Looking to get in to a GT4, coming from BMW M3's
11-01-2018, 12:34 PM
#1
Looking to get in to a GT4, coming from BMW M3's
This is a cross post. I accidental posted it in the 981 forum first. My apologizes.
I'm fairly new here, been lurking for a while, mostly in the classifieds. As implied in the title, I've been a BMW guy up until now. I'm in my early 50's and have had M3's and 3 Series since age 30. I mostly leased them from new, but for the last 6 years my last two M3's were my 2nd car and served as HPDE/RV. I just sold my latest one, a nice, fairly low mile e46 M3, and am in the process of getting enough funds liquid to buy a GT4. Should be ready to purchase by end of the year. Ultimately I want a 991 GT3, but since the spouse insists on me not financing the car, and I am not very patient, I figured I will do a 1-2 year stint in a GT4 to work my way up. I don't really care if that costs me an extra $10k in taxes and depreciation, I just feel it would be more fun that way, and the GT4 is a bit more forgiving in handling and affordable with a MT for sure. Coming from front engine all my life, it need to work my way to the engine being on the wrong end anyway ;-)
It looks like there are a lot of GT4's available currently, but I need to know what to look for as far as CPO, warranty and stuff like that. I'm also curious to hear what you guys think about the market conditions? To me it seems like it has gotten soft, but many still are asking dream prices. I mean if there are 70 listed on any of the major used sites, and have been there for months, then common wisdom would suggest that the prices should be lowered. Is it bad timing to buy now with the 718 GT4 on the horizon? Not that I want one of those, but I don't want to lose a ton on a 981 GT4. I basically want to park my money for a while, drive a little bit with it, and then trade up.
FWIW, I have driven my buddy's fully loaded (CCB) 981S several times, off and on the track, with and without the CCB brakes. So I have a pretty good idea what to expect from a Cayman.
I'm fairly new here, been lurking for a while, mostly in the classifieds. As implied in the title, I've been a BMW guy up until now. I'm in my early 50's and have had M3's and 3 Series since age 30. I mostly leased them from new, but for the last 6 years my last two M3's were my 2nd car and served as HPDE/RV. I just sold my latest one, a nice, fairly low mile e46 M3, and am in the process of getting enough funds liquid to buy a GT4. Should be ready to purchase by end of the year. Ultimately I want a 991 GT3, but since the spouse insists on me not financing the car, and I am not very patient, I figured I will do a 1-2 year stint in a GT4 to work my way up. I don't really care if that costs me an extra $10k in taxes and depreciation, I just feel it would be more fun that way, and the GT4 is a bit more forgiving in handling and affordable with a MT for sure. Coming from front engine all my life, it need to work my way to the engine being on the wrong end anyway ;-)
It looks like there are a lot of GT4's available currently, but I need to know what to look for as far as CPO, warranty and stuff like that. I'm also curious to hear what you guys think about the market conditions? To me it seems like it has gotten soft, but many still are asking dream prices. I mean if there are 70 listed on any of the major used sites, and have been there for months, then common wisdom would suggest that the prices should be lowered. Is it bad timing to buy now with the 718 GT4 on the horizon? Not that I want one of those, but I don't want to lose a ton on a 981 GT4. I basically want to park my money for a while, drive a little bit with it, and then trade up.
FWIW, I have driven my buddy's fully loaded (CCB) 981S several times, off and on the track, with and without the CCB brakes. So I have a pretty good idea what to expect from a Cayman.
11-01-2018, 01:07 PM
#2
Drifting
If you had have been watching GT4 prices for longer I think that you would have seen that they have certainly fallen. They’re still holding strong value relative to their msrp, but they’re way down. They were above msrp for a long time.
Depending upon your market, they might still be above msrp. Here in Canada they’re still +10-15%. Where prices will go from here is anyone’s guess. Maybe they’ll soften more with the new car. It’s sound will be important and that’s controversial right now. The car itself does not appear to be a material upgrade from the 981 - a refresh at best with a X51 thrown at it. Maybe the new car will have a very high price increase as the 981 was discussed for a long time as being underpriced relative to what it could have been - and pricing of those cars held at significant premiums with high ADMs for a long time.
You will have to decide if the pricing risk ahead of the new car is something that you’re comfortable taking. I felt that it was so I bought in the spring as I could find exactly zero cars from any brand that were better value even against a 15% premium to Msrp (Canada) car. My feeling is that pricing of the current car is not likely to move materially in either direction but don’t discount the possibility that it goes up if the new car sounds boring and/or if it’s pricing increases more than single digits.
And you might also determine that theres no reason to own a 991GT3 after being in the GT4 - personally I don’t feel that the experience would be any different for me - and my stock GT4 sounds better!
