days at the track before wearing into open diffs on the 997.2 GT3? I don't own a 997.2 GT3 but I read about all those on the internet sooooooo....
Sorry I don't mean to bag the 997, I spent a day in a 997 last week and it was awesome, would still buy despite those known issues if I had more garage, and $$$ for repairs
just trying to make the point that most cars have their strengths and weaknesses and all cars have issues, especially cars pushing the performance envelope. If we prioritized reliability we'd be on the Toyota Corolla forums... And I bet people are bitching there about something too... Maybe mismatching beige trim pieces...
I definitely want to find a solution that could help reinforce the front strut towers but the problem hasn't been as prevalent as the 3rd gear issue so far (and Porsche is covering that) so I do think people need to chill just a bit. Fwiw, I hear the rear shock towers are reinforced and supposedly there's a reinforcement plate riveted in there. I can see rivets on the outside of the shock tower but the undercoating makes it tough to see what's actually going on from under the car. If someone has access to a porsche parts or body shop manual maybe there's something we could learn from how the rear shock towers are setup?
Sorry I don't mean to bag the 997, I spent a day in a 997 last week and it was awesome, would still buy despite those known issues if I had more garage, and $$$ for repairs
just trying to make the point that most cars have their strengths and weaknesses and all cars have issues, especially cars pushing the performance envelope. If we prioritized reliability we'd be on the Toyota Corolla forums... And I bet people are bitching there about something too... Maybe mismatching beige trim pieces...I definitely want to find a solution that could help reinforce the front strut towers but the problem hasn't been as prevalent as the 3rd gear issue so far (and Porsche is covering that) so I do think people need to chill just a bit. Fwiw, I hear the rear shock towers are reinforced and supposedly there's a reinforcement plate riveted in there. I can see rivets on the outside of the shock tower but the undercoating makes it tough to see what's actually going on from under the car. If someone has access to a porsche parts or body shop manual maybe there's something we could learn from how the rear shock towers are setup?
Guys there is a big difference in cost and ease of repair between the coolant pipes, yes I had 2 6GT3 repaired, and finding a shop to do a correct repair on a shock tower failure. It’s nice the 991.1 engine has a 10 year warrenty but do you want to own one or even try to sell one towards the end of the 10 years. I thought long and hard about buying a GT4 for a new TT and track car but ultimately didn’t because of the Al strut towers, got a 987.2 CS instead.
All that being said I will own a 997.2 GT3 one day warts and all.
Peter
All that being said I will own a 997.2 GT3 one day warts and all.
Peter
03-22-2019, 03:31 PM
#833
03-22-2019, 07:16 PM
#834
Rennlist Member
tell that to all the poor guys who had to fix their cars because a 997 dumped coolant on the track in front of him.
Look no one is excusing Porsche about the strut towers but some forum trolls keep posting this sky is falling drama about it. Not one strut tower failure has led to any crashes. Most were caused by crashes. On the other hand, several crashes were caused by 997 coolant dumps.
True sort of in the strut tower failures which came 1st. Hit curb, pothole, loose control and crash with failure. At this time there is nothing proactive that can be done to prevent the possible failure, or just drive like a Granny. With the 996/997 GT3/Turbo you spend a few thousand dollars and it becomes a non issue. Personally I have seen more damage caused by vettes blowing motors and oiling down the track.
And no the sky isn’t falling with the poorly designed strut towers but it is something to consider when purchasing a GT4.
Peter
03-22-2019, 07:57 PM
#835
For the aeronautical engineers out there. Can methods used in detecting metal fatigue in airplanes be used for early detection. Not sure about the feasibility.
Any known ST failures for other car manufactures?
Any known ST failures for other car manufactures?
03-22-2019, 09:54 PM
#837
Three Wheelin'
I don't understand your hostility. Is researching 100k+ purchases not a thing for you? Just close your eyes and jump head first?
People looking to buy these cars have a valid concern about this issue. I WANT to buy this car. I have a $2500 deposit down for it and am second on the list, I literally can't do anything more to prove my intent to purchase at this point until the order books are actually open.
You can tell yourself that it's not a problem and drive your GT4 every day, assess the risk as you see fit. It is proven that there is a chance of this happening, and we don't know what that is. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance. For me learning about this issue has given me pause and made me reassess where to spend money. I'm following this thread because I'm looking if there is a aftermarket fix, design change, tech bulletin, something from Porsche acknowledging this at all. Something to give me cover to just go ahead and buy it without that gnawing feeling at the back of my head that "Hey there's a 1% chance your strut tower will collapse on any random impact".
Yes every car has design flaws, what matters is the seriousness of the flaw if it fails and the available mitigations. I also have an E46 M3, it has plenty of flaws but you can preemptively fix them. The concern here is that there is currently no truly viable way to reinforce that strut tower. The plates don't seem to stop it at all, just protect your hood. If there was an actual fix I would just budget that in the price and handle it once I got the car.
People looking to buy these cars have a valid concern about this issue. I WANT to buy this car. I have a $2500 deposit down for it and am second on the list, I literally can't do anything more to prove my intent to purchase at this point until the order books are actually open.
