718 GT4?
03-16-2018, 09:04 PM
#601
Two reasons. First, it is a much different motor with much more expensive components. It definitely costs more to produce. Two, you don't charge your GT3 customers $150k for a car and then turn around and sell another car with the same motor for $100k. Again, my question, why wouldn't Porsche have done this last time and just dropped a detuned GT3 motor in the GT4?
The second point you state is probably the more significant reason and putting a 4.0L engine from a 150K $ car into a car that costs a 100K $ would not be very well received by the customers who purchased the 150K $ cars. I am not saying porsche will put the 4.0L in the GT3 but was just stating that the 30K $/ 40K $ difference that everyone keeps throwing around for the GT3 engine should really not be that much and the costs will only keep reducing as they produce more of them.
The engine in the overrated BMW M4 GTS which stickered for 135K $ base is really an iteration/version of the 3.0 L S55 which will soon be powering the BMW M2 Competition which is expected to cost around 60K $. We all agree that the legacy water induction technology in the M4 GTS is not worth 75K $. BMW will surely advertise the M2 as having a de-tuned engine and all that but a majority of the components will still be the same. Most people who purchased the M4 GTS/CS or even the base M4 are not going to complain.
The GT2 RS has a version of the engine that powers the turbo S but there is almost a 150K $ difference in prices because the car is marketed differently. Porsche could do the same and "de-tune" the 4.0L engine and also take out some of the bespoke parts and price the GT4 in the 90s and I am sure most people will not complain because the car will be making about 20% less power, will probably not rev to 9K and will not have the same parts that make the 4.0L in the GT3 so special.
03-16-2018, 09:12 PM
#602
Originally Posted by tcsracing1
The GT3 motor indeed costs alot more to manufacture than the 3.8 Carrera motor. However, they have produced so many cars with the GT3 motor now that they are able to keep the cost down on them.
We will most likely see the next GT4 with a 3.8L GT3 motor or a 4.0L GT3, with less expensive internals, lower redline and smaller throttle body.
We will most likely see the next GT4 with a 3.8L GT3 motor or a 4.0L GT3, with less expensive internals, lower redline and smaller throttle body.
I'd love to see it, but I just question whether Porsche's gonna put a high cost dry sump Motorsport engine into its mid range sports car and convertible.
03-16-2018, 09:17 PM
#603
The GT3 motor indeed costs alot more to manufacture than the 3.8 Carrera motor. However, they have produced so many cars with the GT3 motor now that they are able to keep the cost down on them.
We will most likely see the next GT4 with a 3.8L GT3 motor or a 4.0L GT3, with less expensive internals, lower redline and smaller throttle body.
We will most likely see the next GT4 with a 3.8L GT3 motor or a 4.0L GT3, with less expensive internals, lower redline and smaller throttle body.
Here's an older thread where someone was trying to buy a 997 GT3 crate motor:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...nd-tranny.html
That's retail of under 40K $ for the whole engine. It is from the last generation car but still....
Last edited by Gatte; 03-16-2018 at 09:39 PM.
03-17-2018, 12:39 AM
#604
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away....
Posts: 17,106
Likes: 0
Received 256 Likes
on
172 Posts
I am really hoping this is what will happen.
Here's an older thread where someone was trying to buy a 997 GT3 crate motor:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...nd-tranny.html
That's retail of under 40K $ for the whole engine. It is from the last generation car but still....
Here's an older thread where someone was trying to buy a 997 GT3 crate motor:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...nd-tranny.html
That's retail of under 40K $ for the whole engine. It is from the last generation car but still....
03-17-2018, 03:55 AM
#606
03-17-2018, 05:17 AM
#607
Three Wheelin'
This whole 4.0 from the GT3 but detuned to 420hp is just marketing speak. That's like saying the last GT4 had the GT3 3.8 just detuned to 385hp. The block and maybe a few accessories were the same but that was about it. The difference from the 991S 3.8 was smaller tb, intake, and tune. The difference from the GT3 3.8 was a lot more. Good thing too since it saved us from the finger follower issues. In the 981/991 gen a crate GT3 3.8 was something like twice the price of the standard 3.8. I'm not saying a 420hp na flat 6 718 GT4 isn't exciting, it is, but Porsche simply dropping in a GT3 engine with a smaller tb and charging less sounds like a pipe dream.
03-17-2018, 08:09 AM
#608
Rennlist Member
This whole 4.0 from the GT3 but detuned to 420hp is just marketing speak. That's like saying the last GT4 had the GT3 3.8 just detuned to 385hp. The block and maybe a few accessories were the same but that was about it. The difference from the 991S 3.8 was smaller tb, intake, and tune. The difference from the GT3 3.8 was a lot more. Good thing too since it saved us from the finger follower issues. In the 981/991 gen a crate GT3 3.8 was something like twice the price of the standard 3.8. I'm not saying a 420hp na flat 6 718 GT4 isn't exciting, it is, but Porsche simply dropping in a GT3 engine with a smaller tb and charging less sounds like a pipe dream.
03-17-2018, 09:38 AM
#610
Rennlist Member
03-17-2018, 01:13 PM
#611
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sierra Madre, Ca.
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03-17-2018, 01:38 PM
#612
Rennlist Member
03-17-2018, 02:47 PM
#613
Cruisin'
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems pretty clear the next GT3 will have a turbo motor with 550+ hp and torque to rip your eyes out. The 991.2 will be a nostalgia piece for those wedded to the NA motor, but as a track weapon, it will be overwhelmed by the newer car. So why not give the 4.0 motor a proper sendoff and put at least 475 hp of it into a GT4 RS, with real RS underpinnings, and sell a limited number for $135K — in addition to a less potent but more streetable base GT4? Porsche will sell every one it makes and have a better option for its GT4 customer race car. The 911 fans will still think the Cayman is inferior, and if the GT3 track junkies find themselves getting beaten by the GT4 RS — and they will — they will get the new turbo version that much sooner. The factory wins.
03-17-2018, 03:37 PM
#614
Also, i remember reading that the 991.2 GT3 has 7 pumps to keep the oil flowing optimally. That is a lot of pumps
and more things that could go wrong.With a lower redline, it might not need that many pumps and also save some costs.
03-17-2018, 04:16 PM
#615
Rennlist Member
Two reasons. First, it is a much different motor with much more expensive components. It definitely costs more to produce. Two, you don't charge your GT3 customers $150k for a car and then turn around and sell another car with the same motor for $100k. Again, my question, why wouldn't Porsche have done this last time and just dropped a detuned GT3 motor in the GT4?
As Gatte mentioned, economies of scales. Although I doubt the savings from scale would cover the increase cost of material from steel to titanium so I agree with you. IMHO, it'll be the GT3 4.0L block with NO coating, less advanced/rigid valvetrain, smaller TB, steel rods, dry sump making 420-425. The lack of coating and less efficient intake system will force rpm down to 8k max and Porsche will say they had to shrink the intake to fit in the 781 engine bay.