Fun factor test: 997RS vs GT4
08-11-2018, 05:22 PM
#31
I track a 996.2gt3 with tons of upgrades, very enjoyable car on track. Not the fastest but so rewarding to drive on the limit. Took my 4.0 for a short Saturday morning drive, car is very special in many ways. It almost feels like you just borrow the 4.0 from Porsche. Not really worthy such an amazing machine. I probably put way to many miles on mine but what the heck.
Had the pleasure of driving a friends Manthey racing set up Gt4 a couple of weeks ago on track. The car felt very good and I found it easy to pick up speed with the mid engine balance.
However I wouldn’t trade a 997rs for a gt4.
I would however trade my 996gt3 for the new gt4clubsport. The only problem yet to solve is to get it street legal. Most track organizers here in Europe demands license plates. So does the Nürburgring.
The new gt4 club sport would be my dream track day car. Run it on R comps and full cage. 4.0l engine redline about 8200rpm. Should be able to run it almost like a street car maintaince.
Had the pleasure of driving a friends Manthey racing set up Gt4 a couple of weeks ago on track. The car felt very good and I found it easy to pick up speed with the mid engine balance.
However I wouldn’t trade a 997rs for a gt4.
I would however trade my 996gt3 for the new gt4clubsport. The only problem yet to solve is to get it street legal. Most track organizers here in Europe demands license plates. So does the Nürburgring.
The new gt4 club sport would be my dream track day car. Run it on R comps and full cage. 4.0l engine redline about 8200rpm. Should be able to run it almost like a street car maintaince.
08-11-2018, 07:44 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Never driven a 997 RS - the prices would certainly make you think they are 2x special as a GT4.
They look really good....sound really good... I admire them.... as I pass.
Maybe we should compare 997 RS with a Singer?
They look really good....sound really good... I admire them.... as I pass.
Maybe we should compare 997 RS with a Singer?
08-12-2018, 09:32 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
I drove my 997.2 RS for a while yesterday. It's a very special car. Much more of a raw experience than my GT4 was. The noise, the sound of the high compression engine, the slightly notchy shifter, the clack of the flywheel while idling, the squeaky brakes, the very abrupt suspension...all of these things somehow combine to make every drive a special experience.
The GT4 is a newer, and more numb feeling. The shifter is silky smooth, the suspension is compliant while still allowing unbelievable crisp handling, its fast, it's comfortable, it's very well balanced...but it just never felt that special to me! I traded it for a new GT3 manual, I pick it up tomorrow.
There is a reason the 997.2 cars cost what they do 5-10 years later. It's definitely a sweet spot in the Porsche lineage.
The GT4 is a newer, and more numb feeling. The shifter is silky smooth, the suspension is compliant while still allowing unbelievable crisp handling, its fast, it's comfortable, it's very well balanced...but it just never felt that special to me! I traded it for a new GT3 manual, I pick it up tomorrow.
There is a reason the 997.2 cars cost what they do 5-10 years later. It's definitely a sweet spot in the Porsche lineage.
08-14-2018, 11:53 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
I've had the opportunity to drive the 997.1 GT3, 997.2 GT3/GT3 RS, 991.1 GT3/GT3 RS and the 991.2 GT3 along with my GT4. A couple of weeks ago I was able to drive the GT4, 991.1 RS and the 991.2 GT3 manual back to back on the same day in the Smokies. They were all fun to drive. I could be happy with any of the three. However, the one thing I came away impressed with was the grip of the 991.1 GT3 RS in the corners. It just went where I pointed it every time. 
To keep up with the other two cars in my GT4 required me to row harder and I think that is one of the major points of the GT4.
To keep up with the other two cars in my GT4 required me to row harder and I think that is one of the major points of the GT4.
08-14-2018, 11:32 PM
#36
Had an .2RS for 3 years and ~15K miles, took some trips in it, lots of track miles. It's a more special vehicle than any modern Porsche, which I'm sure is how air cooled folks feel.
GT4 is about the same speed on the track, at least with me behind the wheel. It carries a ton more corner entry and mid corner speed. Obviously loses in the straights.
