What I Learned While Trying to Buy a Used Porsche
05-21-2017, 01:31 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
What I Learned While Trying to Buy a Used Porsche
After a couple of months of looking and researching Porsches, I finally bought a used one and have it in my garage; it is a 2003 996 Turbo with about 76,000 miles on the odometer, and in excellent "restored" condition.
Along the way I *almost* bought 3 other Porsches, one of which I even flew out to buy but had to leave it when it threw a CEL shortly after starting to drive it.
Here is what I learned during this process, and hopefully it will help some future buyer(s) out there seeking to pick up a used Porsche.
(1) Spend a lot of time researching the different models before you make your first offer. I was a bit quick on the trigger and it would have gone better if I had waited to make offers until I really figured out what I wanted to buy. There are a lot of different models, and different series of models dating back into the mid to late 1990s. Drive as many cars as you can from researching sales listings, engaging the owners, and taking every opportunity to drive any cars available to you to test drive.
(2) Treat everything you read in a sales listing as puffery until you can verify it. Porsche used car sales listings, especially private party listings, tend to be very formulaic and to basically regurgitate what the seller thinks you want to read. One of major reasons for selling a used Porsche is that the cost of ownership is mounting, and the seller wants to get out before a multi-thousand dollar repair or service goes from optional/recommended to obligatory, as in the car won't operate any longer if you don't spend XXX dollars with a mechanic. But, you won't ever see that as the listed reason for selling a used Porsche :-) Instead, the seller will say they are having a baby, they are moving, they are buying a more expensive (Porsche), they are buying a house, etc. etc. etc.
Prior service histories are often exaggerated, sometimes intentionally, and sometimes because they trusted what the seller they bought the car from told them and asked for no documentation or proof. Since older Porsches are often 2nd car garage queens, getting very little mileage each year, it is common to read that a car had XXXX service done 5,000 miles ago, but when you look that service occurred 6 or 7 or even 8 years ago.
(3) Most Used Porsche Asking Prices are NOT Reasonable. It is common among private party sellers of cars (and houses) to have an inflated impression of what their car is worth. Sometimes, there is room for negotiation, and sometimes the seller expects to get nearly what he is asking. If the asking price is reasonable, than one can't expect to get much of a better deal, but when the asking price is unreasonably high, taking age and mileage and condition into consideration, one should either be able to turn it into a decent deal, or one should walk away, and quickly!
(4) The Value of a PPI is Often Overstated. Very few PPIs are good enough to pick up the sort of flaws that you would like to pick up, those that either would indicate that expensive repairs are looming, or that really go to the trouble to look for them. I have seen/read exactly one worthwhile PPI in my years of buying used/vintage BMWs, and now looking for used Porsches. All the rest of them were totally useless or merely pointed out things that any clown could have observed with the car up on a lift. I am not saying that you should not get a PPI, after all a PPI is one of the tools you can use to size up a used high end vehicle. Just don't expect it to be determinative, in most cases.
(5) A well-priced used Porsche will sell QUICKLY. There is a lot of demand out there, so if the car has been for sale a long time and is still available, either there is a problem with the vehicle, or the price is too high for the pool of buyers out there with cash in their hands. My advice to sellers is that if your car is not getting the attention from buyers that you would expect, cut your asking price! The market is trying to tell you something!
(6) Don't be afraid to hop a plane or go to other extraordinary efforts to get the car you are looking for. Some of these cars are genuinely uncommon and there aren't very many of them for sale at any point in time or during any one year. You will need to pounce on them as soon as they become available for sale.
(7) Take the trouble to size up the seller. What you want in a seller is someone who is a genuinely meticulous, picky, owner, not just someone who says he is. Flowery text in sales listings, things like "the car is a dream to drive," "amazing," "no expense spared on the car," stuff like that, is worthless. What you want to see is someone who walks the walk, not so much someone who talks the talk. You can figure this out about a seller if you dig deeply enough. Once you find someone who just can't tolerate having a car that has something wrong with it, who feels OBLIGED to fix it because they just can't live with a car that is not right, that is the guy you want to buy your car from. I have been criticized on this point by other forum members, people who say that you aren't buying a seller, you are buying a car. True enough, but find the right seller and you will find the right car; simple as that.