Depending upon your market, they might still be above msrp. Here in Canada they’re still +10-15%. Where prices will go from here is anyone’s guess. Maybe they’ll soften more with the new car. It’s sound will be important and that’s controversial right now. The car itself does not appear to be a material upgrade from the 981 - a refresh at best with a X51 thrown at it. Maybe the new car will have a very high price increase as the 981 was discussed for a long time as being underpriced relative to what it could have been - and pricing of those cars held at significant premiums with high ADMs for a long time.
You will have to decide if the pricing risk ahead of the new car is something that you’re comfortable taking. I felt that it was so I bought in the spring as I could find exactly zero cars from any brand that were better value even against a 15% premium to Msrp (Canada) car. My feeling is that pricing of the current car is not likely to move materially in either direction but don’t discount the possibility that it goes up if the new car sounds boring and/or if it’s pricing increases more than single digits.
And you might also determine that theres no reason to own a 991GT3 after being in the GT4 - personally I don’t feel that the experience would be any different for me - and my stock GT4 sounds better!
11-01-2018, 01:56 PM
#3
If you had have been watching GT4 prices for longer I think that you would have seen that they have certainly fallen. They’re still holding strong value relative to their msrp, but they’re way down. They were above msrp for a long time.
Depending upon your market, they might still be above msrp. Here in Canada they’re still +10-15%. Where prices will go from here is anyone’s guess. Maybe they’ll soften more with the new car. It’s sound will be important and that’s controversial right now. The car itself does not appear to be a material upgrade from the 981 - a refresh at best with a X51 thrown at it. Maybe the new car will have a very high price increase as the 981 was discussed for a long time as being underpriced relative to what it could have been - and pricing of those cars held at significant premiums with high ADMs for a long time.
You will have to decide if the pricing risk ahead of the new car is something that you’re comfortable taking. I felt that it was so I bought in the spring as I could find exactly zero cars from any brand that were better value even against a 15% premium to Msrp (Canada) car. My feeling is that pricing of the current car is not likely to move materially in either direction but don’t discount the possibility that it goes up if the new car sounds boring and/or if it’s pricing increases more than single digits.
And you might also determine that theres no reason to own a 991GT3 after being in the GT4 - personally I don’t feel that the experience would be any different for me - and my stock GT4 sounds better!
Depending upon your market, they might still be above msrp. Here in Canada they’re still +10-15%. Where prices will go from here is anyone’s guess. Maybe they’ll soften more with the new car. It’s sound will be important and that’s controversial right now. The car itself does not appear to be a material upgrade from the 981 - a refresh at best with a X51 thrown at it. Maybe the new car will have a very high price increase as the 981 was discussed for a long time as being underpriced relative to what it could have been - and pricing of those cars held at significant premiums with high ADMs for a long time.
You will have to decide if the pricing risk ahead of the new car is something that you’re comfortable taking. I felt that it was so I bought in the spring as I could find exactly zero cars from any brand that were better value even against a 15% premium to Msrp (Canada) car. My feeling is that pricing of the current car is not likely to move materially in either direction but don’t discount the possibility that it goes up if the new car sounds boring and/or if it’s pricing increases more than single digits.
And you might also determine that theres no reason to own a 991GT3 after being in the GT4 - personally I don’t feel that the experience would be any different for me - and my stock GT4 sounds better!
11-01-2018, 02:31 PM
#4
The market has gotten softer, but the number of cars that meet a person's particular spec is also shrinking. If you will be happy with any old gt4, it's a great time.
I think you absolutely have to divide the cars into two half-markets, those with the seats you want and those with the other kind of seats. Most cars have LWBs so if you want the sofas you have a very very limited number of cars to choose from.
Beyond that, you probably want a specific color, and probably want to buy from a specific region of the country near to you. So now the number of available cars is much smaller.
If you want specific options, and especially for rarer options, the market is smaller yet again.
Most cars have reasonable mileage so that isn't much of a factor that narrows the selection.
I missed the last chance to buy a new one (decided to pull the trigger too late), and had to wait 2 years before a used one meeting my tight criteria was available, and it was my second color choice. I bought it immediately.
The 718 GT4 isn't going to be much of a factor because at this point, like the stock market, it's already priced into the sales of current GT4s. Anyone waiting to see what the 718 GT4 is going to be like (and holding onto their GT4 in the meantime) is already 1 year if not 2 years behind on the wait list to get one.
All that said, I agree 10% under MSRP is reasonable. You will have to pay a tad more if it's a very attractive build (e.g. white, no track miles) or from a hot market (socal, maybe norcal) just because that car will attract more eyeballs.