997 has better exit grip and better high speed cornering manners, and generally feels more like a race car. It has a ton of character on and off track, and it takes a while to learn how to use it. It will feel like a more special experience. The motor is glorious. Where the 991RS feels like a video game - nice noise, where the 997 feels like the engine is going to explode and tingles your spine with NVH.
That said, if you're going to track it, it's on a totally different plane of maintenance costs if you want it to last - you don't want to cut any corners.
GT4, to me, is not as much fun - but I started to have enough issues with the 997 that it became less than fun to open my wallet to pick it up from the shop. I do find the GT4 at lot more fun than the 991.1 however...
GT4 is about the same speed on the track, at least with me behind the wheel. It carries a ton more corner entry and mid corner speed. Obviously loses in the straights.
997 has better exit grip and better high speed cornering manners, and generally feels more like a race car. It has a ton of character on and off track, and it takes a while to learn how to use it. It will feel like a more special experience. The motor is glorious. Where the 991RS feels like a video game - nice noise, where the 997 feels like the engine is going to explode and tingles your spine with NVH.
That said, if you're going to track it, it's on a totally different plane of maintenance costs if you want it to last - you don't want to cut any corners.
GT4, to me, is not as much fun - but I started to have enough issues with the 997 that it became less than fun to open my wallet to pick it up from the shop. I do find the GT4 at lot more fun than the 991.1 however...
08-16-2018, 10:40 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
997.2 GT3 (non RS) and GT4 (x2) owner.
The previously stated GT3 engine strength and GT4 balance are valid
but I would like to add I much prefer the 997.2 GT3 transmission placement of 2/4 th gear shift patterns OVER the GT4
The GT3 has standard seats and GT4 has LWBs so perhaps it is my seating position combined with my forearm length that sits me in the right location
but the 997.2 GT3 transmission shift into 2/4 is a more natural action pattern for my movements.
The previously stated GT3 engine strength and GT4 balance are valid
but I would like to add I much prefer the 997.2 GT3 transmission placement of 2/4 th gear shift patterns OVER the GT4
The GT3 has standard seats and GT4 has LWBs so perhaps it is my seating position combined with my forearm length that sits me in the right location
but the 997.2 GT3 transmission shift into 2/4 is a more natural action pattern for my movements.
08-16-2018, 11:53 PM
#38
Racer
I often tell people that the GT4 is simply the best car I've ever driven, I would strongly consider replacing my .1 RS with another GT4 if I was focussed ONLY on driving enjoyment.
The only downside to the GT4 (IMO) is the rear styling/proportions, obviously the Cayman body lacks the 911 hips, I and love those hips.
Though the 997 GT3 Mezger engine has more depth and character, the 3.8 DFI in the GT4 really comes to life with the basic intake/header/exhaust/tune package.
The only downside to the GT4 (IMO) is the rear styling/proportions, obviously the Cayman body lacks the 911 hips, I and love those hips.
Though the 997 GT3 Mezger engine has more depth and character, the 3.8 DFI in the GT4 really comes to life with the basic intake/header/exhaust/tune package.
08-17-2018, 03:50 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
I had considered removing the wing if there was a quality ducktail arrangement available. I think the ducktail being lower, also forces it to be narrower than the stock wing, which would accentuate the appearance of hips. Anyone know of a large ducktail option?
08-18-2018, 08:49 AM
#40
Rennlist Member
My 2007 GT3 RS has more than a few mods. Cup ring and pinion give it a violent first gear. Very violent with A7 Hoosiers mounted. 30-35 autocross events a year and it developed a bad noise coming from the transmission mid 2016. Stopped driving it and trailered it home. Parked it on the 2nd 4 post lift and there it stayed until a few months ago. Finally had time to take it in. Seems I broke the aftermarket LSD in half. Should have it back in a few weeks. I took many Top Time of Days with that car. Now competing with the less powerful GT4. Still getting just as many TToDs.
On street tires the GT4 is much more civil. The RS is a beast and wagging its tail turning onto a street is effortless. Racing Yellow or Kermit Green, both attract attention. More so the RS because of the bigger carbon fiber wing. GT4 rides better, RS has a much stiffer ride and serious camber. RS alignment is not exactly highway friendly. It will hunt side to side following the ruts that you really cannot see, but suspension/alignment feels them.
