Newbie AIM data questions
02-01-2018, 05:22 PM
#1
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Newbie AIM data questions
I am contemplating getting my feet wet with some limited use of data in my 2004 GT3. Probably with an AIM SOLO DL. My shop can help to set up and start to interpret data, they have a lot of AIM experience. BTW - in any case, this is in a DE/lapping context, not racing. Interested to hear thoughts on the following:
1. If I delay adding the video overlay (buying a Smartycam later), how useful will the information be to me on a standalone basis? i.e. how critical is the video integration to get value out of the data?
2. My car is still a street car, and I want to keep it nice and tidy. What are my install options for the SOLO - is there a slick way to dash mount without damaging/permanently altering anything, or is a suction mount the way to do this. I would like to understand/see what my options are for the cleanest install. I understand the mounting has to really be in the windshield area for the GPS to work properly?
3. Are there ways to incorporate brake pressure, oil pressure, oil temp, shift lights into this setup - and if not, is there a better solution I should be looking at. Or just use what I can get out of the SOLO DL to get started?
Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.
Cheers
Matt
1. If I delay adding the video overlay (buying a Smartycam later), how useful will the information be to me on a standalone basis? i.e. how critical is the video integration to get value out of the data?
2. My car is still a street car, and I want to keep it nice and tidy. What are my install options for the SOLO - is there a slick way to dash mount without damaging/permanently altering anything, or is a suction mount the way to do this. I would like to understand/see what my options are for the cleanest install. I understand the mounting has to really be in the windshield area for the GPS to work properly?
3. Are there ways to incorporate brake pressure, oil pressure, oil temp, shift lights into this setup - and if not, is there a better solution I should be looking at. Or just use what I can get out of the SOLO DL to get started?
Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.
Cheers
Matt
02-01-2018, 05:36 PM
#2
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Great Questions!
For all the basic analysis, you'll get plenty from just the DL to improve your driving. IMHO, things like braking, throttle application, and even cornering inputs are much better analyzed in the data, not video. The video provides context to why something was done, but it's much harder to analyze braking in video than data.
For a street car, I think the suction mount is the best option.
There is not way to put any additional inputs to the DL. For that, you would need a dash (MXL2, MXS, or MXG) or an Evo4s/Evo5 with a GS Dash. I've done bunch of those in dual use cars. That will give you the same measures as the DL plus the ability to add analog inputs. I've also done a nice little bracket for the dash where it holds the dash and GPS antenna on a suction mount, so it's easy to remove when away from the track. The recorder unit stays mounted under the dash and it's a simply 1 or 2 wire hookup.
For all the basic analysis, you'll get plenty from just the DL to improve your driving. IMHO, things like braking, throttle application, and even cornering inputs are much better analyzed in the data, not video. The video provides context to why something was done, but it's much harder to analyze braking in video than data.
For a street car, I think the suction mount is the best option.
There is not way to put any additional inputs to the DL. For that, you would need a dash (MXL2, MXS, or MXG) or an Evo4s/Evo5 with a GS Dash. I've done bunch of those in dual use cars. That will give you the same measures as the DL plus the ability to add analog inputs. I've also done a nice little bracket for the dash where it holds the dash and GPS antenna on a suction mount, so it's easy to remove when away from the track. The recorder unit stays mounted under the dash and it's a simply 1 or 2 wire hookup.
02-01-2018, 06:49 PM
#3
My advice to you would be to start with an inexpensive lap timer app such as Harry's.
Only after you have mastered using such a simple, cheap phone app should you consider stepping up to AiM. There is nothing user friendly about AiM software, so beware. Your next step after the phone timing app is an AiM Solo, as you mentioned. Once you feel familiar with that, then consider moving up to a full data logger system.
There is a recent thread related to this topic which you should check out.
Only after you have mastered using such a simple, cheap phone app should you consider stepping up to AiM. There is nothing user friendly about AiM software, so beware. Your next step after the phone timing app is an AiM Solo, as you mentioned. Once you feel familiar with that, then consider moving up to a full data logger system.
There is a recent thread related to this topic which you should check out.
02-01-2018, 07:44 PM
#5
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Great Questions!
For all the basic analysis, you'll get plenty from just the DL to improve your driving. IMHO, things like braking, throttle application, and even cornering inputs are much better analyzed in the data, not video. The video provides context to why something was done, but it's much harder to analyze braking in video than data.
For a street car, I think the suction mount is the best option.