I think you absolutely have to divide the cars into two half-markets, those with the seats you want and those with the other kind of seats. Most cars have LWBs so if you want the sofas you have a very very limited number of cars to choose from.
Beyond that, you probably want a specific color, and probably want to buy from a specific region of the country near to you. So now the number of available cars is much smaller.
If you want specific options, and especially for rarer options, the market is smaller yet again.
Most cars have reasonable mileage so that isn't much of a factor that narrows the selection.
I missed the last chance to buy a new one (decided to pull the trigger too late), and had to wait 2 years before a used one meeting my tight criteria was available, and it was my second color choice. I bought it immediately.
The 718 GT4 isn't going to be much of a factor because at this point, like the stock market, it's already priced into the sales of current GT4s. Anyone waiting to see what the 718 GT4 is going to be like (and holding onto their GT4 in the meantime) is already 1 year if not 2 years behind on the wait list to get one.
All that said, I agree 10% under MSRP is reasonable. You will have to pay a tad more if it's a very attractive build (e.g. white, no track miles) or from a hot market (socal, maybe norcal) just because that car will attract more eyeballs.
11-01-2018, 02:33 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Welcome! I was a life long BMW ///M fan until the GT4 came along so I'm super excited for you. It's a really great and massively different ownership and driving experience. I would recommend dismissing the idea of buying the GT4 as a place to "park money". That low/no depreciation flip is really more for the latest and greatest in the moment hype cycle GT car going over list with a pile of dead RLers stacked at the door of dealerships with deposits in hand and even then you need to get the car at MSRP and not drive it. God forbid you actually track it or put a decent amount of miles on it. The GT4 is going to depreciate like any other car if you use it, maybe a little less than average. There will always be newer, better, faster from Porsche.
If I were looking for a car now, the only thing I would be wary of is the transmission issue. Therefore, ideally I would look for a CPO car, an early car (2015 build), or a car with some decent miles on it that's already had the tranny replaced. Outside that, I wouldn't be dissuaded from other cars, I might just want to calculate a few k into the price if you ever need to replace the 3rd gear. Heck, I figured if my 3rd gear failed it would be an awesome excuse to regear the tranny but it just keeps going. Other than that, I would get an over rev report and if the car has some miles and PCCBs, maybe have the PCCBs measured. Unlike the long S54 in the M3 (I have a Z4M) the 9A1 can handle way more revs than the redline would suggest so IMHO some over revs are totally fine but if there was a significant over rev reported I would want a compression test done. The PCCBs are also awesome and long lasting so generally no concern there but it might be worth checking just because they are $$$.
Overall I've been very impressed with how robust these cars are and how reliable my own car has been with mixed roadtripping and HPDE use, especially compared to my past BMW's, so I don't think there are too many things to watch out for. Personally, I would look for a loaded car. Options don't usually hold too much value used but as part of the ownership experience they are awesome and Porsche really nickles and dimes you so I do think options make a big difference. I still can't believe dimming mirrors were an option! Dimming mirrors, pdls, leather, backlit door sills, carbon fiber & alcantara... stuff, the options are a nice value if you're buying used.
If I were looking for a car now, the only thing I would be wary of is the transmission issue. Therefore, ideally I would look for a CPO car, an early car (2015 build), or a car with some decent miles on it that's already had the tranny replaced. Outside that, I wouldn't be dissuaded from other cars, I might just want to calculate a few k into the price if you ever need to replace the 3rd gear. Heck, I figured if my 3rd gear failed it would be an awesome excuse to regear the tranny but it just keeps going. Other than that, I would get an over rev report and if the car has some miles and PCCBs, maybe have the PCCBs measured. Unlike the long S54 in the M3 (I have a Z4M) the 9A1 can handle way more revs than the redline would suggest so IMHO some over revs are totally fine but if there was a significant over rev reported I would want a compression test done. The PCCBs are also awesome and long lasting so generally no concern there but it might be worth checking just because they are $$$.
Overall I've been very impressed with how robust these cars are and how reliable my own car has been with mixed roadtripping and HPDE use, especially compared to my past BMW's, so I don't think there are too many things to watch out for. Personally, I would look for a loaded car. Options don't usually hold too much value used but as part of the ownership experience they are awesome and Porsche really nickles and dimes you so I do think options make a big difference. I still can't believe dimming mirrors were an option! Dimming mirrors, pdls, leather, backlit door sills, carbon fiber & alcantara... stuff, the options are a nice value if you're buying used.