On street tires the GT4 is much more civil. The RS is a beast and wagging its tail turning onto a street is effortless. Racing Yellow or Kermit Green, both attract attention. More so the RS because of the bigger carbon fiber wing. GT4 rides better, RS has a much stiffer ride and serious camber. RS alignment is not exactly highway friendly. It will hunt side to side following the ruts that you really cannot see, but suspension/alignment feels them.
08-27-2018, 02:19 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
GT4 is a nice sports car that makes nice sounds.
Brakes are a step up for 997. Gearbox feels a bit better.
Everything else the 997RS feels like a raw racecar for the street.
Brakes are a step up for 997. Gearbox feels a bit better.
Everything else the 997RS feels like a raw racecar for the street.
10-27-2018, 03:19 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
The GT4 vs 997.1 RS comparison was on a short road circuit up the mountainside from Monaco. The dealer selling the RS told me the road beforehand so I drove it first in my GT4, then collected the RS to try. The dealer was with me but let me go as hard as I wanted. Cool guy, even turning the TC off without being asked. Here's what I wrote straight afterwards but bear in mind that it was only about a 20 minute circuit and included traffic in parts:
In both feedback [in the dry only] and precision the RS feels very similar to the GT4. The steering in the RS is a little lighter [lighter than the RS 4.0's too], which I prefer. I could feel the limits of the RS more easily but think this was just because the limits of the RS on six year old Pirelli Corsa Systems were reached much more easily than those of the GT4 on new Dunlop Sport Maxxs.
What I enjoyed most in the RS was that its handling felt more throttle adjustable (and more controllable than I remember my old 996.1 GT3 being) but again I think this was down to the grip of the tyres and also the suspension setup. Ride was similarly good in both.
I expected the RS to have a more thrilling top end but throughout the range both cars seemed evenly matched [I didn't have a lot of opportunity to explore the redline in the RS though]. The mid-range and top end of the RS has a more complex, varied and musical sound, while the GT4 is more visceral: even louder and harder edged. The RS has a characterful hard edged vibration under deceleration in the midrange and more low rev character reminiscent of old-school air-cooled warble but to my surprise (as with a 2.7 RS I drove recently) it is very soft in feel and volume. The GT4 might not have the warble at low revs but with the windows down and exhaust button pressed the burble and crackle provides similar entertainment.
The gearbox is a clear win to the GT4, which has a much shorter, more precise, less notchy action [though by the time I sold it it had loosened up to become so slick it felt half way to a PDK]. The change from 2nd to 3rd in particular is much quicker and easier. Clutch weight in each car is equivalent but the GT4 is more linear in take-up and easier to judge though this could be because of less wear. The gearing in both seemed similar but I would prefer 2nd to be lower, 3rd closer, 4th and 5th lowered accordingly, and a bigger gap to an unchanged 6th. Dropping into first in hairpins may provide a valid use for the impressively instant auto throttle blip in the GT4.
The GT4 has a firmer brake pedal, particularly at the top, giving its steel brakes more of the feel of a race setup than the as-new ceramics in the RS. Both have great feel.
Both cars look superb and I think — without having had a good look at an RS 4.0 — that the 997.1 RS is clearly the best looking GT3 RS and my favourite looking 911, new or old. I prefer the RS from the rear, the GT4 from the side and like them equally from the front. Inside I prefer the classic 911 styling of the dash in the RS. I like the view out of the GT4’s.
The more upright A pillars, lower waistline and higher glass house of the RS make it feel more classic and easier to place on the road but in the GT4 you feel lower and more securely cocooned and the view of the more curvaceous front wings is sexier. I can get the wheel slightly closer in the GT4, which I prefer, but the difference is insignificant. The RS seats grip tighter but the GT4’s offer a little more lateral support to the shoulders. They are equally very comfortable but the RS is a bit easier to get in and out of.
Overall I was surprised how similar the two cars are. For me the most significant driving difference was the throttle adjustability of the RS but on the way home in the GT4 we stopped at a Porsche dealership and had the rear ARB adjusted from medium to stiff. I barely had a chance to test it in the remainder of the trip but could feel that the slight stodge of understeer was gone, the steering felt slightly lighter as a result, and the tail was much more willing to engage.