There is not way to put any additional inputs to the DL. For that, you would need a dash (MXL2, MXS, or MXG) or an Evo4s/Evo5 with a GS Dash. I've done bunch of those in dual use cars. That will give you the same measures as the DL plus the ability to add analog inputs. I've also done a nice little bracket for the dash where it holds the dash and GPS antenna on a suction mount, so it's easy to remove when away from the track. The recorder unit stays mounted under the dash and it's a simply 1 or 2 wire hookup.
For all the basic analysis, you'll get plenty from just the DL to improve your driving. IMHO, things like braking, throttle application, and even cornering inputs are much better analyzed in the data, not video. The video provides context to why something was done, but it's much harder to analyze braking in video than data.
For a street car, I think the suction mount is the best option.
There is not way to put any additional inputs to the DL. For that, you would need a dash (MXL2, MXS, or MXG) or an Evo4s/Evo5 with a GS Dash. I've done bunch of those in dual use cars. That will give you the same measures as the DL plus the ability to add analog inputs. I've also done a nice little bracket for the dash where it holds the dash and GPS antenna on a suction mount, so it's easy to remove when away from the track. The recorder unit stays mounted under the dash and it's a simply 1 or 2 wire hookup.
As far as the learning curve on the AIM software, if you have someone to show you the ropes, it's not really that hard to run.
FWIW, I don't think the smartphone solutions are useful for much more than recording laps times and video. There's not much in the way of analysis there.
02-01-2018, 10:30 PM
#6
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Matt, do you know if the SOLO2 DL will allow the programmable lights to be used as shift lights? Also, to be clear, depending upon the ECU, the SOLO/SOLO2 DL's with a CAN connection will allow logging of most if not all of what the OP wants, it just won't display them in real time. Correct?
As far as the learning curve on the AIM software, if you have someone to show you the ropes, it's not really that hard to run.
FWIW, I don't think the smartphone solutions are useful for much more than recording laps times and video. There's not much in the way of analysis there.
As far as the learning curve on the AIM software, if you have someone to show you the ropes, it's not really that hard to run.
FWIW, I don't think the smartphone solutions are useful for much more than recording laps times and video. There's not much in the way of analysis there.
Agreed about the phone apps. While some have used PPTA successfully, they end up buying enough accessories (plus their phone) that the cost is well beyond the more reliable, accurate abs substantially more powerful VBOX Sport or Solo/Solo DL. I’ve not seen any serious or repeatable analysis from HLT except in real time. And even that is of interest more than lasting value. Agree that anything is better than nothing, but you can do a lot more for a little more.
02-01-2018, 10:45 PM
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I am contemplating getting my feet wet with some limited use of data in my 2004 GT3. Probably with an AIM SOLO DL. My shop can help to set up and start to interpret data, they have a lot of AIM experience. BTW - in any case, this is in a DE/lapping context, not racing. Interested to hear thoughts on the following:
1. If I delay adding the video overlay (buying a Smartycam later), how useful will the information be to me on a standalone basis? i.e. how critical is the video integration to get value out of the data?
2. My car is still a street car, and I want to keep it nice and tidy. What are my install options for the SOLO - is there a slick way to dash mount without damaging/permanently altering anything, or is a suction mount the way to do this. I would like to understand/see what my options are for the cleanest install. I understand the mounting has to really be in the windshield area for the GPS to work properly?
3. Are there ways to incorporate brake pressure, oil pressure, oil temp, shift lights into this setup - and if not, is there a better solution I should be looking at. Or just use what I can get out of the SOLO DL to get started?
Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.
Cheers
Matt
1. If I delay adding the video overlay (buying a Smartycam later), how useful will the information be to me on a standalone basis? i.e. how critical is the video integration to get value out of the data?
2. My car is still a street car, and I want to keep it nice and tidy. What are my install options for the SOLO - is there a slick way to dash mount without damaging/permanently altering anything, or is a suction mount the way to do this. I would like to understand/see what my options are for the cleanest install. I understand the mounting has to really be in the windshield area for the GPS to work properly?
3. Are there ways to incorporate brake pressure, oil pressure, oil temp, shift lights into this setup - and if not, is there a better solution I should be looking at. Or just use what I can get out of the SOLO DL to get started?
Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.
Cheers
Matt
need to eventually use AiM’s planned auto-sync video within the data analysis window, IS the MOST easily assimilated way to review your information, even before diving into squiggly lines, colored maps, scatter plots and channel reports.