11-01-2018, 02:37 PM
#6
my feeling is the GT4 is the best value proposition out there (biased, own the GT4), go with your head and get the GT4, and why wait? nobody knows what lies ahead, markets change
buy it, drive it, enjoy it! just short of 40,000 trouble free miles on mine (only routine service), plenty of cars available in the $85k to $95k range, get one with certified warranty so when you trade it in 2 years it's still under warranty
find a car you like, offer 10% less and negotiate from there, can't agree on price, then go to the next one
head = GT4 (you get 80% of the experience for half the price)
heart = GT3, if you've got the means, by all means, buy the GT3 (it's a better car but you pay for it, that's why I say GT4 is best value proposition), why live with regret that you always wanted a GT3, but bought a GT4, now regret it (as they say in the thread below, you can always "downgrade" to the GT4)
GT4 vs GT3 arguments are mainly opinion, subjective, personal preference
facts, GT3 costs more, has better engine, revs higher, goes faster
sound, the GT4 clearly sounds awesome in stock configuration
how fast do you really need to go? if you're going to compete for fastest track times, I'd buy a GT4 Clubsport or a car someone has already prepped for track use w/cage
daily driving, canyon carving, either car quickly exceeds the limits, hard to say GT3 would be substantially better (subjective)
steering feel, haven't driven GT3 but hard to beat the GT4
there's a thread in the 991 GT3/GT3RS forum about what to buy, a GT3 or a GT4? some interesting comments here: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-have-1-a.html
buy it, drive it, enjoy it! just short of 40,000 trouble free miles on mine (only routine service), plenty of cars available in the $85k to $95k range, get one with certified warranty so when you trade it in 2 years it's still under warranty
find a car you like, offer 10% less and negotiate from there, can't agree on price, then go to the next one
head = GT4 (you get 80% of the experience for half the price)
heart = GT3, if you've got the means, by all means, buy the GT3 (it's a better car but you pay for it, that's why I say GT4 is best value proposition), why live with regret that you always wanted a GT3, but bought a GT4, now regret it (as they say in the thread below, you can always "downgrade" to the GT4)
GT4 vs GT3 arguments are mainly opinion, subjective, personal preference
facts, GT3 costs more, has better engine, revs higher, goes faster
sound, the GT4 clearly sounds awesome in stock configuration
how fast do you really need to go? if you're going to compete for fastest track times, I'd buy a GT4 Clubsport or a car someone has already prepped for track use w/cage
daily driving, canyon carving, either car quickly exceeds the limits, hard to say GT3 would be substantially better (subjective)
steering feel, haven't driven GT3 but hard to beat the GT4
there's a thread in the 991 GT3/GT3RS forum about what to buy, a GT3 or a GT4? some interesting comments here: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-have-1-a.html
11-01-2018, 02:37 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
The market has gotten softer, but the number of cars that meet a person's particular spec is also shrinking. If you will be happy with any old gt4, it's a great time.
I think you absolutely have to divide the cars into two half-markets, those with the seats you want and those with the other kind of seats. Most cars have LWBs so if you want the sofas you have a very very limited number of cars to choose from.
Beyond that, you probably want a specific color, and probably want to buy from a specific region of the country near to you. So now the number of available cars is much smaller.
If you want specific options, and especially for rarer options, the market is smaller yet again.
Most cars have reasonable mileage so that isn't much of a factor that narrows the selection.
I missed the last chance to buy a new one (decided to pull the trigger too late), and had to wait 2 years before a used one meeting my tight criteria was available, and it was my second color choice. I bought it immediately.
The 718 GT4 isn't going to be much of a factor because at this point, like the stock market, it's already priced into the sales of current GT4s. Anyone waiting to see what the 718 GT4 is going to be like (and holding onto their GT4 in the meantime) is already 1 year if not 2 years behind on the wait list to get one.
All that said, I agree 10% under MSRP is reasonable. You will have to pay a tad more if it's a very attractive build (e.g. white, no track miles) or from a hot market (socal, maybe norcal) just because that car will attract more eyeballs.
I think you absolutely have to divide the cars into two half-markets, those with the seats you want and those with the other kind of seats. Most cars have LWBs so if you want the sofas you have a very very limited number of cars to choose from.
Beyond that, you probably want a specific color, and probably want to buy from a specific region of the country near to you. So now the number of available cars is much smaller.
If you want specific options, and especially for rarer options, the market is smaller yet again.
Most cars have reasonable mileage so that isn't much of a factor that narrows the selection.
I missed the last chance to buy a new one (decided to pull the trigger too late), and had to wait 2 years before a used one meeting my tight criteria was available, and it was my second color choice. I bought it immediately.
The 718 GT4 isn't going to be much of a factor because at this point, like the stock market, it's already priced into the sales of current GT4s. Anyone waiting to see what the 718 GT4 is going to be like (and holding onto their GT4 in the meantime) is already 1 year if not 2 years behind on the wait list to get one.
