Chumlee

I dont post much but enjoy the entertainment/knowledge the forum gives you. The 718 GT4 on paper seemed somewhat of a disappointment but as the reviews come in, I'm sure we will see the 15-20% improvements Porsche typically instills in evolutionary models. After listening to AP on Carfection, I'm more intrigued. If memory serves me correctly, when the original 981 GT4 was released, performance in general was on par with the 997 GT3 or RS of that vintage. I did purchase a 981 and did enjoy the experience but felt the motor wasn't special enough. Time obviously moves on as well as performance. I currently own an exceptional example of a 991.1 GT3 fully set up, sport buckets, ST ceramics, graphics, side muffler delete, etc. Its approaching 20k miles, 9k of which I have done. The motor/gearbox in my opinion is just a masterpiece. The car is dominated by the engine as it goes thru the rev range and makes the obvious sounds all of us crave. With all this being said, whats the opinion on the 718 4.0 motor? I toy with the idea of letting the GT3 go with a fully built GT4 specced to about $120k or so. I just don't know that I can do it. Part of me enjoys the pure driving experience the GT4 gives you with the manual gearbox over the GT3 but in all honestly you forget about the involvement when you accelerate and tap the paddles. How close do we feel the overall performance will be between the 2?

The other part of this is I am craving an R32 Skyline. In terms of driving dynamics, god its good. The plan was to take a nice example and tinker till my hearts content. I have wanted a project car to build and considered an older vintage 911 but the budgets can get totally out of hand. The R32 will be purchased in the next 3-6 months. I can only have have 1 Porsche car in the garage so what to do is my dilemma? I do realize we are not to far off in terms of price between a 991.1 and a 718 GT4 but I'm in a very good position based on whats owed on a 991.1 Thoughts and opinions are welcome. Very interested to hear opinions on the 2 P-cars........

jmartpr

If you ask me, I would keep the GT3. Don't get me wrong, I'm getting a 718 GT4,
I have high hopes for this new 4.0L engine and believe (just my opinion here) that with mods we will be able to get a significant amount of HP back, maybe getting close to a stock 991.1 GT3 Hp output...but at the end the GT3 engine is just very special with a 9K rpms redline, dry sump, etc.
You also have to consider which platform you prefer. I personally like mid-engine cars.
Do you track your car a lot? Which tracks? All those questions also will influence your decision.

cneigho

Agree with the perspectives shared.

I have been in a very similar position in terms of evaluating if there is incremental value in the new 718 GT cars. One of the first things I zeroed in on upon release was weight to power to better understand the potential incremental value to my current car. Initially I was disappointed on paper given the weight to power was very similar to the 981. Simply scaling cars larger will always yield better performance numbers but ultimately risks the ability to exploit that performance in the mountains or on the track. The Carfection walkthrough unpacks a lot of evolution of the aero, motor, weight, suspension and exhaust specifics that added some much needed color to the black and white on paper specs which left me feeling more cautiously optimistic. It’s very clear from the comments in that interview that the GT department at Porsche was intentional about tuning the car for usable power and dynamics. With that said, it will be interesting to hear about how special the powertrain is and if 8k rpm has some magic especially with the upgraded internals. I believe it’s a balance. Assuming the suspension and chassis are a constant or slightly better than the 981, the driving dynamics should be amazing given the new aero improvements. The notion of opening up the exhaust to optimize power also came into my mind especially in this platform, more than others, given both the particulate filters and all the bending they had to do to get the exhaust to fit around the new diffuser.

So to indirectly answer your question, I think lap times will be very similar between a 991 Gt3 and 718 Gt4. What you lose in corner entry you may gain in exit speed in the former. The 718 should be able to make up the difference straight line speed with a slight weight/braking advantage on the GT3. For me personally, I’m waiting to hear and feel the new powertrain to better understand if the enjoyment of mid-engine dynamics outweigh a 9k 991.1 GT3 motor which is very compelling. If changing platforms and newness resonates, it may be a good decision. If you’re looking for a leap in performance, it may not be as much.

Chumlee

I track usually 2 times a year, typically Sebring. I have raced for many years usually in a spec miata, great wheel to wheel racing. The mid/rear engine debate goes on like all topics. The mid engine obviously is the sweeter set up/feel until you reach the limit. The engine, as I mentioned in my original post, really is something special. Interested to see and hear the true driving reviews soon

BioBanker

If what you like most about your GT3 is the engine, dont get a GT4 as you will be left unfullfilled. I agree with your review of the GT4 engine and I dont feel that the 4.0 will change the perception/experience versus the 981.

GT3 is dominated by its engine. GT4 is more balanced and has an engine that blends in, IMO. Not a bad thing - but a screamer it aint. And thats ok for me.

But Id question the metrics to determine a 15% improvement over the previous car. Im sure it will be a bit faster, but is that an improvement? Im sure for some it will be but for many of us, if faster was better we'd have bought GT3s.

SteveFrench

i’m Keeping my 997.1; gonna save up for a 718 gt4 pdk. Rear engine manual mezger and mid engine pdk new 4.0......perfect combo

DNSGT3

Coming from the GT4 to now a 991.2 GT3, I can say the power difference is quite big. More so if you compare PDK GT3 vs. GT4.
I want a 718 Spyder but I can't let go of my GT3....

GrantG

Actually the power difference is greater when you compare GT4 to the .2 GT3 Manual (PDK loses over 10hp as heat in the wet clutches).

bk_911

Depends really on what you value. I'm guessing the new GT4 will continue to be a goldilocks car (just right). If you like doing back roads and track equally imo the GT4 is hard to beat. The gt3 on public roads is just beyond again imo.

Bill Lehman

Since returning to the track I have done 194 track days, including 48 days and 3800 track miles on my GT4. I'm a very experienced instructor and have instructed many 991 GT3 cars. A well driven 991 GT3 set up with similar tires will be about 2-3 seconds a lap faster then my GT4 at Watkins Glen. No way a 718 GT4 will keep up.

Chumlee

So as the reviews come flying in, and of course, they love this car, one statistic has me dumbfounded. The car was 10 seconds faster around the ring than the prior 981 model. Motortrend's article towards the end mentions that a PDK version has been "whispered' to be an additional 7-8 seconds faster than the manual. That would put the little cayman smack dab between a gen 1 and gen 2 GT3s ring time. Not to get all caught up in ring times but as usual performance moves on. Back when the 981 was released, it made for interesting conversation as the metzger motor gen 2 997 GT3 was equal to the Gt4. One question that I can't seem to get answered is the rear suspension set up. Is it a carry over from the 981 GT4 or is it a carry over from the current GT3? The 981 rear suspension geometry had certain limitations as you got to the limit. Wondering if its the same?

olmy

The 718 GT4 has the same suspension architecture (struts all the way around) as the 981. The components have been updated though.

GrantG

Will be interesting if the RS changes the rear suspension design (multi-link)?

jmartpr

Very hard to package that into a mid engine production car.....plus got to keep goodies exclusive to the rear engine platform so you get the itch to upgrade!