718 GT4?
07-14-2019, 07:21 AM
#8236
Absolutely significant. Never quoted any report as saying the differences were significant. That is my logic based upon the information we all have been provided to date.
Definition of Significant as per Oxford Dictionary:
"large or important enough to have an effect or to be noticed"
* Increase in power from 283kw to 309 kw (26kw) - significant
* Increase in torque across 5000-6800rpm - significant
* 50 percent increase in downforce without change in drag - significant
* Faster by 12 seconds on the Nordschiefe - significant
* Change in dampers, torque vectoring - significant
* and many other changes (still yet to be disclosed) including small change in tyres (N0 to N1)- all significant
You could argue the price change is a significant change as well. Improvement costs. But the 981 GT4 was just a beginning and priced to ready the market for the next generation. The differences/changes/improvements between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 are significant. Matter of opinion if those changes are significant enough for those of you that have a 981 GT4 to move up to a 718 GT4. Its a faster car by 1-2 seconds per minute on a track - significant for a GT car. Another amazing car from Porsche.
Definition of Significant as per Oxford Dictionary:
"large or important enough to have an effect or to be noticed"
* Increase in power from 283kw to 309 kw (26kw) - significant
* Increase in torque across 5000-6800rpm - significant
* 50 percent increase in downforce without change in drag - significant
* Faster by 12 seconds on the Nordschiefe - significant
* Change in dampers, torque vectoring - significant
* and many other changes (still yet to be disclosed) including small change in tyres (N0 to N1)- all significant
You could argue the price change is a significant change as well. Improvement costs. But the 981 GT4 was just a beginning and priced to ready the market for the next generation. The differences/changes/improvements between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 are significant. Matter of opinion if those changes are significant enough for those of you that have a 981 GT4 to move up to a 718 GT4. Its a faster car by 1-2 seconds per minute on a track - significant for a GT car. Another amazing car from Porsche.
Good on you on your reply, l'm not going to argue with the small differences.
The 981 and the 718 are "Significant " cars in their own right. Porsche are very good at incremental changes from one series to the next, in my view they build some of the best cars in the world. We are very lucky to have either one.
All the very best to you and your future 718.
07-14-2019, 07:24 AM
#8237
Absolutely significant. Never quoted any report as saying the differences were significant. That is my logic based upon the information we all have been provided to date.
Definition of Significant as per Oxford Dictionary:
"large or important enough to have an effect or to be noticed"
* Increase in power from 283kw to 309 kw (26kw) - significant
* Increase in torque across 5000-6800rpm - significant
* 50 percent increase in downforce without change in drag - significant
* Faster by 12 seconds on the Nordschiefe - significant
* Change in dampers, torque vectoring - significant
* and many other changes (still yet to be disclosed) including small change in tyres (N0 to N1)- all significant
You could argue the price change is a significant change as well. Improvement costs. But the 981 GT4 was just a beginning and priced to ready the market for the next generation. The differences/changes/improvements between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 are significant. Matter of opinion if those changes are significant enough for those of you that have a 981 GT4 to move up to a 718 GT4. Its a faster car by 1-2 seconds per minute on a track - significant for a GT car. Another amazing car from Porsche.
Definition of Significant as per Oxford Dictionary:
"large or important enough to have an effect or to be noticed"
* Increase in power from 283kw to 309 kw (26kw) - significant
* Increase in torque across 5000-6800rpm - significant
* 50 percent increase in downforce without change in drag - significant
* Faster by 12 seconds on the Nordschiefe - significant
* Change in dampers, torque vectoring - significant
* and many other changes (still yet to be disclosed) including small change in tyres (N0 to N1)- all significant
You could argue the price change is a significant change as well. Improvement costs. But the 981 GT4 was just a beginning and priced to ready the market for the next generation. The differences/changes/improvements between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 are significant. Matter of opinion if those changes are significant enough for those of you that have a 981 GT4 to move up to a 718 GT4. Its a faster car by 1-2 seconds per minute on a track - significant for a GT car. Another amazing car from Porsche.
You obviously don't need convincing either way, you should definitely buy a 718 GT4.
(even though its softer, heavier, quieter and by the sounds of all the reviews, less raw, mechanical, charismatic and less challenging to drive than the original, whose engine is the one Porsche tellingly chose for the proper racecar...
) Just kidding of course, I'm naturally 981 biased - you make good points on the differences and so far the reviews are glowing. The 718 GT4 will be great and the two cars will be forever defined by their differences, and each will be the better for it.
Actually what we should all celebrate is that just like all the wonderful 911 GT cars over the years, the GT4 is now developing a history of its own, which only adds to the hobby and interest aspect of all of our ownership of either car - long may it continue.
The following 4 users liked this post by Bausse9:
07-14-2019, 07:43 AM
#8238
From one of the more recent reviews... This reviewer goes on to compare the detailed on-paper differences, but when it comes down to comparing the overall experience behind the wheel, they have this to say...