All that said, I agree 10% under MSRP is reasonable. You will have to pay a tad more if it's a very attractive build (e.g. white, no track miles) or from a hot market (socal, maybe norcal) just because that car will attract more eyeballs.
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11-01-2018, 03:14 PM
#8
CPO would be a huge benefit.
The primary thing to narrow down first is what seats you want. Then go from there with other options.
They seem to be selling for $10k to $15k under MSRP. That may drop a bit more as winter approaches for most of the country.
And don't spend too long kicking yourself for not buying a proper sports car sooner.
The primary thing to narrow down first is what seats you want. Then go from there with other options.
They seem to be selling for $10k to $15k under MSRP. That may drop a bit more as winter approaches for most of the country.
And don't spend too long kicking yourself for not buying a proper sports car sooner.
11-01-2018, 04:59 PM
#9
Drifting
If youre able to buy a good car for 10% under msrp and are willing to accept 15% downside from that (meaning to around 25% below msrp), I think that its extremely unlikely that youll end up worse than that.
Under that case, Id buy the car now, but focus on cars that have been tracked and already have had their transmission fixed, so that youre not paying extra for the creampuff car that hasn't been tracked, and so you don't have the expense of a transmission fix if not covered by CPO or otherwise warranty (which it should be - Im hearing that Porsche is fixing them outside of warranty).
BTW, its a given that the new car price will be higher than the old, its just a matter of how much. 10% is about what the market expects, but Porsche may have underpriced the previous car and Im sure that they are aware that they will still sell all of them, and dealers will still be able to get an ADM of some sort, if they raised the price 20%. Under that scenario 981s will increase in value. But who cares - find a car you want and drive it!
Under that case, Id buy the car now, but focus on cars that have been tracked and already have had their transmission fixed, so that youre not paying extra for the creampuff car that hasn't been tracked, and so you don't have the expense of a transmission fix if not covered by CPO or otherwise warranty (which it should be - Im hearing that Porsche is fixing them outside of warranty).
BTW, its a given that the new car price will be higher than the old, its just a matter of how much. 10% is about what the market expects, but Porsche may have underpriced the previous car and Im sure that they are aware that they will still sell all of them, and dealers will still be able to get an ADM of some sort, if they raised the price 20%. Under that scenario 981s will increase in value. But who cares - find a car you want and drive it!
11-01-2018, 06:38 PM
#10
Intermediate
Join Date: Apr 2016
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As a former owner of an e46 M3, an e92 M3, and a GT4, I fully endorse your decision. Complete the necessary diligence on the transmission as has been mentioned, but don't hesitate making the jump and not looking back!
11-01-2018, 07:02 PM
#11
The market has gotten softer, but the number of cars that meet a person's particular spec is also shrinking. If you will be happy with any old gt4, it's a great time.
I think you absolutely have to divide the cars into two half-markets, those with the seats you want and those with the other kind of seats. Most cars have LWBs so if you want the sofas you have a very very limited number of cars to choose from.
Beyond that, you probably want a specific color, and probably want to buy from a specific region of the country near to you. So now the number of available cars is much smaller.
If you want specific options, and especially for rarer options, the market is smaller yet again.
Most cars have reasonable mileage so that isn't much of a factor that narrows the selection.
I missed the last chance to buy a new one (decided to pull the trigger too late), and had to wait 2 years before a used one meeting my tight criteria was available, and it was my second color choice. I bought it immediately.
The 718 GT4 isn't going to be much of a factor because at this point, like the stock market, it's already priced into the sales of current GT4s. Anyone waiting to see what the 718 GT4 is going to be like (and holding onto their GT4 in the meantime) is already 1 year if not 2 years behind on the wait list to get one.
All that said, I agree 10% under MSRP is reasonable. You will have to pay a tad more if it's a very attractive build (e.g. white, no track miles) or from a hot market (socal, maybe norcal) just because that car will attract more eyeballs.
I think you absolutely have to divide the cars into two half-markets, those with the seats you want and those with the other kind of seats. Most cars have LWBs so if you want the sofas you have a very very limited number of cars to choose from.
Beyond that, you probably want a specific color, and probably want to buy from a specific region of the country near to you. So now the number of available cars is much smaller.
If you want specific options, and especially for rarer options, the market is smaller yet again.
Most cars have reasonable mileage so that isn't much of a factor that narrows the selection.
I missed the last chance to buy a new one (decided to pull the trigger too late), and had to wait 2 years before a used one meeting my tight criteria was available, and it was my second color choice. I bought it immediately.
