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It's not all gloom and doom, however I can tell you from my 20 yrs of Porsche experience, early production years from many Porsche models can be problematic (not at all unique to Porsche), so what I learned is to buy a car that's been in production for at least 2-3 years. Sticking to this rule, I've done well over 100k miles with several Porsche cars (911s, Macans, Panameras) and they were trouble free, but very expensive to maintain (at Porsche service). Porsches are dependable cars, once the manufacturer has worked out all the bugs, but the way Porsche goes about it is sometimes problematic and the risk of alienating first time and future buyers should be a wake up call for Porsche.
Regarding the Cayenne with Audi B9 (EA839) based engines, I'm not overly concerned. Early engines had rocker arm issues (2017/18) and those were addressed. You will see many Audi models with B9 engines on the European used car market that have already reached close to 120k miles with EU based maintenance plans of changing oil every 2 years or 20k miles. This is not bad at all for an engine that's been out for a little over 5 years.
The Lithium battery issue on early Cayennes and 992s is a terrible example how to ruin the reputation of the brand. Today, it is important to have excellent software engineers on your team when it comes to electrification aspects and in this regard, Germany is falling behind, as they have no home grown car lithium batteries production facilities and experience in this regard. They buy all batteries elsewhere and develop their own software to communicate with the rest of the car, with mixed success. Just ask early adopters of Taycans or VWs fiasco with iQ3, as an example. Consumers should not be their test mules, not at these prices.
Last edited by lucian95; 11-18-2023 at 04:18 AM.
Reason: word edit
It's not all gloom and doom, however I can tell you from my 20 yrs of Porsche experience, early production years from many Porsche models can be problematic (not at all unique to Porsche), so what I learned is to buy a car that's been in production for at least 2-3 years. Sticking to this rule, I've done well over 100k miles with several Porsche cars (911s, Macans, Panameras) and they were trouble free, but very expensive to maintain (at Porsche service). Porsches are dependable cars, once the manufacturer has worked out all the bugs, but the way Porsche goes about it is sometimes problematic and the risk of alienating first time and future buyers should be a wake up call for Porsche.
Regarding the Cayenne with Audi B9 (EA839) based engines, I'm not overly concerned. Early engines had rocker arm issues (2017/18) and those were addressed. You will see many Audi models with B9 engines on the European used car market that have already reached close to 120k miles with EU based maintenance plans of changing oil every 2 years or 20k miles. This is not bad at all for an engine that's been out for a little over 5 years.
The Lithium battery issue on early Cayennes and 992s is a terrible example how to ruin the reputation of the brand. Today, it is important to have excellent software engineers on your team when it comes to electrification aspects and in this regard, Germany is falling behind, as they have no home grown car lithium batteries production facilities and experience in this regard. They buy all batteries elsewhere and develop their own software to communicate with the rest of the car, with mixed success. Just ask early adopters of Taycans or VWs fiasco with iQ3, as an example. Consumers should not be their test mules, not at these prices.
Agree with most of this. Buying the last model year or two of an outgoing platform (for example 958.2, in a few years 9Y0.2) means you get the product with the most debugging done.
EA839 I think will be remembered as a solid engine. Rocker arm rollers are fixed now, the block has iron liners (not many do these days) and the V6 is considerably less complex than the EA825 V8. The EA839 has one oil-vapor separator, one HPFP, and one sliding camshaft system per bank. The EA825 has two oil vapor separators, two HPFPs and two sliding cam systems per bank. Plus the V8 has two more cylinders which means 2 more spark plugs and more fuel consumption. Lastly, the V8 has added complexity by the addition of cylinder deactivation. Yes, more power, I get it. But strictly from a reliability point of view, I see the EA839 as a far more (potentially) reliable engine down the road. These engines are still young in their lifecycle so time will tell.
The 9Y0.2 Cayenne S now has a more complex and potentially less long-term-reliable engine than it did in 9Y0.1.
In the back of my mind I am outlining a future thread to post preemptive maintenance repairs for the EA839 to maximize longevity. Stuff not written in the Porsche maintenance booklet. Stay tuned.
The POS battery situation is a poor decision by Porsche, plain and simple. I hold the view that an AGM + new negative cable are all that are needed to get out of the POS battery. I recommend anyone that is out warranty to try this. I would not try it under warranty because a dealer or Porsche would surely use it as an excuse to deny warranty coverage.
I would drive it to service, unless you get a message driving not permitted. Take pictures of your display showing error messages for the folks at service to avoid unnecessary debates. I assume your Lithium battery is just 3 years old.
I want to thank the person that started this thread and contributors. I put a $1000 deposit on a 2021 CPO Cayenne last Friday 11/17/23. I told the salesman let me just think about it over the weekend and I will give you a decision on Monday. I had even cleaned out my trade in, fully expecting to go through with the purchase today. UNTIL, I found this thread. I called 2 different dealerships today provided the VIN and the parts department provided my pricing on this battery in the $2200 range (parts only). I then called a third dealership for 2022 and it was $500 -ish. With this information I did not purchase the car and told the salesman exactly why, he then confirmed the price of the battery and said he wasn't aware of this. The car was for my wife and needless to say she was disappointed. As she still wants the Cayenne I will be looking for a 2022 CPO. By the way, I did find a 3rd party company in which say would take your existing battery, refurbish it for $499 (I have no idea if that's legit).. But why do we have to deal with this mess, battery tenders etc.. I will not reiterate the other comments, this is completely ridiculous. I'm a DIY shady tree mechanic because I enjoy working on my cars myself, and being Porsche I'm fully prepared to pay Porsche prices, but this is completely absurd.
