Salter Aero Wing Supports
08-09-2016, 12:50 PM
#17
I myself track and compete and will be utilizing this in my competitions.
Track tested by professional drivers, these supports provide just enough added downforce in the rear to aid cornering without upsetting stock aerodynamics intended by Porsche.
I don't think that a butt dyno measurement by an unknown professional driver qualifies as verifiable data.
It may actually decrease downforce.
From https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9432...uprights.html;
No mention of increased angle adjustment, and if there were it may look odd at that setting;
http://salteraero.com/product/gt4-wing-support/
Also, a higher wing won't be able to take advantage of air flow over the rear fenders;
Attachment 1078727
__________________
2016 white/black GT4;
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9321...e-journal.html
2008 white/amaretto S8
From https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9432...uprights.html;
No mention of increased angle adjustment, and if there were it may look odd at that setting;
http://salteraero.com/product/gt4-wing-support/
Also, a higher wing won't be able to take advantage of air flow over the rear fenders;
Attachment 1078727
__________________
2016 white/black GT4;
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9321...e-journal.html
2008 white/amaretto S8
The OEM wing angle and its adjustability is maintained.
That and the butt dyno reference from above definitely leaves a lot open to interpretation.
I'll venture a "guess" that the aero on a rear engined GT3 just might be different then the GT4's? You did mention some key words though: "wind tunnel testing"
08-09-2016, 01:09 PM
#18
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08-09-2016, 01:44 PM
#19
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Exactly. It's a no-brainer that moving the wing to a different location within the airstream will affect the aerodynamics. Seems like false, unsubstantiated claims to imply or state that it is not.
08-09-2016, 05:19 PM
#20
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You lot crack me up. A bunch of keyboard experts.
What would it take to satisfy you? Wind tunnel data, is it? Well exactly how much is that gonna cost? Let's say it's $10k/day. You'll need a good baseline, plus testing the new parts. Then you'll want to try various tweaks. So let's say you spend two days in a wind tunnel. That's $20k. Plus you'll need to hire an expert, have your designer on-site, maybe another guy to do the wrenching. You'll need a car, of course. And wind tunnels aren't on every corner, like Starbucks, so you'll need to travel to reach it, not to mention food and lodging. Let's say all that was another $10k. Now you're in for $30k. How many do you expect to sell? I'll be generous and say 50. $30k/50 units = $600/unit sold just to recoup that money. And you haven't even factored in the actual cost of design and manufacture.
Obviously these are just guesstimates, but I'll bet I'm on the low end of real numbers. I work in design and manufacture, so I think I understand this better than most.
That's a hell of a lot of money to risk on a niche product. And don't even get me started about some of you asking for them to test with other vendors parts to balance the front end.
I'll just wrap up by saying I've already purchased a set. I'm very much looking forward to putting them on my car.
What would it take to satisfy you? Wind tunnel data, is it? Well exactly how much is that gonna cost? Let's say it's $10k/day. You'll need a good baseline, plus testing the new parts. Then you'll want to try various tweaks. So let's say you spend two days in a wind tunnel. That's $20k. Plus you'll need to hire an expert, have your designer on-site, maybe another guy to do the wrenching. You'll need a car, of course. And wind tunnels aren't on every corner, like Starbucks, so you'll need to travel to reach it, not to mention food and lodging. Let's say all that was another $10k. Now you're in for $30k. How many do you expect to sell? I'll be generous and say 50. $30k/50 units = $600/unit sold just to recoup that money. And you haven't even factored in the actual cost of design and manufacture.
Obviously these are just guesstimates, but I'll bet I'm on the low end of real numbers. I work in design and manufacture, so I think I understand this better than most.
That's a hell of a lot of money to risk on a niche product. And don't even get me started about some of you asking for them to test with other vendors parts to balance the front end.
I'll just wrap up by saying I've already purchased a set. I'm very much looking forward to putting them on my car.
08-09-2016, 07:55 PM
#21
"You lot crack me up. A bunch of keyboard experts. " I might qualify, designed, built, and installed a splitter on my MGB race car in the 70s and made it to the SCCA Runoffs. Did aero design on my 987.1 Cayman and have AiM data to prove it worked at Watkins Glen.
08-09-2016, 09:25 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
You lot crack me up. A bunch of keyboard experts.
What would it take to satisfy you? Wind tunnel data, is it? Well exactly how much is that gonna cost? Let's say it's $10k/day. You'll need a good baseline, plus testing the new parts. Then you'll want to try various tweaks. So let's say you spend two days in a wind tunnel. That's $20k. Plus you'll need to hire an expert, have your designer on-site, maybe another guy to do the wrenching. You'll need a car, of course. And wind tunnels aren't on every corner, like Starbucks, so you'll need to travel to reach it, not to mention food and lodging. Let's say all that was another $10k. Now you're in for $30k. How many do you expect to sell? I'll be generous and say 50. $30k/50 units = $600/unit sold just to recoup that money. And you haven't even factored in the actual cost of design and manufacture.