The 718 GT4 isn't going to be much of a factor because at this point, like the stock market, it's already priced into the sales of current GT4s. Anyone waiting to see what the 718 GT4 is going to be like (and holding onto their GT4 in the meantime) is already 1 year if not 2 years behind on the wait list to get one.
All that said, I agree 10% under MSRP is reasonable. You will have to pay a tad more if it's a very attractive build (e.g. white, no track miles) or from a hot market (socal, maybe norcal) just because that car will attract more eyeballs.
From what I see available on various used car sights, I am finding plenty of cars that I could be happy with. Maybe I am not as picky on the option side because the GT4 is just such a step up for me, and my first Porsche. I do care about condition of the car a lot, and also that it's low miles, 1- owner and good price of course. Some colors are not for me, but many of them are OK. My top choices would be Agate Gray, Carmine Red, Blue, White, Silver and would consider others also. Nothing too dark though, because of upkeep.
I wanted the LWB Seats, but from what you are saying, that is the more common choice? That surprises me. Did not expect that. Are the regular seats still supportive? I did not find the ones in the 981S to be adequate for lateral support, but maybe the GT4 has different seats?
I am in NorCal so that is good and bad. Good for selection, bad for market price, but I have found some already, if I was ready to buy today.
Welcome! I was a life long BMW ///M fan until the GT4 came along so I'm super excited for you. It's a really great and massively different ownership and driving experience. I would recommend dismissing the idea of buying the GT4 as a place to "park money". That low/no depreciation flip is really more for the latest and greatest in the moment hype cycle GT car going over list with a pile of dead RLers stacked at the door of dealerships with deposits in hand and even then you need to get the car at MSRP and not drive it. God forbid you actually track it or put a decent amount of miles on it. The GT4 is going to depreciate like any other car if you use it, maybe a little less than average. There will always be newer, better, faster from Porsche.
If I were looking for a car now, the only thing I would be wary of is the transmission issue. Therefore, ideally I would look for a CPO car, an early car (2015 build), or a car with some decent miles on it that's already had the tranny replaced. Outside that, I wouldn't be dissuaded from other cars, I might just want to calculate a few k into the price if you ever need to replace the 3rd gear. Heck, I figured if my 3rd gear failed it would be an awesome excuse to regear the tranny but it just keeps going. Other than that, I would get an over rev report and if the car has some miles and PCCBs, maybe have the PCCBs measured. Unlike the long S54 in the M3 (I have a Z4M) the 9A1 can handle way more revs than the redline would suggest so IMHO some over revs are totally fine but if there was a significant over rev reported I would want a compression test done. The PCCBs are also awesome and long lasting so generally no concern there but it might be worth checking just because they are $$$.
Overall I've been very impressed with how robust these cars are and how reliable my own car has been with mixed roadtripping and HPDE use, especially compared to my past BMW's, so I don't think there are too many things to watch out for. Personally, I would look for a loaded car. Options don't usually hold too much value used but as part of the ownership experience they are awesome and Porsche really nickles and dimes you so I do think options make a big difference. I still can't believe dimming mirrors were an option! Dimming mirrors, pdls, leather, backlit door sills, carbon fiber & alcantara... stuff, the options are a nice value if you're buying used.
If I were looking for a car now, the only thing I would be wary of is the transmission issue. Therefore, ideally I would look for a CPO car, an early car (2015 build), or a car with some decent miles on it that's already had the tranny replaced. Outside that, I wouldn't be dissuaded from other cars, I might just want to calculate a few k into the price if you ever need to replace the 3rd gear. Heck, I figured if my 3rd gear failed it would be an awesome excuse to regear the tranny but it just keeps going. Other than that, I would get an over rev report and if the car has some miles and PCCBs, maybe have the PCCBs measured. Unlike the long S54 in the M3 (I have a Z4M) the 9A1 can handle way more revs than the redline would suggest so IMHO some over revs are totally fine but if there was a significant over rev reported I would want a compression test done. The PCCBs are also awesome and long lasting so generally no concern there but it might be worth checking just because they are $$$.
Overall I've been very impressed with how robust these cars are and how reliable my own car has been with mixed roadtripping and HPDE use, especially compared to my past BMW's, so I don't think there are too many things to watch out for. Personally, I would look for a loaded car. Options don't usually hold too much value used but as part of the ownership experience they are awesome and Porsche really nickles and dimes you so I do think options make a big difference. I still can't believe dimming mirrors were an option! Dimming mirrors, pdls, leather, backlit door sills, carbon fiber & alcantara... stuff, the options are a nice value if you're buying used.
