GT4 - Unlocking the Power Potential!
03-02-2016, 03:31 AM
#436
Rennlist Member
I think I n order to get a balanced upgrade, you probably have to do a tune to get the correct ( or balanced) result
Your giving the car more ability to breath but how it supposed to know to add more fuel etc..? I could be wrong but it seems when you change one thing, others need to change as well???
That is how it works with my older Porsche which runs a piggy back
03-02-2016, 03:55 AM
#437
As nice as that would be (Hoping for increased power with just those upgrades )
I think I n order to get a balanced upgrade, you probably have to do a tune to get the correct ( or balanced) result
Your giving the car more ability to breath but how it supposed to know to add more fuel etc..? I could be wrong but it seems when you change one thing, others need to change as well???
That is how it works with my older Porsche which runs a piggy back
I think I n order to get a balanced upgrade, you probably have to do a tune to get the correct ( or balanced) result
Your giving the car more ability to breath but how it supposed to know to add more fuel etc..? I could be wrong but it seems when you change one thing, others need to change as well???
That is how it works with my older Porsche which runs a piggy back
After all, car manufacturers build cars to let them run in all sorts of environments -- all the way from the dry and cold climates in Canada to hot+humid in Thailand.
03-02-2016, 04:05 AM
#438
Rennlist Member
ECUs don't just blindly throw in the same air/fuel mixtures regardless of inputs. The A/F works within a set of preset parameters and limits. So generally speaking altering air flows by a bit will not "throw things off" per se horribly. Chances are the factory software is able to accommodate the extra air within its tolerance.
After all, car manufacturers build cars to let them run in all sorts of environments -- all the way from the dry and cold climates in Canada to hot+humid in Thailand.
After all, car manufacturers build cars to let them run in all sorts of environments -- all the way from the dry and cold climates in Canada to hot+humid in Thailand.
But I think a key phrase here would be," To a limit "
"Or within certain tolerances" but to get only 1/2 the HP or less out of a mod of this extent, is kinda crazy, but hey whatever...
03-02-2016, 05:06 AM
#439
what we need is a bit of zing up top, not turbo torque low down, one will never see 3k revs ! bar at the Traffic light GP :-)
look at a GT3 that only makes max torque at 6.2k rev's
why do people want torque in a track car at 2.5k revs ?
serious question
03-02-2016, 06:33 AM
#440
What I want is a power kick from 6000 to 7400 and then a plateau to the redline (the 991 Carrera S with X51 pretty much achieves this) instead of a plateau from 6000 and a dive after 7400.
03-02-2016, 07:26 AM
#442
The X51 power kit is the one thing missing in the GT4. I know there's been lots of justification of why it was uneconomical for Porsche to implement it but I still don't swallow it.
When Porsche was already building the 991 with the kit it would have been so much cheaper for Porsche to make some minor packaging mods to fit it in the GT4 than for BGB to do that plus buy and fit the intake manifold, intake camshafts and headers (on top of what we have already paid Porsche for standard ones), plus set up the porting and polishing, plus strip and refit the front of the car as required to fit the extra radiator, yet presumably BGB will be able to do all this for a price people are willing to pay.
Surely the cost to Porsche of the X51 packaging mods would be small compared to that of its development and testing of the all-new rear suspension and aero.
And for Porsche to say they didn't know whether people would buy a low production run of a Motorsport Cayman for 10% less than the price of a base Carrera...
I remain convinced that the reason is either model hierarchy or headroom for an RS.
When Porsche was already building the 991 with the kit it would have been so much cheaper for Porsche to make some minor packaging mods to fit it in the GT4 than for BGB to do that plus buy and fit the intake manifold, intake camshafts and headers (on top of what we have already paid Porsche for standard ones), plus set up the porting and polishing, plus strip and refit the front of the car as required to fit the extra radiator, yet presumably BGB will be able to do all this for a price people are willing to pay.
Surely the cost to Porsche of the X51 packaging mods would be small compared to that of its development and testing of the all-new rear suspension and aero.
And for Porsche to say they didn't know whether people would buy a low production run of a Motorsport Cayman for 10% less than the price of a base Carrera...
I remain convinced that the reason is either model hierarchy or headroom for an RS.
03-02-2016, 09:08 AM
#445
Can't make the GT4 too awesome. Need some room for 981.2 GT4, future GT4RS and all that ... Haha
03-02-2016, 09:56 AM
#446
Seems like they had a very limited development budget. They spent it on aero, rear suspension, and muffler. I'm guessing the next one will venture further.
03-02-2016, 12:02 PM
#447
Racer
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Porsche has been burned before, and almost died several times by upsetting the model hierarchy - those are lessons not yet lost on their corporate structure and board.
Imagine this GT4 version as a "proof of concept" for market validation... it may not seem like a big deal to us, but this is a huge deal in the history of Porsche... a Motorsports division car that is NOT a 911 derivative. Uncharted territory.
You can bet your *** that there is an X51 development mule running around out there, and they are loving every minute of it. But who knows if it will ever see the light of day... the GT4 is a great value overall, and I bet Porsche is watching closely for any cannibalism of the GT3 sales in contrast... they make a lot more profit on that car. Plus heritage. Plus 911. Plus, plus, plus...
03-02-2016, 01:31 PM
#448
For a track car no one will see 3k revs !
what we need is a bit of zing up top, not turbo torque low down, one will never see 3k revs ! bar at the Traffic light GP :-)
look at a GT3 that only makes max torque at 6.2k rev's
why do people want torque in a track car at 2.5k revs ?
serious question
what we need is a bit of zing up top, not turbo torque low down, one will never see 3k revs ! bar at the Traffic light GP :-)
look at a GT3 that only makes max torque at 6.2k rev's
why do people want torque in a track car at 2.5k revs ?
serious question
This is solo racing atspeeds between 30mph and 75mph, which is done mostly in second gear.
So, more acceleration is needed more often between 30mph and 45mph.
The auto-rev-matching may help the rare second-to-first shift, but for
autocross we want instant torque wherever we are, and a 'straight' is
anywhere we can touch the gas pedal to the mat for a half-second...
The video in my sig has a snippet that includes two 'straights' in the first
10 seconds or so....
03-02-2016, 03:32 PM
#449
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1. Which plenum are you using with the X51 manifold?
2. Is any any power left on the table by not being able to use the IPD
The reason I ask is that I was about to buy the IPD plenum + 82mm TB as an early upgrade and come back later for 4.0 + X51.
03-02-2016, 03:42 PM
#450
Since the IPD wil not mate, two questions:
1. Which plenum are you using with the X51 manifold?
2. Is any any power left on the table by not being able to use the IPD
The reason I ask is that I was about to buy the IPD plenum + 82mm TB as an early upgrade and come back later for 4.0 + X51.
1. Which plenum are you using with the X51 manifold?
2. Is any any power left on the table by not being able to use the IPD
The reason I ask is that I was about to buy the IPD plenum + 82mm TB as an early upgrade and come back later for 4.0 + X51.
Headers on the other hand, totally reusable - and likely necessary.