Tier1Terrier

Hi and thank you for this forum. For most of my 40+ years on this planet, my dream car has always been a 911. Now I'm finally at the point in my life when I can honestly consider owning a nicely cared for pre-owned one. Since 1998, I fell in love with the last aircooled Turbo and have never waivered, but I really know very little about these or any other 911.

From what I'm seeing, the air cooled ones are the ones really going up in price, but I'm not sure if that should have any bearing on my choice. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why would I consider an air cooled vs a liquid cooled when the newer ones seem to be a better value these days? Is it primarily because of collector's appeal that the older ones are worth more? Or is it because they were simply made better back then? I'm sure it's probably a combination of the two.

Nonetheless, I'm here to learn all about the 911s and hope to eventually come to a decision on what it is I really want.

Thanks in advance!

jlenze

Check out the IMS issues with the early water cooled 996/997 the 993's are bullet proof!!!

KoB

I think there's a lot of fear-mongering -- if not nonsense -- going on out there regarding the intermediate shaft (IMS) bearing. It's a known weakness of the M96/M97 engines. There are good replacement parts available, such as the kit from LN Engineering ... find a good car, get the replacement done by a qualified shop, and you should be good to go.

More generally, I think you have some reading to do regarding the characteristics of the different generations. IMO, the 996 marked Porsche's evolution of the 911 from sports car to touring car. For me, the 996 is just about right ... the extra size (it's 8 inches longer than the 993) fits me better and the liquid cooling is probably better suited to year round use in the Northeast. I don't drive my car in harsh winter conditions, but I appreciate having good heat when it's 20 degrees out.

The 996 is considered to be the first mass-produced 911, and maybe a little more focused on being a daily driver than the previous 911s. IMO, the 996 is great value, but it really comes down to what characteristics you value most. 30 years ago I had the opportunity to drive a well-built 2.7 liter RS, and I remember it to this day ... the closest I'll ever get to driving a race car on the street. But I can't imagine using it as a daily driver, or even taking it for a relaxed cruise on a country road.

Hopefully, you see my point ... learn more about the nature of the 964, the 993, the 996, and so on. I think you'll find that they all have their strengths, weaknesses, and idiosyncrasies. At the same time, try to figure out where your balance point is on the scale of "race car for the street" and "high performance touring car." Somewhere in there, I think you'll start to get a sense of which 911 is right for you.

tcsracing1

No question the air-cooled porsches offer the classic 911 experience and are going up in value as result.
They are small, super fun to drive and straight forward to maintain for the most part.

The 1990-94 964 models have coil spring suspension, ABS brakes and classic headlight configuration. They are getting harder to find, but if you can find a nice example within your budget you cant go wrong.

The 1995-1998 993 models have refined engines and suspensions and are the last of the air cooled porsches. Prices are getting steep. But alas, if can find one within your budget you cannot lose.

That being said, they are now older cars and may require a little TLC when you buy one. But once you get it serviced it should last you miles and miles of enjoyment. These things can run forever.

In terms of modern water cooled porsches the GT3 series offers perhaps the most pure 911 experience.
2004-2005 996 GT3 offers great value.
2007-2008 997 GT3 is a more refined version with better styling and ride.
2010-2011 997.2 GT3 offers slightly more refinement and power.
All 997RS versions offer more, more, more.
(Note that 2014+ GT3 no longer offer a manual transmission.... Thus all 997 GT3 are now considered somewhat "collector" cars.)

If the GT3 series is not your thing, the 2009-2012 997.2 Carreras with DFI (direct fuel injection) offer bullet proof motors for years of trouble free ownership. These cars are becoming more and more affordable in the used market. (the 2005-2008 carreras have been known to suffer IMS issues... so if you can afford the newer DFI models the better off you might be..)

Would also like to add that the 997.1 turbo 2007-2009 and 997.2 turbo 2010-2012 both with the manual transmission are great values, especially the 2007-2009 mezger engined cars for under $100k. With the 2014+ turbo no longer offered in a manual transmission you will own an instant classic with one of these. Again, just a great all round car that is fast as hell and can be used daily.

