DE Mandatory windows up VS windows down - Europe VS USA
03-07-2018, 04:42 AM
#16
Racer
Where and with who? Very surprised to hear this. So I guess only coupes could run?
03-07-2018, 05:53 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
I think it's pretty clear that there is a vocal minority who opposes windows up, but once informed of the norm everywhere outside of the US, most prefer windows up. I think the only way to have progress is for all interested track people to start an e-mail campaign and bother all tracks/providers of track insurance/clubs that they use. There could be a website to add your name to a petition. People could bother organizers at each track day. Nothing will happen unless there's a lot of noise from a lot of people coming from a lot of directions.
03-07-2018, 08:01 PM
#21
I doubt that the windows down group (myself included) is a minority. It is more likely that few would bother to argue with others who have limited experience and knowledge. As a driver and a corner worker I have personally observed a number of serious incidents. I’ve never seen a flailing limb that was injured as a result of windows being down. I have seen several cars that rolled violently, even ending up on fire. The drivers got out alive. The windows were down. Sometimes the doors will still open, other times not. Seconds can make the difference.
I would never drive on track at speed with the windows up.
I would never drive on track at speed with the windows up.
03-07-2018, 08:42 PM
#22
Banned
03-07-2018, 08:57 PM
#24
Banned
So if you don’t drive at the traction limit then windows up are better for you in a crash?
And if you drive at the traction limit, then windows down are better?
And if you drive at the traction limit, then windows down are better?
03-07-2018, 09:37 PM
#25
If you really are a club racer then you no doubt appreciate the materially greater risk involved in high speed driving on a track vs street driving. That is why race cars have required safety equipment, and why racers have racing licenses. That is why most advanced DEers also have safety equipment, and in many cases dedicated track cars. When driving on the street there is far less risk of an incident occurring that would require an emergency egress of the driver. Windows up or down is irrelevant. I am finished with this conversation.
03-07-2018, 11:08 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Pretty sure driving on the street is way more dangerous then driving on track, because as a very smart person told me one; "That's where the idiots are".
Personally, my hands are a bit more shaky when I roll up to the gates at Sebring than after a couple of flyers but that's another story.
Not all scenarios will be safer with windows up or down. It depends.
But modern cars are just terrible to drive 150+ mph with windows open. They are just not engineered to do so.
Windows blow out, your head wobbles and I personally am convinced it's safer with windows up. It's also more comfortable, prevents heat stroke and allows me to run in the rain without ruining the interior. We pay for track time rain or shine.
When I'm allowed to run windows up, I will instruct. If not, it's too uncomfortable and sometimes even more dangerous when the student can't hear you.
If you want windows down, you should be allowed. But if you want to run windows up, why not?? Where is the victim?
A HANS device is often safer then not. Yet, you can run without one.
For me it's worth it to pay more, travel further to run windows up. The rest of the world agrees, but in these parts there is always someone who needs to decide what is safer for someone else..
Personally, my hands are a bit more shaky when I roll up to the gates at Sebring than after a couple of flyers but that's another story.
Not all scenarios will be safer with windows up or down. It depends.
But modern cars are just terrible to drive 150+ mph with windows open. They are just not engineered to do so.
Windows blow out, your head wobbles and I personally am convinced it's safer with windows up. It's also more comfortable, prevents heat stroke and allows me to run in the rain without ruining the interior. We pay for track time rain or shine.
When I'm allowed to run windows up, I will instruct. If not, it's too uncomfortable and sometimes even more dangerous when the student can't hear you.
If you want windows down, you should be allowed. But if you want to run windows up, why not?? Where is the victim?
A HANS device is often safer then not. Yet, you can run without one.
For me it's worth it to pay more, travel further to run windows up. The rest of the world agrees, but in these parts there is always someone who needs to decide what is safer for someone else..
03-08-2018, 08:26 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
Hello GT4 people, check out and vote in the poll on the 991 GT3 board: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...down-poll.html
05-03-2018, 11:52 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Quote: Oliver Berg, Manager GT-Product Porsche
One option that is not recommended if you ever want to sell the car is air-conditioning delete. “Only 20 the 5,000 first generation 991 GT3 RS owners ticked the box for a/c delete,” said Oliver. “The fact is that while the 14kg weight saving might sound good on paper the discomfort you will experience when wearing a race suit and helmet on track in summer is simply not worth it. You will be hot and bothered and slower because you cannot concentrate as well compared to when you are cool and comfortable.”
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...1#content-page
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...2#content-page
One option that is not recommended if you ever want to sell the car is air-conditioning delete. “Only 20 the 5,000 first generation 991 GT3 RS owners ticked the box for a/c delete,” said Oliver. “The fact is that while the 14kg weight saving might sound good on paper the discomfort you will experience when wearing a race suit and helmet on track in summer is simply not worth it. You will be hot and bothered and slower because you cannot concentrate as well compared to when you are cool and comfortable.”
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...1#content-page
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...2#content-page
09-16-2018, 09:19 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So Chin gives you the choice now.
Its working beautifully as did our own event.
Im sure PBOC and others will follow I’m sure if they want to fill up track events here in Florida anyway.
Its working beautifully as did our own event.
Im sure PBOC and others will follow I’m sure if they want to fill up track events here in Florida anyway.
Last edited by TRAKCAR; 09-17-2018 at 12:41 PM.