Any reason for Porsches numbering system
12-13-2017, 07:31 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Any reason for Porsches numbering system
The latest 911 evolution - 964, 993, 996, 997
Then 991 and upcoming 992. Any reason it is not sequential? Do the model numbers have some additional meaning?
Then 991 and upcoming 992. Any reason it is not sequential? Do the model numbers have some additional meaning?
12-22-2017, 12:18 AM
#2
5th Gear
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Probably because they're too focused on improving performance + efficiency and dgaf about numbers lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_type_numbers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_type_numbers
01-04-2018, 01:42 AM
#3
Yes, they do have additional meaning. It is a long story. They are chronological, somewhat, but only in the loosest sense. I think Karl Rabe was the first person assigned to creating and chronicling the Porsche numbers. He was known as "the keeper of the numbers."
Originally, professor Porsche wanted to make his company seem like they were experienced. Edit: His first project as an designer was number 1. I do not know what this was. The first car to bear the family name is the 356, supposedly his 356th project. However I have read that it really isn't his 356th project, he (and the newly founded company) skipped a lot of numbers to make it appear he had worked on more than advertised.
They then jumped ahead to the 900 series, for similar reasons (this is our 900th project!). I'm not sure they fooled anyone. There are of course hundreds of projects between 356 and 901, but I don't think there are 544 of them. The 550 and 718 are perhaps the most notable of these, others include tractors, projects for other manufacturers, etc.
901 was the code given to what would later become the 911 in 1963. Peugeot opposed Porsche's name, claiming they had rights to all three digit monikers with a zero in the middle. Porsche was able to make 904, 906, 907, 908, and 909 models, but these are all race cars. The 901 and 902 would be changed to 911 and 912, respectively. As far as the parts catalog is concerned, there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of parts bearing the 901 or 902 prefix.
At this point, Porsche attempted to instill some sense into the numbers. Going forward, the middle digit would roll over with each so-called 'generation' of car design. I think at some point the intent for the last digit was that on a street car it would denote the number of cylinders ( 914, 916, 924, 928, 944, 956, and maybe 986 and 996). This attribute of the last digit didn't last long. Instead it would mean different things (Group 6 racecar in the case of the 936) or was simply a pseudo-chronological placeholder. The middle digit retains much of its chronological significance up until the new millenium, when the 980 (Carrera GT) and 987 (second-gen Boxster) poached from a lower middle digit. One could argue that the 987 is a chronological development of the 986. But starting with the 991 and 981, all vestiges of chronological significance are tossed to the wind.
Examples of other reasons for the last digit:
I think that the 964 number was given because the car was originally designed as AWD, hence the "4," and the "6" coming from this so-called "design generation." The 2WD version came later, but is still referred to as a 964. The 962 is an entirely different car!
The 968 was originally supposed to be called a 944 S3. It was renamed at the last minute. The "6" is the same reasoning as above, but the "8" is kind of pulled out of a hat. 964 was already taken, perhaps the 8 was chosen because it was redesigned to resemble the 928. Additionally, the 928 and 968 are the last road cars to be badged with their code number.
Porsche skipped what would be the "seventh" generation. (The Panamera is actually a 970, it is likely a fill-in).
The original "98x" cars (984, 986, 989) are all from the late eighties and early nineties, but with platforms not based on anything prior. The 984 is a concept preceding the Boxster, started in the 1980s. The original Boxster is 986, whose development stemmed from the 984. The 989 is a four-door concept that precedes the Panamera. The reason for the 8, rather than the 6 of many cars developed around the same time, may be because the 98x cars were, in the 1980s, all brand-new chassis designs. On the other hand, 1980s 96x cars are all based on a previous chassis; 961, 962, 964, 965, 966, 968, 969. The skipping of 97x is a stumper, although the 98x may have been chosen to reflect the decade.
Note that both the 986 and 996, either by coincidence or intention, use a 6 to denote the cylinder count (as would have been done in the 60s and early 70s). It is however quite likely intention that they both share the same last number; it is continued with the 987/997, 981/991. This refers to the similarity between the two; underneath each respective pair is the same from the cabin forward.
According to some sources, the 993 and 996 are numbered such for their scheduled calendar year debut (1993 and 1996).