Video (and audio) of you interacting with the car, validating proper placement and providing auditory feedback is critical in not only shortening your learning curve with the data, but also encourage the best use of that data, validated by what you were seeing, feeling and doing in the car to MAKE those squiggly lines. You have to have the complete picture to come
to the correct conclusion and having video eliminates almost all the opportunity for misreading what you see from the Solo DL, again, this is my opinion and experience using and teaching others to coach themselves with this equipment.
I see no difference in the importance of having this information whether a lifelong DE’er or an IMSA GT3 Cup racer. Doesn’t matter. It’s value is unparalleled.
If you can wait a few months, the MXm might be perfect for you. Matt or I can tell you all about it and both of us (and Jerry Austin) could rig this up so it’s in and out on a suction cup in less than 90 seconds.
Glad to hear of your interest!
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02-01-2018, 10:54 PM
#8
I've had AIM Solo for awhile and although I've just scratched the surface of what's possible I find it very helpful. I use a RAM suction mount on the windshield and a tether to the rearview mirror for safety. very easy to start using. It knows where it is and starts automatically. Never misses laps. I have to be careful to not overly focus on Predicted T, but that has helped me to get to throttle sooner on corner exit for example. The software is a little difficult for me but getting some basics is not too bad. Speed vs Distance and Long G plots can show a lot. Overlay of other's data or a reference lap by a coach is highly valuable. Ross Bentley recently did a webinar on basics of using data and you might find that useful.
02-01-2018, 11:15 PM
#9
Any links to pictures of an install like this, especially with analog inputs? Always cool to see what others have done for inspiration.
02-01-2018, 11:33 PM
#10
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In Matt Lanes case, the only major measure that the Solo DL/Solo 2 DL would not get trom the car would be brake pressure. Two leads (three with a SmartyCam) would stay with the car, one to the power/CAN in the fuse box area, one to the brake pressure sensor in the forward compartment, professionally plumbed by an experienced shop,
Pop the logger, already mounted on the suction cup
moint, connect two wires and go!
But I think we’re getting ahead of ourselves. I see little reason for a dual use car, unless heavily biased towards track use, to have a dedicated logger. With the 996 GT3, you can get enough info, and put that info on the SmartyCam video with one cable from the Solo DL/Solo 2 DL to the camera, to keep one busy for a LONG time!
02-02-2018, 09:25 AM
#11
"AIM is great. Super easy to setup and use."
Not in my experience.
I had to have my EVO4 replaced because it was defective. The AiM distributor in Lake Elsinore replaced it after testing it.
My SmartyCam was sent to Italy for repair. Have not heard yet what the problem was and haven't had a chance to test it again.
Currently having software problems that Matt has been helping me with. He was not able to figure out what the problem is and sent my data files to Italy.
So, ah, no. I don't think AiM is trouble free and easy to use. The only reason I continue to use it is because I have too much time invested in learning to use the software.
Not in my experience.
I had to have my EVO4 replaced because it was defective. The AiM distributor in Lake Elsinore replaced it after testing it.
My SmartyCam was sent to Italy for repair. Have not heard yet what the problem was and haven't had a chance to test it again.
Currently having software problems that Matt has been helping me with. He was not able to figure out what the problem is and sent my data files to Italy.
So, ah, no. I don't think AiM is trouble free and easy to use. The only reason I continue to use it is because I have too much time invested in learning to use the software.
02-02-2018, 11:16 AM
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"AIM is great. Super easy to setup and use."
Not in my experience.
I had to have my EVO4 replaced because it was defective. The AiM distributor in Lake Elsinore replaced it after testing it.
My SmartyCam was sent to Italy for repair. Have not heard yet what the problem was and haven't had a chance to test it again.
Currently having software problems that Matt has been helping me with. He was not able to figure out what the problem is and sent my data files to Italy.
So, ah, no. I don't think AiM is trouble free and easy to use. The only reason I continue to use it is because I have too much time invested in learning to use the software.
Not in my experience.
I had to have my EVO4 replaced because it was defective. The AiM distributor in Lake Elsinore replaced it after testing it.
My SmartyCam was sent to Italy for repair. Have not heard yet what the problem was and haven't had a chance to test it again.
Currently having software problems that Matt has been helping me with. He was not able to figure out what the problem is and sent my data files to Italy.
So, ah, no. I don't think AiM is trouble free and easy to use. The only reason I continue to use it is because I have too much time invested in learning to use the software.