So far we’ve driven it only on track but, as it’s intended to be a road car for track-day enthusiasts, that’s perhaps no bad thing. What’s it like? Rather like the last Cayman GT4 to be honest. But, before you start thinking that’s an immediate negative, it isn’t. The old car was simply stunning to drive, and the fact that the new GT4 retains its pedigree DNA with a smattering of extra grunt and grip is all that we might’ve hoped for. It’s gladly received.
So far we’ve driven it only on track but, as it’s intended to be a road car for track-day enthusiasts, that’s perhaps no bad thing. What’s it like? Rather like the last Cayman GT4 to be honest. But, before you start thinking that’s an immediate negative, it isn’t. The old car was simply stunning to drive, and the fact that the new GT4 retains its pedigree DNA with a smattering of extra grunt and grip is all that we might’ve hoped for. It’s gladly received.
07-14-2019, 08:17 AM
#8239
Banned
From one of the more recent reviews... This reviewer goes on to compare the detailed on-paper differences, but when it comes down to comparing the overall experience behind the wheel, they have this to say...
So far we’ve driven it only on track but, as it’s intended to be a road car for track-day enthusiasts, that’s perhaps no bad thing. What’s it like? Rather like the last Cayman GT4 to be honest. But, before you start thinking that’s an immediate negative, it isn’t. The old car was simply stunning to drive, and the fact that the new GT4 retains its pedigree DNA with a smattering of extra grunt and grip is all that we might’ve hoped for. It’s gladly received.
So far we’ve driven it only on track but, as it’s intended to be a road car for track-day enthusiasts, that’s perhaps no bad thing. What’s it like? Rather like the last Cayman GT4 to be honest. But, before you start thinking that’s an immediate negative, it isn’t. The old car was simply stunning to drive, and the fact that the new GT4 retains its pedigree DNA with a smattering of extra grunt and grip is all that we might’ve hoped for. It’s gladly received.
07-14-2019, 09:05 AM
#8240
Pistonheads review.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...--driven/40596
Why would Porsche make the steering and clutch lighter than the 981 ? This I do not understand.
The clutch and steering feel are some of the qualities I really love about the 981.
"Two things you notice immediately: the weight of the steering and the resistance met by the ball of your left foot when you depress the clutch pedal. Both are appreciably lighter now than they were in the previous model, which makes you wonder. Has the Cayman GT4 gone soft?"
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...--driven/40596
Why would Porsche make the steering and clutch lighter than the 981 ? This I do not understand.
The clutch and steering feel are some of the qualities I really love about the 981.
"Two things you notice immediately: the weight of the steering and the resistance met by the ball of your left foot when you depress the clutch pedal. Both are appreciably lighter now than they were in the previous model, which makes you wonder. Has the Cayman GT4 gone soft?"
07-14-2019, 09:30 AM
#8241
Rennlist Member
Pistonheads review.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...--driven/40596
Why would Porsche make the steering and clutch lighter than the 981 ? This I do not understand.
The clutch and steering feel are some of the qualities I really love about the 981.
"Two things you notice immediately: the weight of the steering and the resistance met by the ball of your left foot when you depress the clutch pedal. Both are appreciably lighter now than they were in the previous model, which makes you wonder. Has the Cayman GT4 gone soft?"
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...--driven/40596
Why would Porsche make the steering and clutch lighter than the 981 ? This I do not understand.
The clutch and steering feel are some of the qualities I really love about the 981.
"Two things you notice immediately: the weight of the steering and the resistance met by the ball of your left foot when you depress the clutch pedal. Both are appreciably lighter now than they were in the previous model, which makes you wonder. Has the Cayman GT4 gone soft?"
07-14-2019, 09:31 AM
#8242
I just saw that the full PistonHeads review came out today. They do a good job of looking at all the updates with the 718. A few things I thought were interesting:
There's always a whiff of the old snake oil about downforce claims for road cars. As a rule we should be sceptical. But what is significant here is that there is at least some of the stuff and therefore no lift, which means the car should be stable at high speed. Just let's not pretend it's being squashed hard into the tarmac by that invisible force.
What of the engine? Broadly speaking it runs and feels a lot like the 3.8 in the previous model.
We'll confirm that once we've driven it on the road, but for now it seems as though Porsche has made the Cayman GT4 less demanding, but no less thrilling.
There's always a whiff of the old snake oil about downforce claims for road cars. As a rule we should be sceptical. But what is significant here is that there is at least some of the stuff and therefore no lift, which means the car should be stable at high speed. Just let's not pretend it's being squashed hard into the tarmac by that invisible force.
What of the engine? Broadly speaking it runs and feels a lot like the 3.8 in the previous model.
We'll confirm that once we've driven it on the road, but for now it seems as though Porsche has made the Cayman GT4 less demanding, but no less thrilling.
07-14-2019, 09:40 AM
#8243
Banned
Pistonheads review.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...--driven/40596
Why would Porsche make the steering and clutch lighter than the 981 ? This I do not understand.
The clutch and steering feel are some of the qualities I really love about the 981.
"Two things you notice immediately: the weight of the steering and the resistance met by the ball of your left foot when you depress the clutch pedal. Both are appreciably lighter now than they were in the previous model, which makes you wonder. Has the Cayman GT4 gone soft?"
