Base Cayenne: Opinion to PASM or Not
03-06-2019, 01:17 PM
#16
Not at all what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that performance all-seasons are a better choice if you live in a climate that occasionally gets wet and cold. Summer tires lose their stick rapidly as the temperature moves toward freezing. Add in water and the problem is exacerbated. I've had enough summer-tired cars to know this firsthand in our part of the world.
And good luck taking your summer-tired SUV off-road on anything but the lightest, smoothest of trails. Performance all-seasons will provide much better grip in those conditions.
Again, it's an SUV. If you want to play Ayrton Senna around the Kroger parking lot, better to pull out the Cayman IMHO. But then again, I'm the same guy who ended up with a 541-horsepower SUV his garage. Which, if you think about it rationally, makes NO SENSE whatsoever.
And good luck taking your summer-tired SUV off-road on anything but the lightest, smoothest of trails. Performance all-seasons will provide much better grip in those conditions.
Again, it's an SUV. If you want to play Ayrton Senna around the Kroger parking lot, better to pull out the Cayman IMHO. But then again, I'm the same guy who ended up with a 541-horsepower SUV his garage. Which, if you think about it rationally, makes NO SENSE whatsoever.
I don't think anyone here will disagree that all-season tires are a better choice if the primary motivation is to only have one set of tires. On the other hand, I also want to dispel the myth that summer tires are only for racing or to "play Ayrton Senna". Summer (and winter) tires handle better and stop shorter than all-seasons. In my book, that makes them the safer choice rather than the racer's choice. Whether one has better off-road traction is probably pointless to debate since at best there's only anecdotal evidence. They're both street tires and not really suited for much in the way of off-road conditions.
03-06-2019, 03:38 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
On the other hand, I also want to dispel the myth that summer tires are only for racing or to "play Ayrton Senna". Summer (and winter) tires handle better and stop shorter than all-seasons.
Where I disagree with you specifically is when you're playing Ayrton out-of-band seasonally to summer or winter tires. That is, if you decide to run your summer tires in dry conditions at 20 degrees Fahrenheit, you're going to see a marked degradation in handling, acceleration and stopping relative to what you'd experience at 80 degrees. The same goes for driving around on winters on a dry day at 60 degrees. In both situations, the all-seasons will perform better. Period.
So yes, there's no question that running summers when it's warm and winters when it's snowy will get you better overall performance. But in my neck of the woods, nobody does that. It rarely snows in North Texas. We get semi-regular bouts of cold, dry weather in the winter that can turn summers to skateboards. I know this. I have experienced it directly on multiple cars, as I mentioned earlier. Anecdotal? Sure. Come on down and drive my SS on summers when it's 25 degrees, and I'll make you a believer.
Whether one has better off-road traction is probably pointless to debate since at best there's only anecdotal evidence. They're both street tires and not really suited for much in the way of off-road conditions.
I do not mean to criticize your choice of summer tires, even on an SUV. Caveat emptor, carpe diem and all that. But I think it's important that people understand that summer tires are designed to operate within specific temperature and moisture ranges, and can be downright dangerous if run on the street outside of those manufacturer-recommended conditions. Since an SUV is typically the winter slogger while the GT3 stays warm and snuggy in the garage, folks should know that summer tires should absolutely not be run when the ambient temperature falls below freezing. Either buy all-seasons and live with the compromise; leave the car inside and take an Uber; or mount your winters and pray for snow.
03-06-2019, 09:59 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Did anyone notice the tire test date ?
That Edmunds test was done nearly a decade ago. Tires have changed and the materials have advanced.
I think we can agree that on on a dry road, Michelin Cup 2 etc. will give the most grip. The P0 and MP4 do a great job in the wet at warm temps. And dry roads. They’re the perfect Summer sport tire.
The new All seasons like the Potenza AS and Michelin AS are excellent tires, and will out perform a P0 or MP4 below 40F and in wet conditions approaching that temp. And off road, and in the snow. They are also an excellent dry road summer tyre. Just not as good as the MP4/P0.
go.illini - I’m sure you’ve tried the P0/MP4 at temps below 40F ? I found it less than confidence building
03-06-2019, 10:46 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
I think we can agree that on on a dry road, Michelin Cup 2 etc. will give the most grip. The P0 and MP4 do a great job in the wet at warm temps. And dry roads. They’re the perfect Summer sport tire.
The new All seasons like the Potenza AS and Michelin AS are excellent tires, and will out perform a P0 or MP4 below 40F and in wet conditions approaching that temp. And off road, and in the snow. They are also an excellent dry road summer tyre. Just not as good as the MP4/P0.
The new All seasons like the Potenza AS and Michelin AS are excellent tires, and will out perform a P0 or MP4 below 40F and in wet conditions approaching that temp. And off road, and in the snow. They are also an excellent dry road summer tyre. Just not as good as the MP4/P0.
I like the Contis a lot. They’re markedly better in the cold than the RE050s, which were a pure ultimate performance summer tire. We had a few days recently where temperatures climbed to nearly 80, and I was able to push the car a little in the corners. Handling and grip is good, but they’re not quite as sticky as I remember the gumball Bridgestones when they were new.
However, I think the performance gap is closing between these types of tires in warm weather. And in the cold, it’s no contest. To get a real differential, you probably need to go to the barely street legal end of the summer-tire spectrum, like the Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Trofeo R. I drove a Corvette equipped with the Cups, and it was incredible the amount of stick the car had. The tread was also nearly nonexistent.
Interesting and important discussion, although we’ve managed to hijack the thread. I’ll stand down now.
03-06-2019, 11:24 PM
#20
Since the base suspension was re-worked/tuned for MY2019 we went w/o pasm (still ordered $20k in options) and tested one first with 21's and w/o pasm, it rode a bit firmer than our 2017 Q7 also on 21's and steet sprung but handled better. Our Q7 came with GoodYear F1's (we chose summers) and we love them, they are XL/4x4 for SUV's. We reside in S FL with lots of summer gator gushers and the summer F1's handle the rain quite well.
