Apex Pro Digital Driving Coach Review
08-09-2017, 01:27 PM
#16
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Horses for courses not doubt, but for me a simple representation of the gap between grip I'm using and grip I could be using seems more useful and more immediate than purely looking at what I am using. Immediate to a point. I don't have a Digital Coach box but I suspect I'm not far enough ahead of the car to be able to grok it real time around the track but I look at video between sessions routinely so Joe's idea of putting the box in view of the camera sounds like a winner.
Not to take away from the value of a G Sum trace: I've been focused on that one a lot this season and that alone has helped me find places where I'm now doing a much better job breaking and entering and that of course is reflected in the speed traces creeping up and lap times creeping down!
Ditto. That said, my intent at least is to explore what you can and can't reasonably do with other data systems to get at equivalent information as a means to better understand how the Digital Coach differentiates itself.
No ONE data system provides every optimal aspect for driver and car performance evaluation, analysis or improvement.
I don't view the DDC as a substitute for or competitor against conventional, gSum producing (among other measures, as well as video) loggers and analysis software.
It does include a component that is not present in any of the others. The machine-learning component, which is why I think it's particularly valuable for those not endowed with "natural talent." Few are...
I don't care what people buy or use, just that they use something, and learn how to use it (or just a few measures) well. We've been blessed with tech that is increasingly easier to use, for sure.
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
08-20-2017, 02:14 PM
#17
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So now I have one of these myself -- thanks for setting me up there, Peter, especially for the help getting it to me to fit around my wacky schedule! I especially want to thank you for taking the time to confirm that there's no issue with RaceLogic or AiM cameras capturing the LEDs on video before sending the unit my way.
I wrote up my experience so far here (that's a link; rather than repeating the whole text in this thread as well verbatim).
As you will see from that, there are some rough edges perhaps in the app but equally if you read the reply from Andrew at Apex it seems they are committed to keep working on it and adding capability and reliability. If this kind of thing is interesting to you though I'd say there's no reason to hold off; none of the issues are really going to compromise what you can do with the device (in my view anyway)...and it's only going to get better from here.
Bottom line: I rather like it. I'm a kinesthetic learner first but visual second. This device sort of appeals to both aspects. I feel like I'm going to be able extract value from it during and after sessions. [but I'm not tossing out my data/video logger any time soon either!]
I wrote up my experience so far here (that's a link; rather than repeating the whole text in this thread as well verbatim).
As you will see from that, there are some rough edges perhaps in the app but equally if you read the reply from Andrew at Apex it seems they are committed to keep working on it and adding capability and reliability. If this kind of thing is interesting to you though I'd say there's no reason to hold off; none of the issues are really going to compromise what you can do with the device (in my view anyway)...and it's only going to get better from here.
Bottom line: I rather like it. I'm a kinesthetic learner first but visual second. This device sort of appeals to both aspects. I feel like I'm going to be able extract value from it during and after sessions. [but I'm not tossing out my data/video logger any time soon either!
]
08-20-2017, 10:58 PM
#18
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So now I have one of these myself -- thanks for setting me up there, Peter, especially for the help getting it to me to fit around my wacky schedule! I especially want to thank you for taking the time to confirm that there's no issue with RaceLogic or AiM cameras capturing the LEDs on video before sending the unit my way.
I wrote up my experience so far here (that's a link; rather than repeating the whole text in this thread as well verbatim).
As you will see from that, there are some rough edges perhaps in the app but equally if you read the reply from Andrew at Apex it seems they are committed to keep working on it and adding capability and reliability. If this kind of thing is interesting to you though I'd say there's no reason to hold off; none of the issues are really going to compromise what you can do with the device (in my view anyway)...and it's only going to get better from here.
Bottom line: I rather like it. I'm a kinesthetic learner first but visual second. This device sort of appeals to both aspects. I feel like I'm going to be able extract value from it during and after sessions. [but I'm not tossing out my data/video logger any time soon either!]
I wrote up my experience so far here (that's a link; rather than repeating the whole text in this thread as well verbatim).
As you will see from that, there are some rough edges perhaps in the app but equally if you read the reply from Andrew at Apex it seems they are committed to keep working on it and adding capability and reliability. If this kind of thing is interesting to you though I'd say there's no reason to hold off; none of the issues are really going to compromise what you can do with the device (in my view anyway)...and it's only going to get better from here.
Bottom line: I rather like it. I'm a kinesthetic learner first but visual second. This device sort of appeals to both aspects. I feel like I'm going to be able extract value from it during and after sessions. [but I'm not tossing out my data/video logger any time soon either!