Let’s face it, no technology is problem free, especially when scaled for the consumer market. While I’ve seen a handful of EVO4’s have trouble (and more than one user induced) and a few (out of hundreds) SmartyCams have issues (and what computer doesn’t, which is what a SmartyCam is with a processor, CPU and GPU, in a hostile environment), it’s exceedingly rare (like never, for me) to have a problem with BOTH.
I don’t think your problem is typical, EXCEPT for the steep learning curve on the software, which is absolutely true. The mistake may be that for ALL of the hardware vendors, which finance software development from sales revenue, the sales people make it sound easy to get people to buy, the engineers make it more configurable, powerful and by necessity, more complex, THINKING they are adding value, when they’re really making the stairs to learning it steeper.
But, of all the systems, AIM has the best outreach and repository of learning resources. They need it...
Good luck and please keep us posted!
02-02-2018, 11:40 AM
#13
Just for the record, I did not do any installation myself. All was done by an AiM dealer.
So if it's a one in a million chance that I have a problem with both my EVO4 datalogger, and my SmartyCam, plus all these software issues, I understand that it is easy for AiM to say that it's all my fault. However, until someone can tell me what exactly I'm doing wrong, I'm not going to blame myself.
I do about 25 test days/track days/vintage races a year. It would be nice if I could just concentrate on my driving rather than constantly having to deal with hardware and software issues.
So if it's a one in a million chance that I have a problem with both my EVO4 datalogger, and my SmartyCam, plus all these software issues, I understand that it is easy for AiM to say that it's all my fault. However, until someone can tell me what exactly I'm doing wrong, I'm not going to blame myself.
I do about 25 test days/track days/vintage races a year. It would be nice if I could just concentrate on my driving rather than constantly having to deal with hardware and software issues.
02-02-2018, 12:01 PM
#14
Considering the entire MXm display/logger is not much bigger than the Solo 2 DL (meaning it could be mounted to the RAM windshield suction cup mount for portable use), and only $400 more for a lot of expandable power, you would first need to determine what in the car you want to measure that is NOT present in the CAN or OBDII feed from the car.
In Matt Lanes case, the only major measure that the Solo DL/Solo 2 DL would not get trom the car would be brake pressure. Two leads (three with a SmartyCam) would stay with the car, one to the power/CAN in the fuse box area, one to the brake pressure sensor in the forward compartment, professionally plumbed by an experienced shop,
Pop the logger, already mounted on the suction cup
moint, connect two wires and go!
But I think we’re getting ahead of ourselves. I see little reason for a dual use car, unless heavily biased towards track use, to have a dedicated logger. With the 996 GT3, you can get enough info, and put that info on the SmartyCam video with one cable from the Solo DL/Solo 2 DL to the camera, to keep one busy for a LONG time!
In Matt Lanes case, the only major measure that the Solo DL/Solo 2 DL would not get trom the car would be brake pressure. Two leads (three with a SmartyCam) would stay with the car, one to the power/CAN in the fuse box area, one to the brake pressure sensor in the forward compartment, professionally plumbed by an experienced shop,
Pop the logger, already mounted on the suction cup
moint, connect two wires and go!
But I think we’re getting ahead of ourselves. I see little reason for a dual use car, unless heavily biased towards track use, to have a dedicated logger. With the 996 GT3, you can get enough info, and put that info on the SmartyCam video with one cable from the Solo DL/Solo 2 DL to the camera, to keep one busy for a LONG time!
In my former line of work I would occasionally need to log engine oil pressure (F/R of each head and pump) and temperature (sump, pump, post cooler, and rear of each head) at 4+ locations (plus a few CAN channels) during product development. Often was a several week waiting list in order to reserve one of the "full" motec systems for testing.
02-02-2018, 12:19 PM
#15
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Absolutely getting ahead of myself. My interest is mostly for my own education/entertainment of what exists, rather than for personal use.
In my former line of work I would occasionally need to log engine oil pressure (F/R of each head and pump) and temperature (sump, pump, post cooler, and rear of each head) at 4+ locations (plus a few CAN channels) during product development. Often was a several week waiting list in order to reserve one of the "full" motec systems for testing.
In my former line of work I would occasionally need to log engine oil pressure (F/R of each head and pump) and temperature (sump, pump, post cooler, and rear of each head) at 4+ locations (plus a few CAN channels) during product development. Often was a several week waiting list in order to reserve one of the "full" motec systems for testing.