Obviously these are just guesstimates, but I'll bet I'm on the low end of real numbers. I work in design and manufacture, so I think I understand this better than most.
That's a hell of a lot of money to risk on a niche product. And don't even get me started about some of you asking for them to test with other vendors parts to balance the front end.
I'll just wrap up by saying I've already purchased a set. I'm very much looking forward to putting them on my car.
What would it take to satisfy you? Wind tunnel data, is it? Well exactly how much is that gonna cost? Let's say it's $10k/day. You'll need a good baseline, plus testing the new parts. Then you'll want to try various tweaks. So let's say you spend two days in a wind tunnel. That's $20k. Plus you'll need to hire an expert, have your designer on-site, maybe another guy to do the wrenching. You'll need a car, of course. And wind tunnels aren't on every corner, like Starbucks, so you'll need to travel to reach it, not to mention food and lodging. Let's say all that was another $10k. Now you're in for $30k. How many do you expect to sell? I'll be generous and say 50. $30k/50 units = $600/unit sold just to recoup that money. And you haven't even factored in the actual cost of design and manufacture.
Obviously these are just guesstimates, but I'll bet I'm on the low end of real numbers. I work in design and manufacture, so I think I understand this better than most.
That's a hell of a lot of money to risk on a niche product. And don't even get me started about some of you asking for them to test with other vendors parts to balance the front end.
I'll just wrap up by saying I've already purchased a set. I'm very much looking forward to putting them on my car.
They're asking $2K a set with no apparent testing! I'm not sure you made your point of justifying theircost with the above analysis.
If you're impartial enough about your purchase to give an honest report as to the benefits (or lack there of) I'd be interested in hearing it.
I have a feeling there will never be wind tunnel testing and if these are beneficial (based on multiple user experience) other mfgs will copy the design and the price will end up below $500.
08-09-2016, 10:00 PM
#23
You're estimating a cost of $600 a unit WITH wind tunnel testing.
They're asking $2K a set with no apparent testing! I'm not sure you made your point of justifying theircost with the above analysis.
If you're impartial enough about your purchase to give an honest report as to the benefits (or lack there of) I'd be interested in hearing it.
I have a feeling there will never be wind tunnel testing and if these are beneficial (based on multiple user experience) other mfgs will copy the design and the price will end up below $500.
They're asking $2K a set with no apparent testing! I'm not sure you made your point of justifying theircost with the above analysis.
If you're impartial enough about your purchase to give an honest report as to the benefits (or lack there of) I'd be interested in hearing it.
I have a feeling there will never be wind tunnel testing and if these are beneficial (based on multiple user experience) other mfgs will copy the design and the price will end up below $500.
Link
I'm also sure that there are more than enough of us with actual design experience, including testing of said designs, that it doesn't need to be used as an argument to dispel posts.
08-09-2016, 10:24 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Aerodynamics aside, of all the aftermarket supports I consider these the best looking.
These supports need wider functional RS vented fenders to balance the higher wing visually.
Without those, the factory supports make the overall design with the wing placement the best in my opinion.
These supports need wider functional RS vented fenders to balance the higher wing visually.
Without those, the factory supports make the overall design with the wing placement the best in my opinion.
Last edited by d00d; 10-28-2017 at 06:55 PM.
08-09-2016, 11:20 PM
#27
Hey it's within everyone's right to question and our amendment to provide speech/input. Like you, I was intrigued and definitely appreciative of the visual appeal. Performance wise I will compete my GT4 so I am open to the idea of my oem aero dynamics components getting "upgraded".
Salter Aero is company that is open and friendly. Guys feel free to reach out to them. I brought to their attention the concern over aerodynamic impacts and their design intentions and below is the reposponse and data they provided:
"The below image is a representation of air flow based on our 3D CFD results. At top speed there is an approximate increase of 10% in down force. Air speed travel across the top of the GT4 body was also improved at 6% measured at 145 KPH.
These results were obtained by 3D scanning the entire vehicle and simulating air flow using computational fluid dynamics software"
Salter Aero is company that is open and friendly. Guys feel free to reach out to them. I brought to their attention the concern over aerodynamic impacts and their design intentions and below is the reposponse and data they provided:
"The below image is a representation of air flow based on our 3D CFD results. At top speed there is an approximate increase of 10% in down force. Air speed travel across the top of the GT4 body was also improved at 6% measured at 145 KPH.
These results were obtained by 3D scanning the entire vehicle and simulating air flow using computational fluid dynamics software"
Track tested by professional drivers, these supports provide just enough added downforce in the rear to aid cornering without upsetting stock aerodynamics intended by Porsche.
by showing that their butt dynos versus their CFD analysis show that there is an effect not intended by Porsche.
08-09-2016, 11:57 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