I know the the 3rd gear is an issue, but would you really base your purchase decision on it? I mean if the car has warranty, why worry about it? For sure get an extended warranty or CPO, which I have all intentions of doing, but outside of that, it's like the VANOS or subframe on the e46 M3. Do the maintenance and hope for the best. Seems like every car has an achilles heel, and a gearing change from Sharkswerks would be kind of cool.
Yes, I will definitely check the overrevs and PCCB's if I get a car with those, although leaning to steel brakes.
my feeling is the GT4 is the best value proposition out there (biased, own the GT4), go with your head and get the GT4, and why wait? nobody knows what lies ahead, markets change
buy it, drive it, enjoy it! just short of 40,000 trouble free miles on mine (only routine service), plenty of cars available in the $85k to $95k range, get one with certified warranty so when you trade it in 2 years it's still under warranty
find a car you like, offer 10% less and negotiate from there, can't agree on price, then go to the next one
head = GT4 (you get 80% of the experience for half the price)
heart = GT3, if you've got the means, by all means, buy the GT3 (it's a better car but you pay for it, that's why I say GT4 is best value proposition), why live with regret that you always wanted a GT3, but bought a GT4, now regret it (as they say in the thread below, you can always "downgrade" to the GT4)
GT4 vs GT3 arguments are mainly opinion, subjective, personal preference
facts, GT3 costs more, has better engine, revs higher, goes faster
sound, the GT4 clearly sounds awesome in stock configuration
how fast do you really need to go? if you're going to compete for fastest track times, I'd buy a GT4 Clubsport or a car someone has already prepped for track use w/cage
daily driving, canyon carving, either car quickly exceeds the limits, hard to say GT3 would be substantially better (subjective)
steering feel, haven't driven GT3 but hard to beat the GT4
there's a thread in the 991 GT3/GT3RS forum about what to buy, a GT3 or a GT4? some interesting comments here: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-have-1-a.html
buy it, drive it, enjoy it! just short of 40,000 trouble free miles on mine (only routine service), plenty of cars available in the $85k to $95k range, get one with certified warranty so when you trade it in 2 years it's still under warranty
find a car you like, offer 10% less and negotiate from there, can't agree on price, then go to the next one
head = GT4 (you get 80% of the experience for half the price)
heart = GT3, if you've got the means, by all means, buy the GT3 (it's a better car but you pay for it, that's why I say GT4 is best value proposition), why live with regret that you always wanted a GT3, but bought a GT4, now regret it (as they say in the thread below, you can always "downgrade" to the GT4)
GT4 vs GT3 arguments are mainly opinion, subjective, personal preference
facts, GT3 costs more, has better engine, revs higher, goes faster
sound, the GT4 clearly sounds awesome in stock configuration
how fast do you really need to go? if you're going to compete for fastest track times, I'd buy a GT4 Clubsport or a car someone has already prepped for track use w/cage
daily driving, canyon carving, either car quickly exceeds the limits, hard to say GT3 would be substantially better (subjective)
steering feel, haven't driven GT3 but hard to beat the GT4
there's a thread in the 991 GT3/GT3RS forum about what to buy, a GT3 or a GT4? some interesting comments here: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-have-1-a.html
CPO would be a huge benefit.
The primary thing to narrow down first is what seats you want. Then go from there with other options.
They seem to be selling for $10k to $15k under MSRP. That may drop a bit more as winter approaches for most of the country.
And don't spend too long kicking yourself for not buying a proper sports car sooner.
The primary thing to narrow down first is what seats you want. Then go from there with other options.
They seem to be selling for $10k to $15k under MSRP. That may drop a bit more as winter approaches for most of the country.
And don't spend too long kicking yourself for not buying a proper sports car sooner.
If youre able to buy a good car for 10% under msrp and are willing to accept 15% downside from that (meaning to around 25% below msrp), I think that its extremely unlikely that youll end up worse than that.
Under that case, Id buy the car now, but focus on cars that have been tracked and already have had their transmission fixed, so that youre not paying extra for the creampuff car that hasn't been tracked, and so you don't have the expense of a transmission fix if not covered by CPO or otherwise warranty (which it should be - Im hearing that Porsche is fixing them outside of warranty).
BTW, its a given that the new car price will be higher than the old, its just a matter of how much. 10% is about what the market expects, but Porsche may have underpriced the previous car and Im sure that they are aware that they will still sell all of them, and dealers will still be able to get an ADM of some sort, if they raised the price 20%. Under that scenario 981s will increase in value. But who cares - find a car you want and drive it!
Under that case, Id buy the car now, but focus on cars that have been tracked and already have had their transmission fixed, so that youre not paying extra for the creampuff car that hasn't been tracked, and so you don't have the expense of a transmission fix if not covered by CPO or otherwise warranty (which it should be - Im hearing that Porsche is fixing them outside of warranty).
