718 GT4?
09-06-2018, 10:45 PM
#3196
Rennlist Member
I've posted this previously but this is what I'm assuming:
The 2016 Cayman GTS had a base price of $76,195 compared to the 2018 Cayman GTS of $81,750. This is a 7.2% price hike between generations, which I think is reasonable for inflation. If the 981 GT4 had a base price of $85,600 we have to assume as a bare minimum the base price of the 718 GT4 will be $91,750 which is only ~$6,000 but like many here we assume it could be $10,000+. Additionally, the options have gone up in price. My conservative optimal build: buckets, dual zone climate, satin wheels, sports chrono, PCM, steel brakes, full leather, carbon trim, etc. $104k. I expect the same build in a 718 GT4 to be ~$112-115k
The 2016 Cayman GTS had a base price of $76,195 compared to the 2018 Cayman GTS of $81,750. This is a 7.2% price hike between generations, which I think is reasonable for inflation. If the 981 GT4 had a base price of $85,600 we have to assume as a bare minimum the base price of the 718 GT4 will be $91,750 which is only ~$6,000 but like many here we assume it could be $10,000+. Additionally, the options have gone up in price. My conservative optimal build: buckets, dual zone climate, satin wheels, sports chrono, PCM, steel brakes, full leather, carbon trim, etc. $104k. I expect the same build in a 718 GT4 to be ~$112-115k
09-06-2018, 10:50 PM
#3197
Burning Brakes
I have to think this is pretty darn close on pricing. Since most 981’s seem to be selling $5k-$10k under sticker, your roughly $20k more, plus tax, to move up to the new model with 35 more hp. Buying a used GT4 and adding the x51 would be potentially more expensive than buying the new model with warranty if pricing is what’s suggested above.
09-06-2018, 11:27 PM
#3198
Drifting
Now is a great time to buy a 981 GT4 as the demand is really low, throw on Dundon headers with a tune for $5k and you're at ~439hp. I think once the 718 GT4 is announced, the demand for current GT4's will increase as people will see the minor improvement and large price delta. I've been in the market for a few months and the guys that want to sell, are being very flexible on the price >10k off MSRP.
09-07-2018, 08:00 AM
#3199
I agree with the dundon headers and tune but I do not believe demand will go up once the 718 is announced. The price will go down on the 981 once the 718 hit the streets. It will be better in every measurable way, looks will be personal preference. Only way they would go up is if the 718 is a 4cyl which is 99.99% not going to happen. Love the 981 and nothing wrong with buying one now but don't be under the illusion that it's price will hold where it's at.
09-07-2018, 01:20 PM
#3200
I agree with the dundon headers and tune but I do not believe demand will go up once the 718 is announced. The price will go down on the 981 once the 718 hit the streets. It will be better in every measurable way, looks will be personal preference. Only way they would go up is if the 718 is a 4cyl which is 99.99% not going to happen. Love the 981 and nothing wrong with buying one now but don't be under the illusion that it's price will hold where it's at.
09-07-2018, 01:25 PM
#3201
Banned
Now is a great time to buy a 981 GT4 as the demand is really low, throw on Dundon headers with a tune for $5k and you're at ~439hp. I think once the 718 GT4 is announced, the demand for current GT4's will increase as people will see the minor improvement and large price delta. I've been in the market for a few months and the guys that want to sell, are being very flexible on the price >10k off MSRP.
09-07-2018, 01:36 PM
#3202
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I happen to believe the information about an X51 version of the previous motor (either 3.8L or 4.0L) making ~420hp. I'm just curious how you would define a baby-GT3 motor in your mind. Specifically, what parts are changed and how is 100hp removed from its performance envelope (520hp made from same GT3 motor in RS)?
09-07-2018, 01:52 PM
#3203
Banned
I happen to believe the information about an X51 version of the previous motor (either 3.8L or 4.0L) making ~420hp. I'm just curious how you would define a baby-GT3 motor in your mind. Specifically, what parts are changed and how is 100hp removed from its performance envelope (520hp made from same GT3 motor in RS)?
It could be just through lower volume 500hp * 3.4/4.0 = 425hp, or neuter a 3.8L GT3 motor in some other ways.
It may even be more economical for them to stick with a single N/A motor family across their whole GT range instead of additionally keeping the shelved Carrera S 3.8 motor alive.