]
08-21-2017, 07:14 PM
#19
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Thanks again for the review Mark. Check the App for updates regularly, as all of the issues experienced are app related, not hardware related as we alluded to on the other post.
We appreciate the business from all of our dealers and customers, and can't wait to develop further tools to help drivers improve! I'm with you Mark, I think this device does the best job of associating the kinesthetic aspect of driving to something visual. It makes the limit more apparent, and easier to understand!
We appreciate the business from all of our dealers and customers, and can't wait to develop further tools to help drivers improve! I'm with you Mark, I think this device does the best job of associating the kinesthetic aspect of driving to something visual. It makes the limit more apparent, and easier to understand!
08-23-2017, 09:06 PM
#20
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Hi Andrew:
I notice a couple of updates fly by for the app today: very happy to see you guys continue the stream of fixes and improvements.
In the change history for the first one it talked about battery life indication for units with firmware >= 2.61
The app settings page shows my unit to have firmware version 2.4.
Obvious question follows: how do I get the firmware updated??
I notice a couple of updates fly by for the app today: very happy to see you guys continue the stream of fixes and improvements.
In the change history for the first one it talked about battery life indication for units with firmware >= 2.61
The app settings page shows my unit to have firmware version 2.4.
Obvious question follows: how do I get the firmware updated??
08-24-2017, 11:59 AM
#21
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Hey Mark,
As far as updating, every unit that has a 2.0 or higher has identical coaching performance - we push updates to the coaching algorithm through the app, so be sure to update the app frequently and you will have the best experience.
Firmware is like a serial number, it just identifies manufacturing date. Exact firmware number helps us identify errors if you ever have a problem.
That note from our developers in the latest update is about compatibility with hardware which will start shipping this Fall and will have a battery life indicator, partly responsive to comments from Rennlist! They are not available yet; the functionality requires new internal components that have not been implemented, but should ready soon.
Hope this adequately answers your question!
As far as updating, every unit that has a 2.0 or higher has identical coaching performance - we push updates to the coaching algorithm through the app, so be sure to update the app frequently and you will have the best experience.
Firmware is like a serial number, it just identifies manufacturing date. Exact firmware number helps us identify errors if you ever have a problem.
That note from our developers in the latest update is about compatibility with hardware which will start shipping this Fall and will have a battery life indicator, partly responsive to comments from Rennlist! They are not available yet; the functionality requires new internal components that have not been implemented, but should ready soon.
Hope this adequately answers your question!
08-24-2017, 12:36 PM
#22
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OK, well that's atypical [in my experience...I do firmware for a living albeit in different device contexts of course]. It's normal for hardware revision numbers and firmware revision numbers to be separate...and in the devices I'm more familiar with firmware can generally be updated; bug fixes for function or robustness issues more or less demand that anymore
From your note I take it that a) device firmware cannot be updated in the DDC; and b) the battery life indication will only be available with as yet unreleased hardware. Correct??
Your comment about pushing algorithm updates via the app is interesting though. Does that imply that the phone must be in the car and BT connected for the device to work at all?? I guess that must be a "yes" if the algorithm runs on the phone and what's more that must mean that the phone and the DDC unit are talking fairly constantly as you drive, right?? Otherwise, the app must be pushing bits into the device if the app updates continue to take effect event after the phone is taken out of range (in which case I'd imagine that's actually a firmware update going on there...guess I'll keep an eye on that firmware revision number as updates show up)
From your note I take it that a) device firmware cannot be updated in the DDC; and b) the battery life indication will only be available with as yet unreleased hardware. Correct??
Your comment about pushing algorithm updates via the app is interesting though. Does that imply that the phone must be in the car and BT connected for the device to work at all?? I guess that must be a "yes" if the algorithm runs on the phone and what's more that must mean that the phone and the DDC unit are talking fairly constantly as you drive, right?? Otherwise, the app must be pushing bits into the device if the app updates continue to take effect event after the phone is taken out of range (in which case I'd imagine that's actually a firmware update going on there...guess I'll keep an eye on that firmware revision number as updates show up
)
08-24-2017, 12:55 PM
#23
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I know the unit does NOT have to have the phone in the car to operate at full capability.
08-24-2017, 01:37 PM
#25
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OK, then "a)" above is probably not correct but "b)" probably is. And if that is the case I'd suggest that the app change log not imply that battery life indication will come along with a particular firmware revision but that rather it requires specific hardware revision to function. Minor thing perhaps, but managing customer expectations is generally a good idea -- with this kind of thing you can expect that customers are going to parse those change log entries carefully looking for nuggets
08-24-2017, 07:52 PM
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08-24-2017, 09:59 PM
#29
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I'll let Joris know as he's not around here as often. Maybe a swap at PRI if he's over again?