BTW, its a given that the new car price will be higher than the old, its just a matter of how much. 10% is about what the market expects, but Porsche may have underpriced the previous car and Im sure that they are aware that they will still sell all of them, and dealers will still be able to get an ADM of some sort, if they raised the price 20%. Under that scenario 981s will increase in value. But who cares - find a car you want and drive it!
11-01-2018, 07:12 PM
#12
11-01-2018, 07:52 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Thanks. I'm pretty sure now I won't regret making the jump. BMW has lost the touch a bit the last few years. The e46 M3 was their peak. The e92 M3 was still a good car also, but got too heavy and now they are just offering turbos and are not catering to the enthusiasts as much as Porsche does to theirs. They are going in a different direction and it is sad to watch, but I might look back some day and pick up another older M3.
I respectfully disagree with you on this. I've been a BMW M and Porsche owner since 1984 so I've been fortunate to own an E30 M3,E36 M3, E46 M3,E28 M5, E34 M5, E90 M3 and now an F82 M4. Each evolution , in my humble opinion, was an improvement without a doubt . My M4 is superb in almost every category. In fact, it takes the biggest leap forward from the E90 M3 which I thought was just so so. Have you driven the current M3/M4 ? these are the first production M cars to go sub 7:30 at the Ring.(M4 GTS on Cup2's official time is 7:27 )
As a point of reference , the 997.2 GT3 RS is in the 7:33's on Cup2's . The owners in Europe will strongly disagree that they aren't catering to enthusiasts. I was in Jerez this past June and its all about M4's and GT4's there.
I also own a GT4 and these two cars in a way compliment each other . My M4 is at about 570 hp now with the Stage2 tune it has and I love getting 22 mpg in a car that can easily keep up and beat GTR's , Camaro LTZ's, Ferrari 458's and AMG's with a way lower carbon footprint than the previous gen .
11-01-2018, 11:19 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Glad to hear that it is the right choice coming from a BMW guy. I will miss the S54, but I might get another one down the road. Would have been nice to keep my car, it was very well sorted, but I needed to make room for the GT4 if I wanted one.
I know the the 3rd gear is an issue, but would you really base your purchase decision on it? I mean if the car has warranty, why worry about it? For sure get an extended warranty or CPO, which I have all intentions of doing, but outside of that, it's like the VANOS or subframe on the e46 M3. Do the maintenance and hope for the best. Seems like every car has an achilles heel, and a gearing change from Sharkswerks would be kind of cool.
Yes, I will definitely check the overrevs and PCCB's if I get a car with those, although leaning to steel brakes.
I know the the 3rd gear is an issue, but would you really base your purchase decision on it? I mean if the car has warranty, why worry about it? For sure get an extended warranty or CPO, which I have all intentions of doing, but outside of that, it's like the VANOS or subframe on the e46 M3. Do the maintenance and hope for the best. Seems like every car has an achilles heel, and a gearing change from Sharkswerks would be kind of cool.
Yes, I will definitely check the overrevs and PCCB's if I get a car with those, although leaning to steel brakes.
11-01-2018, 11:50 PM
#15
I respectfully disagree with you on this. I've been a BMW M and Porsche owner since 1984 so I've been fortunate to own an E30 M3,E36 M3, E46 M3,E28 M5, E34 M5, E90 M3 and now an F82 M4. Each evolution , in my humble opinion, was an improvement without a doubt . My M4 is superb in almost every category. In fact, it takes the biggest leap forward from the E90 M3 which I thought was just so so. Have you driven the current M3/M4 ? these are the first production M cars to go sub 7:30 at the Ring.(M4 GTS on Cup2's official time is 7:27 )
As a point of reference , the 997.2 GT3 RS is in the 7:33's on Cup2's . The owners in Europe will strongly disagree that they aren't catering to enthusiasts. I was in Jerez this past June and its all about M4's and GT4's there.
I also own a GT4 and these two cars in a way compliment each other . My M4 is at about 570 hp now with the Stage2 tune it has and I love getting 22 mpg in a car that can easily keep up and beat GTR's , Camaro LTZ's, Ferrari 458's and AMG's with a way lower carbon footprint than the previous gen .
As a point of reference , the 997.2 GT3 RS is in the 7:33's on Cup2's . The owners in Europe will strongly disagree that they aren't catering to enthusiasts. I was in Jerez this past June and its all about M4's and GT4's there.
I also own a GT4 and these two cars in a way compliment each other . My M4 is at about 570 hp now with the Stage2 tune it has and I love getting 22 mpg in a car that can easily keep up and beat GTR's , Camaro LTZ's, Ferrari 458's and AMG's with a way lower carbon footprint than the previous gen .