BGB Motorsports

Okay...so, if reading this correctly, the single biggest push for shorter 1-2 gears is from the folks looking for spirited street driving who don't frequent the track and the warranty period is the window in which we have to operate, right?

GTgears

Yep. Once Pete Stout reported to folks that the autoplipper functions on a 2-1 downshift on the fly I really thought the conversations from canyon carvers asking for 2nd gear would die down substantially.

As a gearbox manufacturer, I do not understand the aversion to 1st gear. Sure, there were historical reasons for it, but for over a decade now we've been gearing racecars to be able to use 1st on track. In racing we call it an active 1st. A street guy would hate it because you have to drop the clutch to get off the line. But it allows you to use all of your gears.

With these GT4s, we have a car where you can use all of your gears. The difficult shift is the 3-2 where you cross the gate. That's the one that is hardest to make cleanly. I think it is wonderful that you've got a situation where 2nd is set such that you can downshift to 1st, on the same plane, to get out of a tight country hairpin. I think if more people try to drive their cars this way, instead of staying in 2nd, we will see fewer and fewer complaints.

Anyone who wants to use their GT4 for stoplight racing? It's your car. Do what you want, but we both know that you aren't going to spend $4000 to get 2 tenths 0-60.

Accel Junky

I can see this is going downhill in a hurry...

GTgears

Not really. If you guys build it I will come. I just have a healthy skepticism that there are enough of you. But I've been proven wrong before.

The PDK LSD might not exist if it weren't for Tecce. For over a year I told him I make racecar parts and the cars weren't racing. He swore they would be raced. So I said wire me a deposit, and I'll make it for you. The bastard did.

Took almost 2 years to sell the first batch. Since then I've had to manufacuture them pretty much annually, which is pretty typical for my slower moving LSDs.

Speaking of which, I'm really surprised there isn't more conversation and complaints about the anemic factory LSD. I suspect when more guys get them on track and start smoking rear brakes they will start getting swapped out. I'm pretty confident that the first $3000 guys spend on their gearbox will be the LSD and NOT replacement gears.

stout

I'd have to go back to look, but while the GT4's first gear is indeed accessible and useful in some corners, we're talking about some pretty slow corners, and then only for but a moment. Iirc, second and third are just 10-15 mph too tall—leaving the shift out of first to second too soon to allow first to function as the new second. Again, I'd have to spend some more time with the car to say it's so, but I suspect a lot of owners can speak to this now.

Bottom line: I do think that whoever is first to market with a real solution for 1-5 or a revised final drive plus a taller sixth stands to make some GT4 drivers very happy. Whether such a venture can be profitable is another matter, of course...

erik_plus8

I can think of at least one GTS owner that might be interested too... Haven't taken delivery yet but almost 130km/h in second gear already worries me a fair bit...

Spyder Man

I am surprised some people still treat this car as a full on track car...

This car is a street car foremost which is also designed and engineered to be very good on the track.

I wouldn't buy this car just for tracking because there are other cheaper and more hardcore cars available for that purpose. The lotus Elise/Exige series for one and I would have more fun in those cars as well.

Before someone start talking about track time let us be realistic here. Nobody is going to earn prize money or get signed up by a factory team if they are 2 seconds faster in a GT4 than in a Lotus. It's all about having fun in a competent car.

The great thing about the GT4 is it is comfortable and practical enough to be enjoyed on the road and is also really great and fun on the track.

The problem with the current gearing is it is not fun to drive on the road where most owners spend most of their time in the car. This can be changed if the gearing is more suited for street driving. The 996 GT2 had street gearing but is also extremely efficient for tracking at its time.

Da Hapa

Many of us are in the United States and as such, buying a new Lotus Elise or Exige isn't an option.

IMOA

Im really surprised that you don't have fun driving it on the street. Using some local examples to you the hill climb I mentioned where you can constantly use 1-2-3 was Macquarie pass/jambaroo road/kangaroo valley. I thought it was sensational there. On quicker but still twisty stuff like the old road I find I'm using mainly 2-3 and a bit of 4 where in other cars it's really just been 3-4. Now on the quicker stuff like putty, bylong, Goulburn-Oberon there's a lot less gear changes but on those roads you are moving at a fair clip so they're not the sorts of roads you're looking to bang through gears on.

So I'm confused, what roads have you found the GT4 to be not fun on?

Accel Junky

You upshifting at redline in 2nd?

IMOA

Generally between 7000rpm and redline yes but my gearing comments will make a lot more sense to someone from Sydney who knows the roads I'm talking about. Thing is that I've very rarely used 2nd on the street before and 1st was only useful for the sort of hairpin that you were basically stopping at to get around. What I'm finding with the GT4 is a lot of the roads which have corners in the 50-65mph range which always need 3rd can be taken in 2nd in the GT4. Maybe it's a Sydney thing but theres a lot of roads around here which are dominated by corners in this sort of speed range to the extent that I'm actually changing gears more than what I do in a toyobaru 86!

Now, I would like 3-4-5 to be shorter and if I had a choice I'd probably have 2nd a touch shorter but what people are asking for in terms of preferred 2nd gear gearing and the problem it creates in a GT4 is imo wildly overstated. Like I've said, gears go down as well as up, people might be surprised if the shifted down to 2nd and 1st more often.

Spyder Man

You have your driving style, others have their driving style.

In Sydney the normal road speed is 50-60km/h. Occasionally 80km on some roads and 80-110km/h on freeway.

Straight out 2nd gear I will lose my license for
6 months on a normal road
3 months on a freeway that has a speed limit of 80km/h

What's to debate about?

hadokenny

Everyone is supposed to drive like IMOA apparently... otherwise you are doing it wrong, BRO! And if you drive the GT4 on the street, you bought the wrong car. /sarcasm

IMOA

OK, I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about 'sunday drive' roads, not suburban streets. My point was that on those sunday drive roads where on other cars you were using 3rd for a lot of corners that on the GT4 you're using 2nd so you actually end up changing gears more often, this has certainly been my experience on the roads I emntioned.

However on the sorts of suburban streets you're talking about to be honest I'm not real interested in redlining at all to be honest, I typically bumble about in th 2-3000rpm range. And to be honest, there isn't a car you can redline in 2nd in those 50/60/80kmh roads and even short geared cars like the toyobaru I mentioned earlier redline in 2nd at 100kmh.

I am wondering though, before saying that a GT4 was no fun on the street, have you actually driven one?


Yeah, whatever I guess. I drive my GT4 on the street an enjoy it immensely, thats why I was so surprised that Spyder Man said you couldn't have any fun in a GT4 on the street. I do think that it's irresponsible to push the limits of a GT4 on public roads though as that would be just way too fast. However that's nothing to do with gearing, thats due to the huge grip it has. If you do want to push the limits of a car in a public setting something like an MX5 or a toyobaru 86 would be a more responsible choice imo. That said, I do think that if you really are pushing the limits you should be off the street and on a track. This has nothing to do with dick measuring, it's about enjoying our hobby in a safe environment.

And finally, in regards to 'drive like IMOA', all I've said is that with the gearing corners that with the GT4's gearing 1st and 2nd gear become usable in far more circumstances than with shorter geared cars.

usctrojanGT3

I'm one of those guys who needs a 987.2 PDK LSD for my car which came with the OEM LSD. Hopefully you'll be able to get one to Betim so he can install it in my soon-to-be race car.