mxbanker

How perfect are "original class" (over 10 yrs old) cars @ pca events?
I have upgraded stereo/speakers, 17 cup wheels and also cab top relaced but not sure top is "genuine porsche". Rules say must be "75% original" would these items dis-qualify?

Anthony Orosco

If the top is "original" replacement then that is OK. They may stick you on the wheels and stereo though. Best thing to do is call and ask them if possible. The wheels and stereo may not account for 25%.

Anthony

PORSCHE RED 951

Hi,
I entered my 1986 Porsche 944 turbo in two recent concours events. I was also questioning the 75% org. exterior and interior.
My car has aftermarket wheels, front splitter, side skirts, 968 door handles and side mirrors.
I won 2nd place in both events which included the 924, 944, 944T and 968's. They took in concideration the added or modified parts and deducted it from total posiable points of 10 for each the exterior and interior. And gave me bonus points for how old the car was to date and added points for condition of exterior and interior. I can never place first being it has to be 100% original but 2nd place is darn good for me!

mxbanker

p-red,
Does your car have original paint and interior? Is paint and body flawless or...?
What year is it? Thanks for info!
In the shade mine looks flawless but in the bright sun i have picked up some blemishes (paint chips etc) i didnt even know were there- aarrrghh

PORSCHE RED 951

The car has original paint plus the added side skirts and front splitter they where painted to match the car's exterior color "guards red". The 944T is a 1986 model with 74,000 org. miles. The car is garaged so the paint does not get alot of sun beating down on it. My car does have some paint chips and a few very shallow dings that is not noticeable in the sunlight. They judges did deduct a few points. Yes, the interior is original with the exeception of a 930cs steering wheel, carbon fiber trim and racing pedels. If your car shows well even if it is not all original it should get you at least a second place in the concours.

mxbanker

P-RED Thanks a lot. Good info. If you go to www.German-autofest.com look me up i'll buy you a beer or whatever you drink

RJT

Mxbanker...

You are in Ventura which would be the Santa Barbara Region of PCA, correct? That is in Zone 8. Robert and I were certified Zone 8 judges when we were living in L.A. and we also competed with a 911, 944 and a 356 in the Zone 8 Concours series. let me tell you, Zone 8 is very competative and tough. Probably one of the toughest Cocnours series in PCA along with Zone 1 and maybe 7. It is the Zone to be in if you want to learn all the fine details of Concouring before taking the big jump to Porsche Parade level where the judging is super intense. If you grow a thick skin when you first start doing Concours and don't take anything said to you about your car personally, you will do just fine. Some judges are stickerlers for everything to be 100% original or at least the best looking repro's of the original. Any additional modifications will tick off some judges while others might overlook it if it has been done in a tastful manner. Still other judges as not so picky about 100% originality but it better be spotless or big points off. We were at a Los Angeles Region Concours once where we over heard the conversation of two other judges who were under a Full Concours 356 discussing weather or not a certain bolt was turned in the right direction as if would have been from the factory. "Moe. Is this bolt supposed to be turned to the left? Gee Curley, I think it was supposed to be turned to the right. Go get Shemp, he'll know" Seriously, they were that serious.
We also learned the hard way about clean grease and "Factory" Clean Grease when we first started showing my 944. Long story for another day...

Is this your first Concours ever?? Why not go Wash and Shine? The judges who score that class as SUPPOSED to help you and tell you what you should look for so you can do better next time. We did wash and shine for two and a half years and learned everything we could befor we made the jump and also decided to be judges. We moved to Zone 5 which doesn't even have a Concours Series (Concours, what's that???) We did do the Concours last year when we went to the Porsche Parade in Fort Worth and entered our 356 Outlaw in FULL Concours modified Class. To our surprise we not only came home with first in Class we won our division too and went up for the Group Award (lost to a 3 week old GT3). We were jazzed. We cleaned the car for a month before hand and used a thousand q-tips just onthe undercarriage. Who knows howmany Brain cells were sacrificed by using brake cleaner in an enclosed garage!! You can get carried away............

JoAnne

mxbanker

Jo Anne,
Thanks a lot for r8 heads up. My car is far from full concours(undrcariage on a 964 yyyeeeeeooouu )but I thought I might get away with "original" class. From the sounds of it wash and shine would be it. Was originally gonna do "peoples choice" at german autofest but then started thinking maybe original PCA. I have some blemishes in paint that I would like to fix but the car has never been repaired -original so... I have porsche 17 cups, pioneer 6 disc and amp with removable face and speakers mounted in rear floorboard other than that its original non restored paint and body and original unrestored interior. What do you think "wash and shine"???

