2019 or 2020 Cayenne e-hybrid ?
02-13-2019, 07:53 PM
#16
02-16-2019, 01:24 AM
#18
Advanced
Just got a note from my SA saying that the delivery to showrooms/release for sale date is still projected to be the 6th of September. But he is also going do some more research to see if there is an unresolved issue and we are just being jacked around.
02-16-2019, 03:26 AM
#19
My SA keeps saying delivery is still July. Called PCNA and they said the same. I mentioned EPA delays and she still said that it should be July. I can only conclude that they haven't updated the V status sheet. If it is indeed September, I'm going to be pushing for $5k compensation and free maintenance. PCNA is making way too much on these cars, especially through the finance/lease aspect, to initially tell customers April then delay it all to September, when it seems they don't file the correct paperwork on time according to other things I've read here. If it arrives in September, it'd be pretty much one year since I ordered it.
02-16-2019, 02:43 PM
#20
Advanced
My V sheet still says delivery to dealer on the 5th of July. Which, of course doesn't match my SA's memo. I ordered mine later than you did, in early November, but it's still in the March Build. My SA says he feels like the EPA has slowed everything down for Porsche, as punishment for the VW diesel fiasco. I guess we can only wait.
02-21-2019, 02:27 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Thanks! I looked up all the Porsche vehicles on fueleconomy.gov and the 2018 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid is indeed listed at $6,670. However, even though most manufacturer's 2019 models are listed, the 2019 Cayenne E-Hybrid is not listed. Perhaps it has to be approved by the EPA before getting listed? If so, you are most likely right, that it will get treated similar to the 2018 Panamera.
02-24-2019, 01:20 AM
#22
Advanced
Thread Starter
"Currently we have no detail info for the production model year for Cayenne Hybrid yet but most likely 2019. When 2020 model release, Porsche needs to go through EPA certification again. FYI new Panamera been launched since 2017 and we just received the certification for 2019 gasoline models in January" He mentioned Porsche, and the entire VW group, are under the microscope due to the diesel scandal which is causing lengthy delays with their vehicles EPA certification.
We are proceeding as well. I will be somewhat perturbed if 2020's hit show rooms in January after taking delivery of our 2019 in September (current delivery date) We do tend to keep our vehicles for 8-10 years so I suppose it will not make much of a difference at the end if the vehicle is 2019 or 2020, it will simply be old by that time and worth a fraction of it's original purchase price.
02-24-2019, 01:51 AM
#23
Advanced
Thread Starter
Were you able to test drive the E-hybrid Cayenne? I just did a build on one out of curiosity and it came out a couple grand cheaper vs the same build of the S. It seems like the E-hybrid is a better deal. Other then having the base engine v6, yet being just as quick as the S, what am I missing by going with an E-hybrid. Is it startup sound, acceleration sound that the S offers which I like. How much cargo space would I be really losing and how reliable is the Porsche hybrid system. Plan on keeping it for 8-10yrs. as my daily errrands and running kids to school, practices, etc. Average about 1200 miles a month
02-24-2019, 02:07 AM
#24
Advanced
Thread Starter
I can speak from having gone from a 2015 Panamera 4 to a 2018 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid (I've never owned a Cayenne but have driven the older S E-Hybrids and the new 2019 Cayennes at dealerships). The E-Hybrid sounds just as loud when the ICE is on as the non-hybrid. You can control when the ICE is on or off; if you want it on all the time, you can pretty much have it on all the time. The acceleration is light-years better because of the huge torque starting from stop with the electric motor. I don't think you lose any cargo space because there's no spare wheel/tire in the boot in the Cayenne any more (unlike the Macan) -- something I can't figure out, and a bad omission by Porsche. I myself can't understand why anybody would get a Panamera 4S over a Panamera 4 E-Hybrid, as the latter is cheaper and far more powerful. I love driving in all-electric mode; once you get used to that, and to all-electric cars, it really is addicting. It's especially nice to start up in my garage in electric-only mode (the default), and come home to my garage in electric-only mode -- not getting any exhaust fumes into the garage.
