michicago

I'm 72 hours away from attaining a dream I've worked very hard, very long to realize. But thanks to what appears to me as some truly shady business practices, I'm sick to my stomach and get angry every time I think about the transaction. So I figured I'd post my experience here to see what others would feel like in my position, and what they might do. At the very least, writing this out might be a little therapeutic!

On Feb 8th I opened up the cars.com app on my phone and found a GT3 RS listed that had most of the options I wanted, so I called them up and started negotiating a deal. WHILE I was on the phone with them, unbeknownst to me they posted a listing in the Rennlist classifieds where the list price was $5,000 lower than their price on their website or cars.com.

I found the ad at ~2am when I logged onto Rennlist to add to my "GT3 RS First Time Buyer Questions" thread... and it was like I'd been hit in the gut with a wrecking ball.

Since I had already put a non-refundable deposit on the car, I sent a link to the for sale ad to the salesman I'm working with, and they responded by taking the time to log into Rennlist and increase their asking price before bothering to call me. Later that day, they deleted the thread entirely.

When I asked the dealer to honor their Rennlist price, I was told "that price was a mistake and we would have rejected any offers based on that listing. The person that posted that isn't even a manager and we don't know why he posted at that price." Requests for them to drop our agreed price by a measly $1,500 received the same response... basically "you put a non-refundable deposit down on an agreed price and there's nothing we can do"... which really means nothing they will do.

So, what would you do? What's the thought here on a dealer listing a car for prices they would jack up when you called them?

Feld

You are probably not going to like my answer but you made a deal and agreed to a non-refundable deposit. Sounds like you were caught up in the moment and I get that but you made the deal. Car dealers will obviously try to get as much $ as they can and that should not offend you but make you more diligent when negotiating with them. I would never agree to a non refundable deposit.

michicago

No, I don't fault them for selling to the highest bidder at all. And you don't know how many times I kicked myself for not waiting just a few more minutes before calling them.

The part I am struggling with is the lower-priced Rennlist ad was posted while I was on the phone negotiating of their website list price, so it didn't exist for me to find it beforehand. Regardless of the product someone is selling, when it's advertised at two different prices there's on opportunity to do the more honorable thing and make it right, or at least better.

There's a backstory to the deposit, too. I couldn't get to the dealership right away, so it was a show of good faith I wasn't another time waster on the phone; they made it crystal clear they have to put up with a lot of that. Given the size of the transaction and the importance to me, a little reciprocation would have gone a long way.

Feld

I would have to give them the benefit of the doubt that it was not the same person placing the add on Rennlist as the one talking to you. If it was then that would be unethical, regardless I agree they should show good faith and give you some discount and have a happy customer.

turbofreeFLAT6

If you started negotiating a deal does that mean you got something off the $154,991? I've not bought a car in the US but if it's like other countries I would expect to get 5-10% off with hard negotiation.

If I was the dealer I would say you must have thought it was a fair price or you wouldn't have paid the deposit; the car's still the same, why do you think it's not fair now? It always eats at you if you find afterwards that a seller would have accepted less but it's almost a given that used car dealers will leave you with an unsavoury taste and if you still think it's the right car then in the long run $5,000 will seem insignificant; the main thing is you got it.

michicago

It was definitely a different salesman that listed it at the lower price. I'll give credit to the guy I was/am working with, he is trying to make things right but saying the dealer is tying his hands. Your last sentence sums up my thoughts completely. It's why I even threw the $1500 discount out there. I'd still be paying MORE than their Rennlist ad, but I wouldn't feel like they were completely unethical people I regret doing business with.

The price we agreed on was higher than the 2nd ad they listed, so I was only able to get a nominal amount off. Less than 2%.

Ha, I've played devil's advocate with myself using that same logic a hundred times over the past few days. In my opinion, it's an absolutely valid position to take if a person/company values a small amount of money over undoing something you never should have done to a customer. With what I asked them to do on the sale price, they'd still get 99% of the price we agreed on, MORE than their Rennlist ad... I just wouldn't feel completely screwed over and I could get back to enjoying a dream come true.

In other words - if this car was never advertised for less than I'm paying for it, I would have been completely happy with the transaction. But it was... and I saw it, and there's no undoing that. And the way they've handled it since has been frustrating and disappointing.

turbofreeFLAT6

It is what it is. Nobody gets the best possible outcome with every transaction. If you don't have any major losses you're lucky. Don't let it spoil the euphoria of having the car.

ejdoherty911

You are in a position in life to purchase a $155,000 toy .... okay .... let that sink in.... I'd say you're doing just fine. You "missed out" on 3%, I bet somewhere along the way in life you got the better side of a 3% deal.

michicago

True. The fact I don't have the car yet is making it easier to focus on the business transaction, not the end game. If I could walk out to my garage and take it for a ride around the lake, it'll be easier to focus on the joys of owning an RS.