Porsche does a lot of things right, and it's why I was willing to spend the money on a new 992 Turbo S. But just getting ready to trade my wifes 2019 Cayenne in and the battery goes dead....holy cow $2800 for a new battery and Porsche won't sell to non Porsche dealer service centers. How stupid is it to have a battery that cost that much to replace, what was the point? Now I'm leaning towards trading in on another brand, this is so irritating to me.
Porsche does a lot of things right, and it's why I was willing to spend the money on a new 992 Turbo S. But just getting ready to trade my wifes 2019 Cayenne in and the battery goes dead....holy cow $2800 for a new battery and Porsche won't sell to non Porsche dealer service centers. How stupid is it to have a battery that cost that much to replace, what was the point? Now I'm leaning towards trading in on another brand, this is so irritating to me.
Not only the Lithium LiFePO4 battery is expensive and with component defects in their internal controller/sensor, but in addition, Porsche’s BMS over charging defects damages the battery causing an earlier death.
Some of the Lithium LiFePO4 batteries can be fixed for around $500 by sending them to third parties where they will change the bricked controller and sensor, if the battery cells are still good.
So much for Porsche’s deceiving 10 year battery expected life marketing.
For those wondering, I drove my car perfectly fine for over 50 miles with "dead" battery to my shop. Removal of battery was very easy. Luckly one of the places that rebuilds them is not terribly far from me so I dropped it off and waiting to pick it up after Thanksgiving. Will report back on outcome.
Suppose I appoint a Porsche PPI inspection service, will the technician be knowledgeable to test or look out for these LiFePO4 issues and report back to me?
Now with this particular P/n in-hand for checking, I wonder how many used 2019 - 2022 Porsche Cayennes out there that will have this battery in place or with the new AGMs....
Originally Posted by PorscheACC
There is a new LiFePO4 Lithium battery part number that is not the defective battery produce by the problematic LG Chem company..
The part number is "9Y0-915-107-RY" and it has the same specs but hopefully not prone to early failure like the battery produced by LG Chem..
Here is the pic of my LFP battery in base Cayenne MY2022. It is an LG battery, with March 2022 stamp, part 9y0 915 105q. I use Porsche battery maintainer plugged into a cigarette lighter on the console and everything works fine (car is kept in the indoor garage). I have no idea whether this particular LFP series will have any issues, but none were reported by Porsche service. Due to data protection laws, it took some arm twisting, but they showed me a complete car history and other than a glitch with an ignition switch, car was trouble free. I bought it recently, lightly used Platinum Edition with 13k miles on the ODO (the car was used as a Porsche marketing tool, driven by an older retired sports personality). I will report back in due time once I put some miles on the car-it will be used mostly for long distance travel. Cayenne MY 2022 LFP battery (LG)
I have just got an issue with the battery last night. I have the Antigravity battery monitor sensor installed to the LFP battery and last night it showed 0% charge and the voltage began to go below 13V two days ago. My wife did use the car two days ago so I knew the battery could crank the car up and voltage goes back above 13V. But the voltage would drop below 13V once the engine was off. I attached the CTEK battery tender through the engine bay (which I always have been when I don't drive the car for a period of time) to try to see if I can charge the battery up. This morning the Antigravity sensor shows the battery is back up 100% but the battery tender remains with only 2 lights on (Stage 2 - charge with max current until approx. 90% battery capacity). Normally it would go to Stage 7 where to maintain voltage.
Is it the sign that the battery is dying or the battery controller is on its way out?
I have just got an issue with the battery last night. I have the Antigravity battery monitor sensor installed to the LFP battery and last night it showed 0% charge and the voltage began to go below 13V two days ago. My wife did use the car two days ago so I knew the battery could crank the car up and voltage goes back above 13V. But the voltage would drop below 13V once the engine was off. I attached the CTEK battery tender through the engine bay (which I always have been when I don't drive the car for a period of time) to try to see if I can charge the battery up. This morning the Antigravity sensor shows the battery is back up 100% but the battery tender remains with only 2 lights on (Stage 2 - charge with max current until approx. 90% battery capacity). Normally it would go to Stage 7 where to maintain voltage.
Is it the sign that the battery is dying or the battery controller is on its way out?
I would say your battery has some weak cells, since when the voltage is low when the engine is off, and the voltage goes up to a charging 13+ volts when you turn the engine on..
Anybody who has the service repair manuals should have a LiFePO4 voltage chart with the normal voltages and corresponding capacities left..
Did you have the dealer apply the TSB fix that overcharged and damaged the batteries?
It may not apply to you, since you seem to have been monitoring the battery voltage and charging voltage..
11-17-2023, 03:33 PM
