Yellow Submarine

Not the engine itself is moved forward, but the engine mounts:

The 992 uses a completely new engine mounting system that finally ditches the traditional rear engine carrier arm. In the new system the mounts are part of the rear structure and are 168 mm further forward and 113 mm further outboard. This new positioning improves isolation from road shock and improves body control by reducing vertical engine movement within the chassis.

No idea if the engine itself is mounted forward at all, but if so, 20 mm (0.8 inch) seems more likely. (20 cm = 8 inch)

GoKart Mozart

Yes, you are correct. 20mm of course.

Wild Weasel

I'll never accept that the rear-engine design is inherently flawed. Not while they're still world-beaters in this day and age. The GT2RS took the Nurburgring lap record on it's release. That tells me the layout is just fine.
It needs to be driven differently and many people won't be ok with that, but that doesn't mean it's not capable of great things in the right hands. The greatest things, even.

GoKart Mozart

That is why I also wrote some aspects of the layout can be used to its advantage. Outside of that, you make a valid point, but at the same time, if we are just basing it on fastest possible lap times, is Porsche really trying to make a Cayman based model as powerful or as fast? That GT2 RS lap record will be broken again sometime soon, probably by a Lambo or McLaren, and they are not rear engine cars, so the argument goes away again.

RENN GTS

Correct.

Driving a Cayman is very drama free. A 911 is more work, yet more rewarding.

NoGaBiker

Where have you been since July? Record broken again

GoKart Mozart

For whom, the widow? ;-)

If in fact is was THAT good to have the engine in the back, why is Porsche continuing to move it forward, to the point where some consider it almost a mid engine now?

Archimedes

.1 Carrera S on street tires turned a 4 second faster Ring time than the 981GT4 on Cup 2s. The idea that it's as simple as mid engined > rear engined is laughable. The 911 chassis is a work of art that's been refined over decades. As the owner of both, if I had to win a race, particularly down a windy public road, I'd take the Carrera all day. I don't think one's better than the other per se, but the idea that the rear engined Carrera is hamstrung is a joke.

needmoregarage

d00d

The rear engine platform would have ended in the 80s, in favor of the front middle engine 928, if Peter Schultz hadn't made a convincing argument to the board.
Stubborn Porsche continues to massage it using electronic intervention and RAS so it won't kill it's occupants with drop throttle oversteer, unlike the 930 that tried it's best to do so back in high school, so I may be biased.
Given the same engine and rear suspension sophistication, a middle rear engine platform would be faster and more forgiving.

RENN GTS

There are certainly advantages to having the engine placed in the rear of the car. One of the largest advantages that I noticed when I switched from my GT4 to my current 991.2 Carrera was how much sooner and harder I was able to roll into the throttle on corner exit. Also, the 911 has pretty incredible traction in the rain given its rearward weight bias + large contact patch. I realize this is the GT4 forum and the bias will naturally lean toward the GT4 and mid-engine, but speaking from experience, I really have grown to enjoy the unique characteristic traits of driving a 911 vs. how user friendly and naturally easy the GT4 was to drive at the limit.

GoKart Mozart

You are taking my initial comments out of context. I was referring to original rear engine design, not what it morphed in to after 6,7 or 8 generations. I still want a 911 GT3 someday, because it the better car (for various reasons) IMO. That being said, I want a 991 or 992, that doesn't have the engine hanging way out the back like the original design, which is what I referred to as flawed. The fact that Porsche had to widen the track in the rear excessively, add RWS and continuously move the engine forward only proves that it was so, but that is not to say that what now represents the 911, isn't a world beater top notch design even if you still want to call it a rear engine.

hf1

They say that braking is that last few % diff that separates very good from great drivers. I used to be a mid-engine fan that poo-pooed the rear engine 911 "kool aid" as a Porsche marketing gimmick. I went from Green to Black in a bone stock 987.1 Boxster S (with standard suspension), keeping up with 911's and even GT3's on the way there. Then, as I improved and became faster, it just happened that I replaced the Boxster with a 996 GT3 (mainly for more safety) and I became aware of the huge advantage that rear-engined 911s have when late (trail-) braking into turns. The rear-biased weight distribution becomes EVENLY spread front/rear under strong braking, providing grip on all four patches where most other cars only use the front pair with the rear up in the air. This allows 911s to brake much later into turns and to allocate grip on all four patches as the car flies/dances into the turn. The joyful feeling of a perfectly executed turn in a 911 can not be repeated with any other car. This is followed by massive rear end grip as you catapult out of the corner.

I still love Boxsters. I race one and I am buying a 987.1 Box S tomorrow for open top back-roads fun (miss my first one a lot), but I am now also a rear-engine 911 convert. The narrative behind the 911 "magic" is much more than marketing and "kool aid".

The engine in the new RSR was moved more towards the middle mostly so they can fit larger rear diffusers for larger down-force.

Five12Free

jmartpr

Sooooo...is the new Rumor on the 718 GT4 it will have a rear engine or mid engine design? But I'll add my $0.02
Come on....each design has its Pros and Cons, some drivers will prefer one over the other and some will be faster in rear vs mid and vice versa.
They are different tools and behave differently.....at the end of the day it's the person behind the steering wheel the one that will make the most (or worst) out of the package.