Finlander

I have never agreed to one either. Nor have I had a dealer tell me its non-refundable. Typically, at least for me, I give a deposit and tell them I will purchase the car pending a positive PPI. If PPi is no good, I get my deposit back.


To OP, if the car is exactly what you've been looking for.....right color, specs, condition, etc. then just buy it and don't sweat the couple G's.

daylorb

Definitely annoying, but a few percentage points is probably not the end of the world. Worst case is they are flat-out lying to you, which would be really surprising. If you don't plan to use them for service, and the car is the right one, a few percentage points isn't something to lose sleep over. It would bug me for sure - I don't always get the best deal but I value honesty on the price... but it wouldn't bug me enough to not get the hard-to-find car I wanted and will have serviced elsewhere. The first time you hit 6K RPMs in that car headed upwards all will be forgotten!

JG 996T

Nightmares are happening in Florida.



You're buying an RS....

cfiiman

I'm not trying to sound like an jerk at all, just giving my feelings. Dealers will always try to get as much as they can because they are a business not UNICEF. I'm not sure why it felt like a wrecking ball in your stomach. I mean I understand that you could have got it for less, but that is honestly always the case. If you would have tried to get it for that price who knows maybe someone would have been happy to buy it for the price you did and you wouldn't have got it at all if that makes sense. I've had several deals fall through on things b/c I was trying to get the best price I could, in hindsight I should've paid the extra as you did and been happy (this was mostly real estate purchases not cars). All I'm saying is that this is the game dealers play, and it seems silly to worry about the fact they would have been willing to take less. They will ALWAYS take less to a point, so every time someone purchases from a dealer and the deal goes through, I'm sure there was a little more they "could of" got off. The thing is you have to be happy with what you were willing to pay, and you were when you put the deposit down, and then were not when you learned they would take less, I'm saying don't worry about it. You felt like it was a good deal when you signed the contract for your own reasons, just b/c it was advertised less should not change that, b/c I'm sure there are people that would have paid more for it as well, that is the game. Before I purchased my 996TT I looked at one at a Mercedes dealer. He was asking AT LEAST 10K more than it was worth. I tried negotiating and he got irritated and told me he knew what it was worth. Ok, I thanked him and bought another one which was a nicer car, less mileage, the exact color I wanted and for far less money. Someone bought the car at the dealer shortly after. Did he overpay, yep, but for him it was worth it b/c he wanted that exact car.

michicago

I'm normally the same way, too. This one has a completed PPI and comes was CPO from Porsche... so I was less hesitant than I normally would have been. The deposit does of course come with a clause that it becomes refundable if anything about the car has been misrepresented, and I will be there to see it before the remaining money exchanges hands.

I like this line of thinking. I think when I finally get to see the car in the flesh... and hear it purr... my perspective will change quickly.

Exactly how I feel about it! I hate being lied to and it taints the experience of attaining a long-time dream car, and I'm ready for the joy of owning it to make the bad feelings that exist today a distant memory. It's not the money... it's the principle of it.

The perspective game can be played with anything. I'm in my 30's, have a young daughter, and I was told I have skin cancer two weeks ago. If that's not a nightmare, I don't know what is.

I'm also 100% sure someone else has been through worse... but that doesn't dilute my experience.
Nah, that doesn't come across jerky at all. I guess the best I could sum it up (and I'm sticking with the wrecking ball comment! haha) is this:

1. I knew I was leaving money on the table, and I WAS comfortable with the price we agreed on the car.
2. The timing sucked as much as anything on this. I mean, I'm on the phone negotiating a deal and deposit on the car, and DURING that conversation it gets posted on Rennlist at $5k cheaper.
3. I think it's EXTREMELY shady business practice to advertise the same thing at different prices. The car was only listed on their site for a couple hours before their Rennlist post, so it's not as if they dropped the price to drive up waning interest.
4. When I pointed it out to them, their response was "we wouldn't have honored that price". That's BS, a sponsoring dealer is going to post an ad for an RS and then tell a Rennlister "haha, just kidding! Here's the real price"... if you're going to do something that feels shady, don't be a coward about it on the backside.

Leaving money on the table buying a car like this was always inevitable. The way they've handled it bothers me more than the money... I just don't like dealing with shady people or being lied to, regardless of the amount of money exchanging hands.

cfiiman

Yeah I understand that feeling too. My point of view is I've always thought dealers, in general b/c I know there are some good ones, are shady about sales practices. I have come to expect it and that is why I rarely buy from one. I totally agree if they wanted to be decent about it from a customer service/retention angle they should've done something to make you feel better about it, especially with the high dollars we are talking on this purchase. Definitely penny wise and pound foolish IMO. With that said, it is nice that this is a first world problem This is just one of those, "ah crap, paid a bit too much, oh well..." kind of moments IMO. Moral of the story, smile you got a bad *** car most people can only dream about