NYoutftr

Going to first DE this year and would like to have a audio/video set up with stat overlay.
I have a 996 C2 Coupe with Roll Bar.
I would like to have one or two cameras, maybe one to start with, but the ability to add a second.
Something easy to use, it will stay mounted in car, no need to have to be taken in and out.
Modest price point.
Thanks for any input.

Difool

First DE - Focus on the driving and learning mostly. An easy setup is to get Harry's Lap Timer on your iPhone or Android. Then get a RAM mount to either suction it to the windshield, or clamp it to your roll bar.

if you want more accuracy, then look at their site for compatible GPS devices. $20 for the app, $40-ish for the mount, and if you want $150 for the GPS. Gives you overlay and a good tool for remembering what you did after the fact. Then if you want to invest in something more robust later you haven't really wasted anything.

But don't be surprised if your instructor asks you not to use it on your first sessions - esp if you mount it in front of their face.

linzman

^^^This. I admire your desire to learn from what you've done. Video and data are a great way to do so. At your first event, I would tell you to put the video away. There is so much overwhelming stuff going on, that you don't need the distraction. The only value it has is for some giggles in a few years when you're a much better driver. Once you've done a few events, and you're much more comfortable in the car, start using it. In the meantime, get a friend to take some pictures instead.

tedean

Your first DE! You will have so much FUN! I would just start with a good camera(s) and just turn them on and forget them. What the guys said above, just focus on the lines and what the instructors say. Between sessions, you can replay what the you learned and see first hand what you will need to work on.

ProCoach

HLT with your phone and a VBOX Sport would be the least expensive, most accurate and full featured budget choice, but most people move quickly to something more reliable, automated and less trouble. The cost of the phone, VBOX Sport, HLT Pro and the mount are more than half the cost of a good permanent and powerful setup.

AiM Solo DL and SmartyCam HD OR Video VBOX Lite or Race-Keeper HE would be all around the same price and would produce video with some metrics already on it, plus be able to compare laps.

There's often used equipment available, too. I have a few VVB Lite 2-camera systems used for less than $1200.

Cameras without information on them are worthless other than to review line, IMO.

NYoutftr

Thanks, the advise on just trying to comprehend the car and listening to the instructions is paramount.
But a couple of you saw the main reason for wanting right away, some material for entertainment five years from now.
I realize the importance of being able to review prior driving is a great tool for progressing, which is why I would like a system.
Was just thinking about trying to capture the first day at school.
Thank you for the information.

RickBetterley

I don't normally encourage video in the early days of DE but I get that you would like to record it for later amusement. Nothing wrong with that!
A GoPro-type camera on a good suction mount will do the trick. Check the host region to make sure it complies.
As an instructor I too would ask you to leave it turned off at least at first.

FergusH

I started doing DE events about a year ago, so I'm only slightly less of a novice than you!

For your first event, I would do something as simple as possible (short of doing nothing): just video via a GoPro and a RAM mount. To make things even easier, get the biggest memory card you can afford and connect the GoPro to the USB adapter in your car. By doing this, you won't have to worry about running out storage or power and you can start the camera early and not have to think about it.

Having used Harry's Laptimer extensively, I would recommend *not* using it for your first event. It's a great app but it has what I think is a confusing interface, so it's easy to make mistakes and end up with nothing. It's also likely to be a distraction while you're doing your first event. If you really want to use it, make sure you get familiar with it well before the event. You can make a "track" just around your neighborhood to test it out.

If you want to get data for your first session as well as video, the Vbox Sport would be a good option and better I think than HLT. The Vbox Sport has no screen and only two buttons: it's just a data logger - no video - and is even simpler than the GoPro. You just put a memory card in it, turn it on, make sure it's got a reasonably clear line of sight to the sky and go drive. It'll start logging your position 20 times each second as soon as you're moving and the battery lasts all day. The only downside is that it'll turn itself off after 15 minutes of no motion, so you can't turn it on too soon before your session.

When you're done, you can look at the data in the free Circuit Tools app. You can also combine the video and data in a tool like Race Render.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money, you can rent a GoPro kit from a place like lensrentals.com. Vbox Sport's regularly come up on eBay and even if you bought a new one, you'd probably be able to sell it pretty quickly.

After a year of DE events, I'm ready to get something fancier (probably a Vbox HD2, which includes cameras and a data logger and is much more expensive than the Sport) but I'm glad I started with the simple options - GoPro, then GoPro and Vbox - because it let me concentrate on the driving while still getting video and data.

ProCoach

Just to clarify, VBOX Sport is a data logger with no display ($429), VIDEO VBOX HD2 ($2700 for two camera model) is a data logger with integrated and synced video.

Mahler9th

I started doing DE in 1987 at Lime Rock.