You can tell yourself that it's not a problem and drive your GT4 every day, assess the risk as you see fit. It is proven that there is a chance of this happening, and we don't know what that is. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance. For me learning about this issue has given me pause and made me reassess where to spend money. I'm following this thread because I'm looking if there is a aftermarket fix, design change, tech bulletin, something from Porsche acknowledging this at all. Something to give me cover to just go ahead and buy it without that gnawing feeling at the back of my head that "Hey there's a 1% chance your strut tower will collapse on any random impact".
Yes every car has design flaws, what matters is the seriousness of the flaw if it fails and the available mitigations. I also have an E46 M3, it has plenty of flaws but you can preemptively fix them. The concern here is that there is currently no truly viable way to reinforce that strut tower. The plates don't seem to stop it at all, just protect your hood. If there was an actual fix I would just budget that in the price and handle it once I got the car.
E46 also has weak strut mounts (hence the oem off road top hat reinforcements BMW offers for the E46) and weak rear subframe and we can talk about vanos and rod bearing issues too. How many people had to lunch their s54s before we figured out how to maintain them so I could spend thousands on tightening vanos bolts in my s54 and replacing bearings as preventative maintenance? How about that cryogenically treated vanos hub
The GT4 is literally a new car compared to the 997 and e46. This thread is super valuable for people that want to find a solution, the buying/value/fear mongering is peanut gallery noise and doesn't actually help make any progress in this topic, at all. I'm sure we'll figure it out just like people did for all the other issues.
For shoppers comparing this to an older car, if this concerns you and is preventing you from buying the car, why do you keep posting? Don't buy the car, come back to the forum in a decade after the GT4 owners and support community has figured all this out for you just like the 997 and e46....
03-22-2019, 10:09 PM
#838
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by 85Gold
True sort of in the strut tower failures which came 1st. Hit curb, pothole, loose control and crash with failure. At this time there is nothing proactive that can be done to prevent the possible failure...
And no the sky isn’t falling with the poorly designed strut towers but it is something to consider when purchasing a GT4.
And no the sky isn’t falling with the poorly designed strut towers but it is something to consider when purchasing a GT4.
...and if by reading a couple pages of this thread, you can’t make an informed descision then I don’t know what to say. This thread doesn’t need to be buried in BS like the 718 GT4 thread where people won’t read anything but the last post and then post a photo from last year saying ‘new pics’.
The GT4 is literally a new car compared to the 997 and e46. This thread is super valuable for people that want to find a solution, the buying/value/fear mongering is peanut gallery noise and doesn't actually help make any progress in this topic, at all. I'm sure we'll figure it out just like people did for all the other issues.
For shoppers comparing this to an older car, if this concerns you and is preventing you from buying the car, why do you keep posting? Don't buy the car, come back to the forum in a decade after the GT4 owners and support community has figured all this out for you just like the 997 and e46....
For shoppers comparing this to an older car, if this concerns you and is preventing you from buying the car, why do you keep posting? Don't buy the car, come back to the forum in a decade after the GT4 owners and support community has figured all this out for you just like the 997 and e46....
Simple: the problem is documented, if you aren’t trying to help fix, don’t post.
Last edited by Five12Free; 03-23-2019 at 05:27 AM.
03-23-2019, 11:09 AM
#839
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: On a pygmy pony over by the dental floss bush
Posts: 3,281
Received 605 Likes
on
414 Posts
As I posted in other threads in this forum when I owned my GT4, the car has a range of acceptable ride height per the OEM specifications and cars are delivered at varying settings within the range (or out of range). My car when delivered was sitting higher than the upper acceptable range of the spec. I took it to the dealer and had them set it within OEM specs under warranty. So my car had been lowered, but was still within OEM spec. I never had a strut tower failure, sold the car with 3,800 miles to another RL member. I don't think we know enough ride height details on the cars that have had the strut tower failure. What was their ride height set at?
Earlier in this thread Joe Weinstein's car had the failure, and his had been lowered, but IIRC he didn't record the ride height that resulted from that lowering effort. Joe auto-crossed his car but the failure occurred on the highway when he hit a dip in the road.
03-23-2019, 04:30 PM
#840
E46 also has weak strut mounts (hence the oem off road top hat reinforcements BMW offers for the E46) and weak rear subframe and we can talk about vanos and rod bearing issues too. How many people had to lunch their s54s before we figured out how to maintain them so I could spend thousands on tightening vanos bolts in my s54 and replacing bearings as preventative maintenance? How about that cryogenically treated vanos hub
The GT4 is literally a new car compared to the 997 and e46. This thread is super valuable for people that want to find a solution, the buying/value/fear mongering is peanut gallery noise and doesn't actually help make any progress in this topic, at all. I'm sure we'll figure it out just like people did for all the other issues.
For shoppers comparing this to an older car, if this concerns you and is preventing you from buying the car, why do you keep posting? Don't buy the car, come back to the forum in a decade after the GT4 owners and support community has figured all this out for you just like the 997 and e46....
The GT4 is literally a new car compared to the 997 and e46. This thread is super valuable for people that want to find a solution, the buying/value/fear mongering is peanut gallery noise and doesn't actually help make any progress in this topic, at all. I'm sure we'll figure it out just like people did for all the other issues.
For shoppers comparing this to an older car, if this concerns you and is preventing you from buying the car, why do you keep posting? Don't buy the car, come back to the forum in a decade after the GT4 owners and support community has figured all this out for you just like the 997 and e46....
Excellent post!