My E-Hybrid has nearly 18k miles on it over nearly a year now. It has behaved flawlessly -- a real dream. Porsche hit a homerun with the technology. The tech and battery pack has improved from the previous generation of E-Hybrids substantially; the all-electric range is longer by about 50% or more. I drive about 1k miles a month, mostly local driving (13 miles each way to my office can be done almost entirely on all-electric roundtrip). I get generally 1000-1200 miles per tank of gas; going to gas stations once every 5 weeks or so (vs. once a week with ICE-only previously) is priceless. I plug in every night to a simple 120-volt outlet in my garage (no need to upgrade for a 14-kWh battery pack, as it fully charges from zero overnight). I'm saving about $150-$180/month in gas savings, while my electric bill has only gone up about $50-$70/month, so about $100 net savings a month to run the car in terms of "fuel".
I've also done some long-distance trips -- the longest being a 7600-mile, 2.5-week trip across the US last summer. I didn't plug in at all on the trip but still got a respectable 29 mpg for the whole trip. And I drove quite fast on interstates out west where it's straight for miles and little traffic. Get ACC and any long distance trip is a breeze. The Cayenne may be slightly heavier than the Panamera, and it is not as aerodynamic, so I expect that the gas mileage and all-electric range will be perhaps 10-20 percent lower in the Cayenne than what I get.
People have suggested that this E-Hybrid will be very dated in 5-10 years; I disagree, because if it were to hold up without needing major repairs, it really has excellent range. Would I prefer an E-Hybrid with a 18-kWh or 20-kWh battery pack, to increase the summer range all-electric from 25 miles to 35 or 40 miles? Of course! That would be a perfect range for me. The worry with this complexity is how it would hold up over time; I can imagine repair costs being high outside of warranty. If I were to keep it for 5 or 6 years, I'd pay for the extended warranty. But my E-Hybrid is by far the best vehicle I have ever owned, and driven! I test-drove a couple of 2018 Panamera Turbos (V8, no electric motor) while I was considering buying the E-Hybrid, and the E-Hybrid (even Pan4) was light-years better, in my opinion. I would never consider another Panamera or Cayenne unless it was E-Hybrid -- they are that good. Waiting and hoping for a Macan E-Hybrid in the next couple of years...
My E-Hybrid has nearly 18k miles on it over nearly a year now. It has behaved flawlessly -- a real dream. Porsche hit a homerun with the technology. The tech and battery pack has improved from the previous generation of E-Hybrids substantially; the all-electric range is longer by about 50% or more. I drive about 1k miles a month, mostly local driving (13 miles each way to my office can be done almost entirely on all-electric roundtrip). I get generally 1000-1200 miles per tank of gas; going to gas stations once every 5 weeks or so (vs. once a week with ICE-only previously) is priceless. I plug in every night to a simple 120-volt outlet in my garage (no need to upgrade for a 14-kWh battery pack, as it fully charges from zero overnight). I'm saving about $150-$180/month in gas savings, while my electric bill has only gone up about $50-$70/month, so about $100 net savings a month to run the car in terms of "fuel".
I've also done some long-distance trips -- the longest being a 7600-mile, 2.5-week trip across the US last summer. I didn't plug in at all on the trip but still got a respectable 29 mpg for the whole trip. And I drove quite fast on interstates out west where it's straight for miles and little traffic. Get ACC and any long distance trip is a breeze. The Cayenne may be slightly heavier than the Panamera, and it is not as aerodynamic, so I expect that the gas mileage and all-electric range will be perhaps 10-20 percent lower in the Cayenne than what I get.