One could make the argument that up until the 980 and 987 the numbers are chronological (based on when each project was started, not public debut). However this argument must understand that there are exceptions, usually in the form of special models or an upgraded version of an existing model. For example, the 916 project was started after the 917 was created; The 916 is a six-cylinder version of the already existing 914. Not to be confused with the 914-6, which was an already existing six-cylinder 914!
With the exception of the 997, every model since the 987 is a fill-in because Porsche has run out of numbers. All subsequent numbers are mostly senseless, and only in some cases refer to an older model. The 919 is supposed to recall the 917. It recalls the 917 only in the sense of marketing smoke. Ask 917 drivers such as Redman, Elford and others if the 919 has any remote similarities to the 917; they'll look at you like you're crazy.
It's similar to when the 991 GT2RS debuted. One journalist compared it to a 935, and asked Walter Rohrl for a comment. Rohrl politely remarked it was a gross misunderstanding to compare the two.
The marketing department of course disagrees, and have named the GT2RS-based club-racer special the "new 935." Ironically, the "Moby-Dick" 935 that its livery mimics is a careful interpretation of the Group 5 rule book, the GT2RS version is built to no rule book.
IMO, it is quite the contrary. The company (or at least the marketing department) seems to be infatuated with their own pedigree, hence their attachment to 9xx. It is quite ironic, being as how 901 was probably chosen out of a hat (compared to 801, 899, or whatever). Maybe the reason for 9xx is that it is the highest hundred before four digits.
Proving this point, the new "718" isn't actually a 718 at all. The 718 is a 1950's flat-4 open-cockpit race car, the success of which Porsche uses to market the new "718 Boxster/Cayman." The new "718" is actually a 982. They needed a real number for the car, because naming all the parts as "718-xxx-xxx" would be too confusing with those for a real 718.
There are actually very few numbers left that are available; maybe a little over a dozen. Ever since the 991, its been a guessing game as to what numbers they assign. 992 of course makes sense based on 991, but after that, who knows?
999 cant be used, as it is a prefix for thousands of miscellaneous parts - washers, clips, and the like.
In the 1960, '70s, and maybe briefly in the '80s, Porsche also assigned numbers to transmissions and engines. Some are unique, some were not. For example, 915 is a code for a 5-speed transmission, 923 is the code for the 4-cylinder engine in the 912E.
For further reading I suggest Karl Ludvigsen's book Porsche: Excellence was Expected.
That probably gave you more questions than answers, but maybe it is useful.
Originally, professor Porsche wanted to make his company seem like they were experienced. Edit: His first project as an designer was number 1. I do not know what this was. The first car to bear the family name is the 356, supposedly his 356th project. However I have read that it really isn't his 356th project, he (and the newly founded company) skipped a lot of numbers to make it appear he had worked on more than advertised.
They then jumped ahead to the 900 series, for similar reasons (this is our 900th project!). I'm not sure they fooled anyone. There are of course hundreds of projects between 356 and 901, but I don't think there are 544 of them. The 550 and 718 are perhaps the most notable of these, others include tractors, projects for other manufacturers, etc.
901 was the code given to what would later become the 911 in 1963. Peugeot opposed Porsche's name, claiming they had rights to all three digit monikers with a zero in the middle. Porsche was able to make 904, 906, 907, 908, and 909 models, but these are all race cars. The 901 and 902 would be changed to 911 and 912, respectively. As far as the parts catalog is concerned, there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of parts bearing the 901 or 902 prefix.
At this point, Porsche attempted to instill some sense into the numbers. Going forward, the middle digit would roll over with each so-called 'generation' of car design. I think at some point the intent for the last digit was that on a street car it would denote the number of cylinders ( 914, 916, 924, 928, 944, 956, and maybe 986 and 996). This attribute of the last digit didn't last long. Instead it would mean different things (Group 6 racecar in the case of the 936) or was simply a pseudo-chronological placeholder. The middle digit retains much of its chronological significance up until the new millenium, when the 980 (Carrera GT) and 987 (second-gen Boxster) poached from a lower middle digit. One could argue that the 987 is a chronological development of the 986. But starting with the 991 and 981, all vestiges of chronological significance are tossed to the wind.