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...--driven/40596
Why would Porsche make the steering and clutch lighter than the 981 ? This I do not understand.
The clutch and steering feel are some of the qualities I really love about the 981.
"Two things you notice immediately: the weight of the steering and the resistance met by the ball of your left foot when you depress the clutch pedal. Both are appreciably lighter now than they were in the previous model, which makes you wonder. Has the Cayman GT4 gone soft?"
07-14-2019, 09:53 AM
#8244
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Have to say the reviews are excellent and even better than expected.
"Indeed, the chassis-performance bar has been sent into orbit. How high? Put it this way: The 718 Spyder and GT4 may be the two best handling production cars I’ve ever driven" Andy Pilgrim
The difference between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 is significant. Just reading the spec sheet ie 0-100 time or new tyres is indeed very misleading. GT cars are measured by their track credentials not just traffic light games. The 718 GT4 is more rounded and exciting than its predecessor. Other improvements include new dampers and the latest torque vectoring setup. Discovered another improvement ...PSM can be turned off in 2 steps. Not sure that the 981 GT4 had that. Please correct me if so.
As you mention the PDK is a very interesting proposition and one that is tempting me.
"Indeed, the chassis-performance bar has been sent into orbit. How high? Put it this way: The 718 Spyder and GT4 may be the two best handling production cars I’ve ever driven" Andy Pilgrim
The difference between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 is significant. Just reading the spec sheet ie 0-100 time or new tyres is indeed very misleading. GT cars are measured by their track credentials not just traffic light games. The 718 GT4 is more rounded and exciting than its predecessor. Other improvements include new dampers and the latest torque vectoring setup. Discovered another improvement ...PSM can be turned off in 2 steps. Not sure that the 981 GT4 had that. Please correct me if so.
As you mention the PDK is a very interesting proposition and one that is tempting me.
07-14-2019, 09:57 AM
#8245
07-14-2019, 10:13 AM
#8246
I just saw that the full PistonHeads review came out today. They do a good job of looking at all the updates with the 718. A few things I thought were interesting:
There's always a whiff of the old snake oil about downforce claims for road cars. As a rule we should be sceptical. But what is significant here is that there is at least some of the stuff and therefore no lift, which means the car should be stable at high speed. Just let's not pretend it's being squashed hard into the tarmac by that invisible force.
What of the engine? Broadly speaking it runs and feels a lot like the 3.8 in the previous model.
We'll confirm that once we've driven it on the road, but for now it seems as though Porsche has made the Cayman GT4 less demanding, but no less thrilling.
There's always a whiff of the old snake oil about downforce claims for road cars. As a rule we should be sceptical. But what is significant here is that there is at least some of the stuff and therefore no lift, which means the car should be stable at high speed. Just let's not pretend it's being squashed hard into the tarmac by that invisible force.
What of the engine? Broadly speaking it runs and feels a lot like the 3.8 in the previous model.
We'll confirm that once we've driven it on the road, but for now it seems as though Porsche has made the Cayman GT4 less demanding, but no less thrilling.
Aero on track is a wonderful thing - 😀
07-14-2019, 10:17 AM
#8247
Originally Posted by groundhog
Noting snake oil about downforce - whether someone uses it or not is a different matter. It's a GT car after all - it's there to be used. Some will chose to use it and others won't. To claim its snake oil is frankly utter crap - it really is.
07-14-2019, 10:22 AM
#8248
Sorry but that's not really the case - you do not need downforce on public roads. So to suggest it's some form of snake oil is typical piston heads **** 😀
Down force on track matters a lot, moreso downforce without additional drag. Most reviewers recognise important things like handling and composure - this is the important stuff - truly banging on about how hard or soft the clutch peddle feel is - hilarious.
Piston heads would have you think an Austin Healy was the pinnacle of sports car achievement - guess what 25 years ago I owned one - it was stunning to look at and when it worked a complete **** box to drive.
Nothing wrong with an easy clutch and soft fast direct steering as long as both are accurate and reproducible.
Down force on track matters a lot, moreso downforce without additional drag. Most reviewers recognise important things like handling and composure - this is the important stuff - truly banging on about how hard or soft the clutch peddle feel is - hilarious.
Piston heads would have you think an Austin Healy was the pinnacle of sports car achievement - guess what 25 years ago I owned one - it was stunning to look at and when it worked a complete **** box to drive.
Nothing wrong with an easy clutch and soft fast direct steering as long as both are accurate and reproducible.
07-14-2019, 10:28 AM
#8249
Originally Posted by groundhog
Sorry but that's not really the case - you do not need downforce on public roads. So to suggest it's some form of snake oil is typical piston heads **** 😀
Down force on track matters a lot, moreso downforce without additional drag. Most reviewers recognise important things like handling and composure - this is the important stuff - truly banging on about how hard or soft the clutch peddle feel is - hilarious.
Down force on track matters a lot, moreso downforce without additional drag. Most reviewers recognise important things like handling and composure - this is the important stuff - truly banging on about how hard or soft the clutch peddle feel is - hilarious.
07-14-2019, 10:30 AM
#8250
Ok fair enough - picked up the wrong angle👍