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whoa. that definitely does not look right. Schroth 4pt w/ ASM should still have the shoulder belts at a 0-20 degree angle from parallel to the floor. the 4pt may not require a cage but the shoulder belts still need to be mounted appropriately, maybe even more so for the 4pts since they don't have a sub belt to keep the shoulder harnesses and lap belt from riding up.
Schroth designed this 4 pt system specifically for the GT3/4 LWBs and that's how the shoulder belts mount per their install instructions. The lap belts do not ride up much as long as one tightens them firmly first but there is slight movement (see my complaints about that in an earlier post) in the shoulders even when tightened down due to (IMO) the lack of a sub belt and the length of the shoulder belts. I won't argue with your logic above other then to say the lap belts are fairly low in relation to the driver given the geometry of the LWBs and submarining doesn't appear to be an issue with this system. It's the play in the shoulders that worries me and would seem to negate the benefit of a HANS to some extent.
If I remember correctly, one of the shoulder harnesses on the Schroth 4-point is designed to lengthen in an impact causing the torso to twist driving the buttocks into the seat just as a 3-point belt does. That is why a sub belt is not needed. That may also reduce the compressive force on the seat back when the shoulder harnesses are attached to the seat bottom.
Schroth designed this 4 pt system specifically for the GT3/4 LWBs and that's how the shoulder belts mount per their install instructions. The lap belts do not ride up much as long as one tightens them firmly first but there is slight movement (see my complaints about that in an earlier post) in the shoulders even when tightened down due to (IMO) the lack of a sub belt and the length of the shoulder belts. I won't argue with your logic above other then to say the lap belts are fairly low in relation to the driver given the geometry of the LWBs and submarining doesn't appear to be an issue with this system. It's the play in the shoulders that worries me and would seem to negate the benefit of a HANS to some extent.
huh, you're right. Schroth specifically stated a floor mount behind the seats was not okay for my old rallye 3 harness with asm but it's good to go as you have it installed for the rallye 4 with asm. no idea what the difference is but if it's safe, looks like the best zero modification harness option.
huh, you're right. Schroth specifically stated a floor mount behind the seats was not okay for my old rallye 3 harness with asm but it's good to go as you have it installed for the rallye 4 with asm. no idea what the difference is but if it's safe, looks like the best zero modification harness option.
Guys,
Thank for the excellent discussion on the 4pt system. My goal is to do as much zero mod as possible.
Hi Guys!
I am thinking about setting up my GT4 for Track days.
The Track is a combination of mostly Fast sweepers and bands and power straight with not much elevation change through the track.
An instructor and racer tell me that the car should set up with more negative camber at the rear axle.
A friend with his GT4 set up as front -0.8 rear -1.0 , font Mid, rear Hard swaybar. His car does feel very stable on 150km/h fast sweepers.
I am confused when the front page of this post suggested having more negative camber in the front axle, which is very normal set up on most front engine cars. But is it really suitable for our MR layout GT4 as well? Any thoughts and explanation will help! Thanks .
Front at leat 0.5° more than rear in my book. Otherwise you have a very understeer-y car. I run -2.2° front (maxed out using standard suspension parts and shims only) and -1.5° rear. Still, you have some understeer, but only at the very limit and there it's fine.
Hi Guys,
After a pack of RSS shims and some setting and testing on the street.
My car has around -2.0 in the front axel and -1.8 at the rear axel.
Cars feel like it is on rails now. Crazy grip with the trofeo R tyres.
But straight line launch seems trickier now...
The Alignment shop agreed with what you guys say after testing the car and put more
Negative camber on the front axel. Hard setting in the rear seay bar.
I will futher test the car on track. And see how my times goes with other GT4s on track.
An instructor and racer tell me that the car should set up with more negative camber at the rear axle.....
=====>
i do not know of ANY street car that is faster with such alignment.
however, when one first start to track, i do recommend more camber in the back.
i used to run it that way. car pushes and you feel safer, facilitates learning.
but if you want a faster car. ALWAYS more front camber.
He actually races and Podium in Guia Macau and different race series for years,
being instructor for the Ferrari FXXK launch events in Asia etc.
I have no doubt in his driving skills.
Yep, I am a novice driver maybe he wants me feel safer on track.
The car really feels glued on the road, if I follow the basics driving on track.
I won't have any trouble handling it =D
Hope my driving skills can grow with the GT4 on track !
Just passed 32,000 miles on my baby (no, not a typo). She is my daily driver and I have a 200 mile/day commute which I try to spread out among all my cars but you guess how well that works out. Lol
So, the front rotors have cracks in the middle holes and a lip on the edge. Backs are not bad for 32k. I am headed back to COTA in February and need to replace them. I run 2:23's at COTA on re71's so not the fastest but not the head of the train either. Lol
So what to do? I read the original article regarding the AP's and the giro disc. Now I hear Brembo is having a sale with all four rotary plus pads for $4500. But I can get the fronts from AP or giro for less than $1800. Or all for less than the Brembo's.
Plus the little voice in my ear is saying I got +32k miles off the OEM''s. Total 18 days at COTA, HALLET, Cresson, and Eagles Canyon.
My buddy Mike said when he heard how many miles I had that I need to brake harder, my reply was to go faster, you need to hardly brake.
Thoughts, experiences? Thanks in advance,
Steve
Last edited by orthodx2000; 12-05-2016 at 10:47 PM.
Reason: wrong time for COTA lap
Just passed 32,000 miles on my baby (no, not a typo). She is my daily driver and I have a 200 mile/day commute which I try to spread out among all my cars but you guess how well that works out. Lol
So, the front rotors have cracks in the middle holes and a lip on the edge. Backs are not bad for 32k. I am headed back to COTA in February and need to replace them. I run 2:23's at COTA on re71's so not the fastest but not the head of the train either. Lol
So what to do? I read the original article regarding the AP's and the giro disc. Now I hear Brembo is having a sale with all four rotary plus pads for $4500. But I can get the fronts from AP or giro for less than $1800. Or all for less than the Brembo's.
Plus the little voice in my ear is saying I got +32k miles off the OEM''s. Total 18 days at COTA, HALLET, Cresson, and Eagles Canyon.
My buddy Mike said when he heard how many miles I had that I need to brake harder, my reply was to go faster, you need to hardly brake.
11-29-2016, 11:50 AM