Examples of other reasons for the last digit:
I think that the 964 number was given because the car was originally designed as AWD, hence the "4," and the "6" coming from this so-called "design generation." The 2WD version came later, but is still referred to as a 964. The 962 is an entirely different car!
The 968 was originally supposed to be called a 944 S3. It was renamed at the last minute. The "6" is the same reasoning as above, but the "8" is kind of pulled out of a hat. 964 was already taken, perhaps the 8 was chosen because it was redesigned to resemble the 928. Additionally, the 928 and 968 are the last road cars to be badged with their code number.
Porsche skipped what would be the "seventh" generation. (The Panamera is actually a 970, it is likely a fill-in).
The original "98x" cars (984, 986, 989) are all from the late eighties and early nineties, but with platforms not based on anything prior. The 984 is a concept preceding the Boxster, started in the 1980s. The original Boxster is 986, whose development stemmed from the 984. The 989 is a four-door concept that precedes the Panamera. The reason for the 8, rather than the 6 of many cars developed around the same time, may be because the 98x cars were, in the 1980s, all brand-new chassis designs. On the other hand, 1980s 96x cars are all based on a previous chassis; 961, 962, 964, 965, 966, 968, 969. The skipping of 97x is a stumper, although the 98x may have been chosen to reflect the decade.
Note that both the 986 and 996, either by coincidence or intention, use a 6 to denote the cylinder count (as would have been done in the 60s and early 70s). It is however quite likely intention that they both share the same last number; it is continued with the 987/997, 981/991. This refers to the similarity between the two; underneath each respective pair is the same from the cabin forward.
According to some sources, the 993 and 996 are numbered such for their scheduled calendar year debut (1993 and 1996).
One could make the argument that up until the 980 and 987 the numbers are chronological (based on when each project was started, not public debut). However this argument must understand that there are exceptions, usually in the form of special models or an upgraded version of an existing model. For example, the 916 project was started after the 917 was created; The 916 is a six-cylinder version of the already existing 914. Not to be confused with the 914-6, which was an already existing six-cylinder 914!
With the exception of the 997, every model since the 987 is a fill-in because Porsche has run out of numbers. All subsequent numbers are mostly senseless, and only in some cases refer to an older model. The 919 is supposed to recall the 917. It recalls the 917 only in the sense of marketing smoke. Ask 917 drivers such as Redman, Elford and others if the 919 has any remote similarities to the 917; they'll look at you like you're crazy.
It's similar to when the 991 GT2RS debuted. One journalist compared it to a 935, and asked Walter Rohrl for a comment. Rohrl politely remarked it was a gross misunderstanding to compare the two.
The marketing department of course disagrees, and have named the GT2RS-based club-racer special the "new 935." Ironically, the "Moby-Dick" 935 that its livery mimics is a careful interpretation of the Group 5 rule book, the GT2RS version is built to no rule book.
Proving this point, the new "718" isn't actually a 718 at all. The 718 is a 1950's flat-4 open-cockpit race car, the success of which Porsche uses to market the new "718 Boxster/Cayman." The new "718" is actually a 982. They needed a real number for the car, because naming all the parts as "718-xxx-xxx" would be too confusing with those for a real 718.
There are actually very few numbers left that are available; maybe a little over a dozen. Ever since the 991, its been a guessing game as to what numbers they assign. 992 of course makes sense based on 991, but after that, who knows?
999 cant be used, as it is a prefix for thousands of miscellaneous parts - washers, clips, and the like.
In the 1960, '70s, and maybe briefly in the '80s, Porsche also assigned numbers to transmissions and engines. Some are unique, some were not. For example, 915 is a code for a 5-speed transmission, 923 is the code for the 4-cylinder engine in the 912E.
For further reading I suggest Karl Ludvigsen's book Porsche: Excellence was Expected.
That probably gave you more questions than answers, but maybe it is useful.
Last edited by FrenchToast; 04-03-2019 at 03:51 PM. Reason: correction
01-09-2018, 12:41 AM
#5
For what its worth, this is what the Porsche website says:
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/prod...ber-12087.html
I found some mistakes in my original explanation and corrected them.
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/prod...ber-12087.html
I found some mistakes in my original explanation and corrected them.
Last edited by FrenchToast; 01-09-2018 at 12:58 AM.