People have suggested that this E-Hybrid will be very dated in 5-10 years; I disagree, because if it were to hold up without needing major repairs, it really has excellent range. Would I prefer an E-Hybrid with a 18-kWh or 20-kWh battery pack, to increase the summer range all-electric from 25 miles to 35 or 40 miles? Of course! That would be a perfect range for me. The worry with this complexity is how it would hold up over time; I can imagine repair costs being high outside of warranty. If I were to keep it for 5 or 6 years, I'd pay for the extended warranty. But my E-Hybrid is by far the best vehicle I have ever owned, and driven! I test-drove a couple of 2018 Panamera Turbos (V8, no electric motor) while I was considering buying the E-Hybrid, and the E-Hybrid (even Pan4) was light-years better, in my opinion. I would never consider another Panamera or Cayenne unless it was E-Hybrid -- they are that good. Waiting and hoping for a Macan E-Hybrid in the next couple of years...
Excellent write up Cometguy, thank you. I heard through the grapevine that there is not enough room in the Macan for a hybrid/battery system. Instead it will go straight to full electric, but until things come to fruition everything is speculation. Time will tell. We originally waited to see if the Macan refresh would bring an e-hybrid variant but after having a Macan as a service loaner for a few days we came to realize that it is simply not big enough for our family needs.
02-24-2019, 04:29 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
Excellent write up Cometguy, thank you. I heard through the grapevine that there is not enough room in the Macan for a hybrid/battery system. Instead it will go straight to full electric, but until things come to fruition everything is speculation. Time will tell. We originally waited to see if the Macan refresh would bring an e-hybrid variant but after having a Macan as a service loaner for a few days we came to realize that it is simply not big enough for our family needs.
https://www.motor1.com/news/242984/p...-models-rumor/
https://insideevs.com/porsche-911-pl...ybrid-exposed/
So, if they can find the space in a 911 to have an E-Hybrid drivetrain, they can surely do it in a Macan. Perhaps battery advances in the next year or two will allow them to get more into smaller spaces; after all, Porsche has just come out this past year with the new Panamera E-Hybrid AWD after having only a RWD S E-Hybrid, and they kept the same battery-pack size in going from 10 kWh to 14 kWh, I heard (ditto for Cayenne S E-Hybrid to the new E-Hybrid).
Add to the fact that Macan is by far the best seller in the Porsche line-up, it stands to reason that they'd sell a fair amount of Macan E-Hybrids, which should be more profitable than the Panamera and Cayenne E-Hybrids because of sales numbers, and which should also help them "attain" whatever gas-mileage goals that governments are requiring now.
Porsche is talking about a Macan-looking all-electric car in its Cross Turismo, but the price tag on that is way too high for lots of Macan buyers; I think that Porsche would do better with a Macan PHEV in the base vicinity of USD $60k-$65k (which would be more in line with Cayenne E-Hybrid and Panamera E-Hybrid pricing, vs. base ICE models), in terms of sales. And even though Tesla has been a huge success, other BEV manufacturers have not come close to what Tesla has done; Tesla is more like a cult. Most people are not ready to spend lots of money (meaning more than $40k-$50k) on a BEV, period; I, for one, don't want to buy a BEV only for local commuting, and the range anxiety will keep me from getting one anytime soon. I prefer the flexibility of my PHEV.
02-24-2019, 04:57 PM
#26
I've heard rumors to that effect also. But there appears to be a Porsche 911 coming in PHEV form.
https://www.motor1.com/news/242984/p...-models-rumor/
https://insideevs.com/porsche-911-pl...ybrid-exposed/
So, if they can find the space in a 911 to have an E-Hybrid drivetrain, they can surely do it in a Macan. Perhaps battery advances in the next year or two will allow them to get more into smaller spaces; after all, Porsche has just come out this past year with the new Panamera E-Hybrid AWD after having only a RWD S E-Hybrid, and they kept the same battery-pack size in going from 10 kWh to 14 kWh, I heard (ditto for Cayenne S E-Hybrid to the new E-Hybrid).