(8) If the car is sought after, and the asking price is reasonable, and you have come to trust the seller, there is no time like the present to consummate the deal. If you wait and have no skin in the game, the seller can and will sell the car to someone else who wants it more, by virtue of coming out to see the car immediately, buying an airplane ticket to go look at it, or offering a deposit to hold the vehicle. If you want the car, if you trust the seller, and if you are prepared and able to buy it, don't procrastinate, because your deal is likely to evaporate and be thrown over to someone else who is more prepared to do what is necessary to consummate the transaction. Sometimes, perhaps most of the time, a good deal on a used Porsche is lost because the buyer was unwilling to do what was necessary to seal the deal. Change your plans to make the deal, go make the deal, then drive the car back hundreds or a thousand or more miles, if need be to get the car that you really want. If you fly out to buy it and it turns out to be less than you were expecting, either get the price adjusted to reflect that, or excuse yourself, call an Uber, go back to the airport, and chalk it all up as a learning experience.
Good luck!
Along the way I *almost* bought 3 other Porsches, one of which I even flew out to buy but had to leave it when it threw a CEL shortly after starting to drive it.
Here is what I learned during this process, and hopefully it will help some future buyer(s) out there seeking to pick up a used Porsche.
(1) Spend a lot of time researching the different models before you make your first offer. I was a bit quick on the trigger and it would have gone better if I had waited to make offers until I really figured out what I wanted to buy. There are a lot of different models, and different series of models dating back into the mid to late 1990s. Drive as many cars as you can from researching sales listings, engaging the owners, and taking every opportunity to drive any cars available to you to test drive.
(2) Treat everything you read in a sales listing as puffery until you can verify it. Porsche used car sales listings, especially private party listings, tend to be very formulaic and to basically regurgitate what the seller thinks you want to read. One of major reasons for selling a used Porsche is that the cost of ownership is mounting, and the seller wants to get out before a multi-thousand dollar repair or service goes from optional/recommended to obligatory, as in the car won't operate any longer if you don't spend XXX dollars with a mechanic. But, you won't ever see that as the listed reason for selling a used Porsche :-) Instead, the seller will say they are having a baby, they are moving, they are buying a more expensive (Porsche), they are buying a house, etc. etc. etc.
Prior service histories are often exaggerated, sometimes intentionally, and sometimes because they trusted what the seller they bought the car from told them and asked for no documentation or proof. Since older Porsches are often 2nd car garage queens, getting very little mileage each year, it is common to read that a car had XXXX service done 5,000 miles ago, but when you look that service occurred 6 or 7 or even 8 years ago.
(3) Most Used Porsche Asking Prices are NOT Reasonable. It is common among private party sellers of cars (and houses) to have an inflated impression of what their car is worth. Sometimes, there is room for negotiation, and sometimes the seller expects to get nearly what he is asking. If the asking price is reasonable, than one can't expect to get much of a better deal, but when the asking price is unreasonably high, taking age and mileage and condition into consideration, one should either be able to turn it into a decent deal, or one should walk away, and quickly!
(4) The Value of a PPI is Often Overstated. Very few PPIs are good enough to pick up the sort of flaws that you would like to pick up, those that either would indicate that expensive repairs are looming, or that really go to the trouble to look for them. I have seen/read exactly one worthwhile PPI in my years of buying used/vintage BMWs, and now looking for used Porsches. All the rest of them were totally useless or merely pointed out things that any clown could have observed with the car up on a lift. I am not saying that you should not get a PPI, after all a PPI is one of the tools you can use to size up a used high end vehicle. Just don't expect it to be determinative, in most cases.
(5) A well-priced used Porsche will sell QUICKLY. There is a lot of demand out there, so if the car has been for sale a long time and is still available, either there is a problem with the vehicle, or the price is too high for the pool of buyers out there with cash in their hands. My advice to sellers is that if your car is not getting the attention from buyers that you would expect, cut your asking price! The market is trying to tell you something!
(6) Don't be afraid to hop a plane or go to other extraordinary efforts to get the car you are looking for. Some of these cars are genuinely uncommon and there aren't very many of them for sale at any point in time or during any one year. You will need to pounce on them as soon as they become available for sale.
(7) Take the trouble to size up the seller. What you want in a seller is someone who is a genuinely meticulous, picky, owner, not just someone who says he is. Flowery text in sales listings, things like "the car is a dream to drive," "amazing," "no expense spared on the car," stuff like that, is worthless. What you want to see is someone who walks the walk, not so much someone who talks the talk. You can figure this out about a seller if you dig deeply enough. Once you find someone who just can't tolerate having a car that has something wrong with it, who feels OBLIGED to fix it because they just can't live with a car that is not right, that is the guy you want to buy your car from. I have been criticized on this point by other forum members, people who say that you aren't buying a seller, you are buying a car. True enough, but find the right seller and you will find the right car; simple as that.
