Cloud9...68

I'm very happy with the Aim system (Evo4S/SmartyCam) I have in my Porsche 968 track car, but would like to augment my setup with some form of in-car realtime feedback. I'm aware of three products that do this: The Garmin Catalyst, Racevoice, and Aprex Pro. Many of the features of the Catalyst would be redundant to the Aim's features, plus it's $1000, so I'm scratching it off my list. Between the other two, the main difference is that the Racevoice provides synthesized voice feedback based on the data collected by the DA system, and the Apex Pro is a standalone unit that uses data from its built-in accelerometers to provide visual feedback via a pair of light bars as to where you can go faster. So one provides auditory feedback, the other visual. Does anyone with experience with either (or preferably both) have any feedback as to which one they recommend, and why? I'm slightly leaning toward the Racevoice, because I'm a little leery of taking my eyes off the track, even for an instant, on the hightly technical tracks I mostly drive on, but could be pursuaded either way based on others' experience. Thanks.

ProCoach

I sell and use all three, so I don't care what you get, but they are all very different.

Based on what you say is important to you in both budget and the way you prefer to take in information, I think the RaceVoice might be a good choice. Given that you've got an early car and are/may not be using the CAN input on your EVO4S, that could work for the connection to the RaceVoice.

The RaceVoice is very powerful and can be used in a LOT of different ways. I recommend people use min and max corner speeds to work on specific corners, strive for a consistent and higher lat/long g loading (sustained), listen to the sector timing gain/loss and optimize shift points with it. You can make it as busy or as targeted as you want. Some of the feedback given in lap time and sector time info is similar to the Catalyst.

The Apex Pro provides you with something the RaceVoice and AiM can't, real-time, which is a comparative reading of just how much of the demonstrated tire grip, corrected for elevation, camber and relative grip levels of the surface and tires, you're using. But to get the most out of it, you should perform post-session analysis to validate when and where you're doing well and when there's more there. The SmartyCam can capture the Apex Pro LED's on it, so that is helpful, some folks do that.

The major thing you're missing about the Catalyst is the post-session analysis, where the device will show you where and how to go quicker by distilling all you're doing into the three lowest hanging opportunities for improvement, but it sounds like you don't want to spend the money on that. The Catalyst also creates for immediate review a video of your Optimal Lap, all the best segments and corners stitched together to make the "killer lap," one that YOU did. That can answer a lot of line/gear/control input questions quite definitively.

Let me know if I can help, I have RV's and Catalysts in stock, waiting on GenII Apex Pros. Can help with your integration into the AiM, which you should use.

Cloud9...68

Thanks, Peter, that's great input. I haven't seen too much written about the Racevoice, so I'm glad to hear your positive comments about it. Since I already have the Evo4S, and find it's post-session analysis very powerful and useful, I don't think the Catalyst would provide enough incremental benefit to justify its cost over the RV or Aprx Pro, since the main thing I'm after is in-car feedback.

Matt Romanowski

The Apex Pro Gen II has been on preorders for a bit. Like everyone else, they are having trouble sourcing chips and other components. You might find some Gen I devices available still.

Apex will be a totally separate device. I know Jeff W has a RV and really likes it. He commented on it this week after being at the Glen. It sounds like that might be what you really want. For some reason I thought I saw that they had a new connection method to listen in on the AiM bus (Smartycam feed)? That would make install really easy if exist.

ProCoach

RaceVoice can load their own .xc1 into RS3.

ProCoach

I think the RV is the way to go, then.

Let me know if I can help. I have two on the shelf and between me and the maker, we can get you straight in no time. If you're facile with the AiM Configuration and Analysis, you will be able to do many things with the RV-AiM linkage that could prove useful, for sure.

Matt Romanowski

I know it CAN, I have talked to them about it before From their original work, their protocol works, it makes it difficult to use with other CAN2 items. Things like TPMS, HR, and a host of other items could cause problems and are not really supported yet from our last conversations and customers comments this summer.

Cloud9...68

Are you recommending the RV over the Apex Pro because of the fact that it's audio-based, or for some other reason? Thanks.

ProCoach

Drivers generally use this technology to improve in two ways.

One, which it sounds like you are using, is the post session analysis provided by the AiM logger. That is what most people do.

The other is using real-time feedback to benchmark and/or validate that what they are doing is better/worse than a baseline or their previous performance, either in that session, against a personal best or against other peoples data. This is what most of the pros do.

You said you wanted real-time feedback. You said you weren’t sure you could assimilate the purely visual real-time feedback (and it’s only one, albeit the most important, measure) while on track, that you’d prefer audible prompts.

I’m recommending RaceVoice because it can be configured to provide real-time feedback across a wide variety of measures. You can’t do it in AiM, but with MoTeC and VBOX, I can configure the RaceVoice to give me the split in real time against a reference lap from someone else that I load into the logger!

But, I digress. The number one reason why drivers don’t improve and get “stuck” is because they are undisciplined and do the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. If I told you that your vMin should be 62-64 at Turn 16 Sebring, or 72-74 at Turn 17, and you had the RaceVoice, you could set it to call out what your vMin was and more importantly WHERE it was (early or, heaven forbid, LATE in the corner).

I recommend the RV because you can configure it more different ways, to attack and provide real time feedback for many, many areas on track, many measures and potentially develop nearly unlimited opportunities for improvement. The Apex Pro cannot. The Catalyst does a lot of this, plus guides you.

You need to develop a workflow and methodology to try things and identify areas of opportunity in the AiM that you can then validate on track using the RaceVoice unit.

Let me know if I can help.

Cloud9...68

Thanks, Peter - great summary of the RV's capabilities, which are exactly what I'm looking for. I'll be placing my order soon.

ProCoach

Now that I know you drive a Radical, I can tell you that to build up to the capability of the car, this would help a great deal!

Also, calling out vMins would let you know IN the Race, WHY your lap times aren't as good as in your excellent Qualy sessions.

Matt Romanowski

Remember that depending on the Radical, they have the 22 pin harness already in use and tapping into CAN2 requires repinning the AS connector. Not straight forward or DIY at the track.

ProCoach

Must be an older car. He says he has an EVO4S.

jwasilko

My spidey sense said someone mentioned me :-)

I really like the RV--I race a miata, and really focus on corner vMin. I usually pick a 2-3 critical corners and have RV call out min and exit speeds for those corners.

I have used some of the other features occasionally but I find the vMin feature was what I really wanted/needed.

The ability to warn you on engine problems (low oil pressure/battery voltage/high water temp) are also handy and could save you.

Cloud9...68

Sorry for the confusion I've created. I drive two cars for different purposes. I own a track-prepped Porsche 968 with an Evo4S that I use in DE-style sessions at local tracks in and around Austin, Texas where I live. This is the car I've spent most of this thread referring to.

I also participate in an arrive-and-drive race series where I drive a rented Radical SR1 at Atlanta Motorsports Park. I was going to mention that it would be great if I could add some sort of in-car feedback product to the Radical, but recognize that this will be challenging, since it isn't my car. I'm open to any suggestions as to how I might be able to pull this off, but of course I will have to get approval from the head of the organization (Primal Racing) that owns the Radicals. The Radicals do have some sort of Aim systems in them as well.