Add to the fact that Macan is by far the best seller in the Porsche line-up, it stands to reason that they'd sell a fair amount of Macan E-Hybrids, which should be more profitable than the Panamera and Cayenne E-Hybrids because of sales numbers, and which should also help them "attain" whatever gas-mileage goals that governments are requiring now.
Porsche is talking about a Macan-looking all-electric car in its Cross Turismo, but the price tag on that is way too high for lots of Macan buyers; I think that Porsche would do better with a Macan PHEV in the base vicinity of USD $60k-$65k (which would be more in line with Cayenne E-Hybrid and Panamera E-Hybrid pricing, vs. base ICE models), in terms of sales. And even though Tesla has been a huge success, other BEV manufacturers have not come close to what Tesla has done; Tesla is more like a cult. Most people are not ready to spend lots of money (meaning more than $40k-$50k) on a BEV, period; I, for one, don't want to buy a BEV only for local commuting, and the range anxiety will keep me from getting one anytime soon. I prefer the flexibility of my PHEV.
https://www.motor1.com/news/242984/p...-models-rumor/
https://insideevs.com/porsche-911-pl...ybrid-exposed/
So, if they can find the space in a 911 to have an E-Hybrid drivetrain, they can surely do it in a Macan. Perhaps battery advances in the next year or two will allow them to get more into smaller spaces; after all, Porsche has just come out this past year with the new Panamera E-Hybrid AWD after having only a RWD S E-Hybrid, and they kept the same battery-pack size in going from 10 kWh to 14 kWh, I heard (ditto for Cayenne S E-Hybrid to the new E-Hybrid).
Add to the fact that Macan is by far the best seller in the Porsche line-up, it stands to reason that they'd sell a fair amount of Macan E-Hybrids, which should be more profitable than the Panamera and Cayenne E-Hybrids because of sales numbers, and which should also help them "attain" whatever gas-mileage goals that governments are requiring now.
Porsche is talking about a Macan-looking all-electric car in its Cross Turismo, but the price tag on that is way too high for lots of Macan buyers; I think that Porsche would do better with a Macan PHEV in the base vicinity of USD $60k-$65k (which would be more in line with Cayenne E-Hybrid and Panamera E-Hybrid pricing, vs. base ICE models), in terms of sales. And even though Tesla has been a huge success, other BEV manufacturers have not come close to what Tesla has done; Tesla is more like a cult. Most people are not ready to spend lots of money (meaning more than $40k-$50k) on a BEV, period; I, for one, don't want to buy a BEV only for local commuting, and the range anxiety will keep me from getting one anytime soon. I prefer the flexibility of my PHEV.
02-24-2019, 11:57 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
That being said: If you’re gonna work until you drop dead, better to do so in a new Porsche than a Hyundai!
02-25-2019, 12:08 AM
#28
I’d take it a step further, because income is transient. Personally, I would advise against buying a plaything like a Porsche if it’s gonna cost you more than that first decimal point of your net worth. It’s easy to get carried away and fritter away your retirement.
That being said: If you’re gonna work until you drop dead, better to do so in a new Porsche than a Hyundai!
02-25-2019, 04:40 PM
#29
Advanced
I just read something on another site, posted yesterday, that was alarming. He seems to be saying that the 15 March beginning of production (V260), that many of us have on our tracking sheets will be delayed until September! Here is the quote:
"The estimate for the car going back into production... was early 2019, i.e. about now, However, I have recently learned the current outlook is now September 2019! The explanation for this given by my local PC is not only WLTP delays, but also drivetrain issues. He didn't expand on this, and I don't know whether the planned changes to accommodate WLTP are directly linked to the drivetrain issues he alludes to, e.g. if Porsche are looking to switch to bigger battery packs to increase the range for WLTP purposes, will this put the drivetrain under more stress?"
Has anyone else heard anything like this?
Has anyone else heard anything like this?
Last edited by Gmoe01; 02-25-2019 at 04:57 PM.