RJT

I don't want to discourage you, so you'll have to make up your own mind, but "Wash and Shine" is a great place to start. That is what "Wash and Shine" was originally started for, beginners. Just tell the judges that this is your first time and tell them you'd like to try to go original in the future. Wash and Shine class is not timed to five minutes per car like the other classes are (at least it was that way before). The judges can spend the time with you after they have finished judging your car and tell you what they think. Wash and shine only judges the Exterior and Interior so you can work on making that look the best it can possibly look and not have to worry about detailing anything else.

Want to know some places that Judges look???

JoAnne

mxbanker

Why yes (ya think ) please.

Julia

I am in Zone 7 and putting my car in Wash & Shine on Sunday. W&S does not judgfe originality nor engine compartment. I went to a judging school and learned what to look for in our zone. Street class judges originality, storage, interior and exterior. With any modifications, you might try the Wash & Shine class.

I cleaned my interior today and doing the exterior tomorrow. Q-Tips galore!! I even took my seats out to clean the rails and everything underneath.

mxbanker

Wow Julia for wash and shine you did that! Sounds like the competition is preety stiff in that class!!!

Julia

I'm not sure who my competition will be, but I want to do the best I can. I am also going to be a judge in the early 911/912 class. You can't judge your own class of car for obvious reasons! I plan on doing four more concours in our zone and would like to compete for "Rookie of the Year". It's the areas you don't think they will judge, that they will judge!! My storage (trunk) is spotless, even took off wiper housing to clean behind there. Although, they can not have you remove parts such as that, but they can stick their fingers as far back as they can reach to find dust and grime. Door jambs and locks are areas that need special attention. Judges will put their fingers in the locks to find grease. I was in a casual Wash & Shine two weeks ago and took 2nd place. That was not a Zone concours, but it was a good place to start. I was going to do Street class, but the thought of being that meticulous with the engine bay scares me. My car is all original except the CD player and paint (original color but has been repainted) so I would have 1.25 deductions right there in Street class. My husband says I have a new desease called CCARS: Concours Cleaning & Restoration Sickness!

RJT

Julia, If that is your car in the avatar, it is beautiful!

Listen to her MX. Clean Clean CLEAN..... I'd go through a box of q-tips before each Concours. Before the Parade Concours Last year Robert went through 750+ of those long medical type Q-tips, and that was just on the undercarriage! Clean is where it is at. Just be careful not to overclean. One time I was working on getting "rid" of the grease that cost me a .25 deduction and first place in the Concours I was in a couple of weeks before (I'm a sore loser). I did such a good job cleaning that "unwanted" grease that once I shut the doors, they could no longer open from the outside! Good thing that this was on the 944 and not the 911 because I was able to climb in through the hatch and reopen the doors from the inside. That is when I found out it not the grease that gets you the deduction. It was that the grease wasn't clean, it was dirty. We went out and bought grease and fixed it. Wasn't "Factory" grease, but I guess they couldn't tell

In some Zones they will ask the smaller judges to judge the interiors so they can stick there arms, fingers, whatever as far as they can behind the dash, up and around the steeering wheel etc. So if you are a bigger fellow and you were not able to reach some of the places that they could, you might get dinged. So...................................... Clean Clean CLEAN!!!!! It's really not that bad...................... Seriously...............................

Got to get back in the garage now. Max our '55 356 Continental is still up in the air being prepped for Full Concours in Hershey. Takes a long time to prep for Parade Concours and we are running out of time!!! Talk about stress. When the judges come to your car when at Parade and the timer yells "TIME", man
the sweating begins........................

What ever you do, just HAVE FUN!!!!!!!

And Julia, Tell you husband that it's not a new illness, it's been around for a long long time and there is no known Cure except to maybe invest in Johnson and Johnson Stock and keep on buying those Q-tips!!!

Julia

My hats off to you for doing Full Concours! What a feat that is. I just finished 8.5 hours non stop cleaning...after 5 hours of yesterdays. My door jambs have never been so clean and I hope I don't have the problem you did. I was in there with P21S Total Auto Wash and a toothbrush, then Q-Tips. Seriously, we used a 250 count box between the last Wash & Shine and this Zone 7 Concours. I opened a new 500 count box today. I covered him up (yes that is my Skippy) and calling him good! We'll leave at 7:15am in the morning to get there with 90 minutes of prep time. It's amazing what you redo after a 5 mile drive. The next Concours is in Monterey, so we will go down the day before.

A 356 is on our list to own. They are such great cars and I can't believe I have never driven in one. Our clubs past-president is a big 356 guy. He's doing a ground-up restoration on one and even painting it himself.

I envy you being at Parade. That must be so much fun. A couple of our members are going. Good luck and happy cleaning.

p.s. you must have a lift?? What kind did you get? That's another thing we want to get.