If the RS was still at last year's [2014] price, the same as the GT4 on road, I would probably find its classic status hard to resist but at less than half the average current [2015] price of a 997.1 RS the GT4 really is a bargain when it can match an all time great for driving pleasure and is more practical. The ARB adjustment is essential though.
In both feedback [in the dry only] and precision the RS feels very similar to the GT4. The steering in the RS is a little lighter [lighter than the RS 4.0's too], which I prefer. I could feel the limits of the RS more easily but think this was just because the limits of the RS on six year old Pirelli Corsa Systems were reached much more easily than those of the GT4 on new Dunlop Sport Maxxs.
What I enjoyed most in the RS was that its handling felt more throttle adjustable (and more controllable than I remember my old 996.1 GT3 being) but again I think this was down to the grip of the tyres and also the suspension setup. Ride was similarly good in both.
I expected the RS to have a more thrilling top end but throughout the range both cars seemed evenly matched [I didn't have a lot of opportunity to explore the redline in the RS though]. The mid-range and top end of the RS has a more complex, varied and musical sound, while the GT4 is more visceral: even louder and harder edged. The RS has a characterful hard edged vibration under deceleration in the midrange and more low rev character reminiscent of old-school air-cooled warble but to my surprise (as with a 2.7 RS I drove recently) it is very soft in feel and volume. The GT4 might not have the warble at low revs but with the windows down and exhaust button pressed the burble and crackle provides similar entertainment.
The gearbox is a clear win to the GT4, which has a much shorter, more precise, less notchy action [though by the time I sold it it had loosened up to become so slick it felt half way to a PDK]. The change from 2nd to 3rd in particular is much quicker and easier. Clutch weight in each car is equivalent but the GT4 is more linear in take-up and easier to judge though this could be because of less wear. The gearing in both seemed similar but I would prefer 2nd to be lower, 3rd closer, 4th and 5th lowered accordingly, and a bigger gap to an unchanged 6th. Dropping into first in hairpins may provide a valid use for the impressively instant auto throttle blip in the GT4.
The GT4 has a firmer brake pedal, particularly at the top, giving its steel brakes more of the feel of a race setup than the as-new ceramics in the RS. Both have great feel.
Both cars look superb and I think — without having had a good look at an RS 4.0 — that the 997.1 RS is clearly the best looking GT3 RS and my favourite looking 911, new or old. I prefer the RS from the rear, the GT4 from the side and like them equally from the front. Inside I prefer the classic 911 styling of the dash in the RS. I like the view out of the GT4’s.
The more upright A pillars, lower waistline and higher glass house of the RS make it feel more classic and easier to place on the road but in the GT4 you feel lower and more securely cocooned and the view of the more curvaceous front wings is sexier. I can get the wheel slightly closer in the GT4, which I prefer, but the difference is insignificant. The RS seats grip tighter but the GT4’s offer a little more lateral support to the shoulders. They are equally very comfortable but the RS is a bit easier to get in and out of.
Overall I was surprised how similar the two cars are. For me the most significant driving difference was the throttle adjustability of the RS but on the way home in the GT4 we stopped at a Porsche dealership and had the rear ARB adjusted from medium to stiff. I barely had a chance to test it in the remainder of the trip but could feel that the slight stodge of understeer was gone, the steering felt slightly lighter as a result, and the tail was much more willing to engage.
If the RS was still at last year's [2014] price, the same as the GT4 on road, I would probably find its classic status hard to resist but at less than half the average current [2015] price of a 997.1 RS the GT4 really is a bargain when it can match an all time great for driving pleasure and is more practical. The ARB adjustment is essential though.
In the end after all the driving and deliberation I went with the GT4 not for any monetary or driving characteristic reason, but truly for its looks. It's simply stunning to behold and be inside of it. From the LWB to its ergonomic breath...it hit all the right notes for my DNA, but your observations are so spot on between the two !
Last edited by 911-140.6; 10-27-2018 at 03:20 PM. Reason: spell