Set your budget.
Decide what you want in a 911 and what you intend to use it for and then consider pros and cons to further narrow down your selection.
Try not to buy with your brain too much as it really should be a purchase of the heart.
Happy hunting

Tier1Terrier

Thank you for the great responses - especially TCS! That was exactly the initial type of rundown I needed. I've been spending a lot of spare time reading up on this board as well as looking at classifieds to see what's in my range. As pointed out, there are later models that can be had for less than some older models - which makes the choosing process more challenging.

On one hand, I've wanted a 911 nearly my entire life an originally fell in love with them in the 80's. Having an early model from the 80s or 90's would certainly be very cool and nostalgic. This would primarily be a weekend driver and not see too many yearly miles (maybe a few thousand). On the other hand, I'm not the most mechanically inclined but I DO enjoy working on my own things whenever I can. Brakes, oil changes, things like that are no problem for me. But I don't want a car that needs to much TLC and time with a mechanic to keep running well. Seeing 997 models with very low mileage (as in the 20ks) for the same price as higher mileage (75-150k) but well kept 993s makes it hard for me to look away from the 997s. I cant deny that I'd be more attracted to a car that's newer and PERHAPS have a lot more life left in it. Not to mention the fact that I am VERY aggressive when it comes to maintenance, and the idea that having a car that I will be able to maintain from closer to it's 'birth' make me feel confident that I'll be able to have the car for a longer time and with less headaches. Resale/Investment value means something to me, but not as much as being able to enjoy my dream car for many years.

So while I'm still figuring things out, I THINK I'm currently leaning towards a 997 'C2S or C4S' model preferably in the $40-50k range, but I've got PLENTY of time to figure things out. I intend on doing a lot more research and try to learn about these cars inside and out.

So besides nostalgic or 'purist' reasons, any reason why I should be weary of a 997? Besides the IMS issues, what else should I be looking out for? What on these models tends to be burdensome for owners? What are the biggest/fastest things to wear out and need maintenance? (not including tires and oil and things like that). How solid are the engines on these things compared to their 993 predecessors? What about some of the highlights that make these stand out?

Again, Thank you ALL for your responses.

Lance-AR

I have a 997.1 with the original IMS bearing. 88k miles now. Assume any 997 with low miles would need the rear main seal replaced along with possibly the IMS bearing. Assume the water pump will need to be replaced every 4 years as well and keep in mind, even the replacement IMS bearing will still need replacement eventually. I do oil analysis every 3k miles to keep an eye out for IMSB issues.

Good luck!

John in Bismarck

I was where you are two years ago. We liked our 05 Boxster, but always wanted a 911. We sold the Boxster to the first person who drove it, and started to look for a 911. I looked at 993, 996, and 997 models, from private owners and Porsche dealers. I didn't care for the styling of the 996, though a 2004 40th anniversary coupe was tempting. I almost bought a 993, but went with an 06 Carrera coupe. The 993 had a more solid feel (closing the doors), and was a lot of fun to drive. However, the 997 was just a more modern car, with a great HVAC system, and we thought it would be better for long cross-country trips, which we have done several times now. Oil changes on a 997 are very easy; I read about doing them on the 993 (two oil filters) and it didn't look like something I wanted to fuss with. Each model has its strong and weak points, but they are all great cars to drive. These forums are a terrific source of information. Good luck with your search.

Tier1Terrier

What about the issues of the 997.1 vs 997.2? How much of a role should that play into choosing a 997? IMS & DFI in particular.

Based on everything I'm learning and current market values, I'm leaning towards an early model (2009ish) 997.2.

John in Bismarck

They always say to buy the newest car you can afford, so an 09 would be better than an 06 from that perspective. The 997.2 was way out of our price range two years ago when we bought ours. I'm not worried about the IMS, because from what I've read, problems with the 06-08 997.1 models are very rare. That being said our 05 Boxster, and the 04 Carrera we almost bought, both had new engines put in under warranty by previous owners, presumably for IMS failures.

There are lots of discussions about this on the 997 forum. Lots of opinions, too.