I strongly disagree with anyone recommending against having a video set up early on. If simply having a video camera in your car at your early DE's is a distraction, then perhaps other sports will beckon.

I have been using video as a learning and teaching tool since I mounted a rented, full-sized VHS camcorder in my car in the 90's. Not too long into my video experience, I followed the advice of the great Henry Watts (Secrets of Solo Racing) and put a light on my dash (and in the camera's FOV) that comes on with the brake lights.

Later I added a second light that comes on at WOT.

You'd be surprised by how much info you can get from reviewing a video with these simple and inexpensive methods. My best student ever learned from video review and ride along instruction from myself and another mentor. She was able to achieve TTOD in a competitive PCA event back in the day. Perhaps the only woman in PCA history to do so.

Her greatest challenger was in a similar GT car with a 3.8L engine, but his was turbocharged and had a multilink suspension. Twice the BHP as her car. And he was the CDI. And the aforementioned author Mr. Watts. She achieved this by watching her Saturday sessions on Saturday evening after the track side party/BBQ. We spent about 30 minutes before crashing in the hotel, and on Sunday morning she applied what she learned.

I just installed an AIM system purchased from Peter Krause. Yet I have kept my dash mounted brake and WOT lights for quick visual reference.

My set up does not (yet) include a SmartyCam. If/when I get one, I will keep my dash lights.

I encourage all students to consider spending as much time prepping for early DE experiences as possible, and now that there are lots of ways to get video into the cars, I encourage that from the onset. It is pretty easy to install a brake light into most Porsche dashes, and with some cleverness you can nstall a light that comes on with WOT. Then you have a simplistic overlay of information in your video frames. You can easily brake down laps and segments with these methods without looking at squiggly lines and going through a bunch of computer stuff as you learn the craft.

Sure, video can be used for entertainment and sharing the experience with friends and family. But true students of the craft will put less emphasis on that early on, and focus on using it as a tool. You don't need and expensive system to do this, and in many cases it can be best to start out with something simple.

In addition to brake and WOT lights in video FOV, it is helpful to be able to see RPM to compare corner exit speeds. I have seen folks install inexpensive secondary tachs for this purpose. I used an audio method to compare exit speeds back in the day. After I had a few events under my belt, I could dictate my exit speed in select corners whist the video was recording. I got the idea from the Skip Barber video "Going Faster!" Watching that video was part of my prep for my first ever track event at LRP in '87. I still recommend it to all students, and watch it 1-2 times each off season.

tentenths

If you are privileged enough to have a good android phone then Racechrono Pro $20 on Play Store is the killer app. Actually you could just buy a 3rd gen motorola moto-g as I did off eBay for @$130...a whole lot less than Vbox/Smartycam with better video and external audio if you want. With this app, you get predicitive timing, instant review on the phone of multiple data channels with google sat based track map and instant data overlay on the video NO RENDERING which not many of these other apps…even the over $700 ones can do. I can be reviewing my session data with synced video overlay in the seat within 10 seconds of parking after the run. None of the other systems can do this. Then you export the data in .vbo to circuit tools for even better analysis. Racechrono works best with a garmin glo gps and obdlink. It will even control a gopro as a primary or 2nd camera. If you have an iPhone you will have to live with Harry’s.

I even got it working on my macbook recently but it was hard http://imgur.com/goT3Xxe

Along with everyone else don’t run this on your first day.

Mahler9th

An approach one of my students undertook is described here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...er-review.html

Note that this gentleman is not a poor man, just handy and clever.

Lots of ways to skin this cat.

I have not tried today's myriad cell phone-based tools. Likely won't. My hypothesis is that for basic learning a simple approach can be best, and I think a brake light in FOV showing a pillar to a pillar (and driver's hands) can get you a long, long way down the road.

Mahler9th

And here is a pic of a set up from my car:



Simple 12 VDC lights from Radio Shack.

The brake light circuit is easily accessible in many Porsches and other cars.

For WOT, I have installed a $5 microswitch directly to my throttle. All it took to install was some cleverness and about an hour of time.

I can see when/where I apply brakes, and where/when I achieve WOT at all times when I view my video. Every corner, every lap.

And yes, I have seen this approach applied to many types of cars, even newer ones with OBD and CAN.

FergusH

Thanks; I clarified my original post to make that clearer.

ShakeNBake

For a novice, it's even more important to get something that is easy and fast to use, something you can work with right after a session. A Vbox lite is hard to beat, especially if you can find a used one like Peter mentions.

You can compare video side by side with respect to GPS position on track, with speed, throttle, brake overlays and at the same time as many other data channels. Being able to compare to other laps, perhaps by your instructor, with video and data, side by side, it pretty killer for learning.




This next one is Andy Lally, side by side with some other laps. Very useful to be able to get an advanced/pro lap to compare to your own.


You don't have to do this far in terms of $, but it's very helpful if you learn using data.