Just thinking out-loud. What do you think?
09-07-2018, 02:00 PM
#3204
Three Wheelin'
Not an expert but you'd only need to remove 70hp off of a 4.0L GT3.
It could be just through lower volume 500hp * 3.4/4.0 = 425hp, or neuter a 3.8L GT3 motor in some other ways.
It may even be more economical for them to stick with a single N/A motor family across their whole GT range instead of additionally keeping the shelved Carrera S 3.8 motor alive.
Just thinking out-loud. What do you think?
It could be just through lower volume 500hp * 3.4/4.0 = 425hp, or neuter a 3.8L GT3 motor in some other ways.
It may even be more economical for them to stick with a single N/A motor family across their whole GT range instead of additionally keeping the shelved Carrera S 3.8 motor alive.
Just thinking out-loud. What do you think?
09-07-2018, 03:25 PM
#3206
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Not an expert but you'd only need to remove 70hp off of a 4.0L GT3.
It could be just through lower volume 500hp * 3.4/4.0 = 425hp, or neuter a 3.8L GT3 motor in some other ways.
It may even be more economical for them to stick with a single N/A motor family across their whole GT range instead of additionally keeping the shelved Carrera S 3.8 motor alive.
Just thinking out-loud. What do you think?
It could be just through lower volume 500hp * 3.4/4.0 = 425hp, or neuter a 3.8L GT3 motor in some other ways.
It may even be more economical for them to stick with a single N/A motor family across their whole GT range instead of additionally keeping the shelved Carrera S 3.8 motor alive.
Just thinking out-loud. What do you think?
To stick with the same motor as GT3/RS, this requires no additional parts but this motor is Expensive to build (disproportionately so for a car costing 5-figures). And then you have to remove 100hp by choking the intake and exhaust or by limiting the opening angle of the throttle butterfly and redline with the ECU (all seemingly easily and cheaply reversed to make a car as fast as an RS for half the money - Porsche does not like that outcome).
Or, use an existing motor (3.8L X51) that is inexpensive to build and requires no significant tuning (up or down) to arrive at the target outputs - Winner...
09-07-2018, 04:24 PM
#3207
Race Director
To reduce displacement means adding MANY new parts to the inventory count (cylinder bore size, pistons, rods, crankshafts, etc), so this seems like an inefficient way to get there. Also, while scaling down the displacement to 3.4L would result in the target Horsepower, you will have a resulting torque that is much lower than the last GT4.
To stick with the same motor as GT3/RS, this requires no additional parts but this motor is Expensive to build (disproportionately so for a car costing 5-figures). And then you have to remove 100hp by choking the intake and exhaust or by limiting the opening angle of the throttle butterfly and redline with the ECU (all seemingly easily and cheaply reversed to make a car as fast as an RS for half the money - Porsche does not like that outcome).
Or, use an existing motor (3.8L X51) that is inexpensive to build and requires no significant tuning (up or down) to arrive at the target outputs - Winner...
To stick with the same motor as GT3/RS, this requires no additional parts but this motor is Expensive to build (disproportionately so for a car costing 5-figures). And then you have to remove 100hp by choking the intake and exhaust or by limiting the opening angle of the throttle butterfly and redline with the ECU (all seemingly easily and cheaply reversed to make a car as fast as an RS for half the money - Porsche does not like that outcome).
Or, use an existing motor (3.8L X51) that is inexpensive to build and requires no significant tuning (up or down) to arrive at the target outputs - Winner...
this makes most sense to me.
09-07-2018, 05:37 PM
#3210
Drifting
I agree with the dundon headers and tune but I do not believe demand will go up once the 718 is announced. The price will go down on the 981 once the 718 hit the streets. It will be better in every measurable way, looks will be personal preference. Only way they would go up is if the 718 is a 4cyl which is 99.99% not going to happen. Love the 981 and nothing wrong with buying one now but don't be under the illusion that it's price will hold where it's at.
Porsche built 2.5x as many GT4’s as originally planned. It will be interesting to see the pricing strategy for the new car.
I do think the GT4 market is more price sensitive than the 911/GT3 market. It seems as though more buyers step up (financially) to the GT4 which may help create demand for the .1 GT4 if there is a significant price increase.