(8) If the car is sought after, and the asking price is reasonable, and you have come to trust the seller, there is no time like the present to consummate the deal. If you wait and have no skin in the game, the seller can and will sell the car to someone else who wants it more, by virtue of coming out to see the car immediately, buying an airplane ticket to go look at it, or offering a deposit to hold the vehicle. If you want the car, if you trust the seller, and if you are prepared and able to buy it, don't procrastinate, because your deal is likely to evaporate and be thrown over to someone else who is more prepared to do what is necessary to consummate the transaction. Sometimes, perhaps most of the time, a good deal on a used Porsche is lost because the buyer was unwilling to do what was necessary to seal the deal. Change your plans to make the deal, go make the deal, then drive the car back hundreds or a thousand or more miles, if need be to get the car that you really want. If you fly out to buy it and it turns out to be less than you were expecting, either get the price adjusted to reflect that, or excuse yourself, call an Uber, go back to the airport, and chalk it all up as a learning experience.
Good luck!
The following users liked this post:
Elihu Smails (09-15-2022)
05-24-2017, 06:51 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Great tips! I got kind of lucky on mine, as another buyer had a PPI done, but hesitated (as you've mentioned in your article) and I was able to get in and grab the car. Owner was nice enough to give me the contact info for the shop that did the PPI and, although I offered to bring the car back in to him, the mechanic was glad to give me all the information he had gleaned from it's first visit to him, and felt no need to bring the car back (as it was only a week earlier he'd seen it)
05-24-2017, 11:43 AM
#3
Pro
Thread Starter
Great tips! I got kind of lucky on mine, as another buyer had a PPI done, but hesitated (as you've mentioned in your article) and I was able to get in and grab the car. Owner was nice enough to give me the contact info for the shop that did the PPI and, although I offered to bring the car back in to him, the mechanic was glad to give me all the information he had gleaned from it's first visit to him, and felt no need to bring the car back (as it was only a week earlier he'd seen it)
I called the shop and the guy refused to tell me what the PPI showed unless I paid him $225 (might have been $250), the cost of the PPI, that he had already charged the other potential buyer :-) I wasn't very impressed by this behavior, but I took a different tact. I asked the guy, "let's forget about what the PPI showed specifically. Let's say I decide to buy the car and to bring the car to you, to have the things fixed that you found when you looked at it; how much would that cost me?" His response was, "three to four thousand dollars."
The seller had told me that the car had been into the Porsche dealer a year earlier, so I called them also and they would not release information about the car, however the service adviser said, "sometimes we recommend service and the customers choose not to do it." I took that as a huge hint.
When I went over to actually see the car and to test drive it, the seller made some comment about how he could tell when a car needs a new clutch or new brakes (or whatever), so he doesn't listen to what shops tell him :-) He then offered to show me the bill from the service when he took the car to the dealer a year earlier. Not surprisingly, they said that the tires were bald, and that the car needed all sorts of repairs, which, with the tires, totaled more than $7K. This was one neglected car with an overly optimistic price for its condition, coupled with lots of deferred maintenance. I passed on it.
Always try to use all of the information that is available to you when buying a used car, and do not hesitate to dig a little bit, to avoid an expensive nightmare in your own garage.
05-24-2017, 05:01 PM
#4
OP: This is great advice. Thanks!
05-30-2017, 03:06 PM
#6
Pro
Thread Starter
As to high mileage 911's, I'm certainly no expert. I have heard from one other forum member that he thinks the best deals on used Porsches are on ones with high mileage that have had their mechanical issues addressed by former owners. It is commonly stated in these forums that a higher mileage car, well cared for, is preferable to a lower mileage barely driven vehicle, at least if one is talking about a car to be driven, as opposed to one being "collected."
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09-03-2020, 12:40 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Here's another option, if this isn't the car you're actually looking at already.
https://mart.pca.org/ads/45722
https://vinanalytics.com/car/WP0AB2A99ES121855/
https://mart.pca.org/ads/45722
https://vinanalytics.com/car/WP0AB2A99ES121855/
09-03-2020, 11:01 PM
#9
Bring him 70k in cold hard cash and see what happens. Keep and extra 5 in your glove box. Truth is a lot of private sellers are difficult. I bought my first that way and almost non of the cars where owned by guys I'd want to get a beer with.
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leftlane (10-25-2020)
