Nick Murray on every Cayenne option - 1.5 hour video
11-02-2018, 01:31 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Wow. I found that super helpful. I'm not a Porsche expert (yet...?) so the description of many of these options was helpful, especially the alphabet soup of driving/sports enhancements. I get them not necessarily being as important as they would be on a 911, though I'd be curious for his and others' take on their usefulness in, say, a Panamera.
11-02-2018, 07:01 PM
#3
Its a great breakdown but I find Nick very biased when it comes to his opinion and a lot of it is not popular opinion but rather nuanced. These option video breakdowns are great though as I learned quite a bit about some of the options explanations I did not read anywhere else.
11-03-2018, 12:03 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
This long review is of great use to anybody considering buying a Porsche -- whether Cayenne or not -- because so many of these options stretch from model to model. I agree with Nick's comments on most of these options -- most of them are not necessary.
I disagree with him on a couple of items. Regarding the audio system: I had a Panamera with the Bose system, and I special-ordered a new 2018 Panamera with just the base music system. I'm a musician and music fanatic, and quite honestly, the base system is extremely good. This is a car, and as Nick says, you get out on the road and there's road noise and other noise as you drive around; this is not your stereo music system at home. I say "save your money" on this option, as the base system is extremely good; no need even for Bose. The other thing that Nick pushes that I don't like is the automatically dimming mirrors: I'm very happy that Porsche makes this an optional add-on feature, because I dislike it very much; I feel that it makes things too dark in the daytime in your rearview mirrors. If dimming mirrors could be manually controlled by the driver (on/off; amount of dimming), I'd be in favor or them, but letting the car decide when they are dimmed is unsatisfactory to me. I also like that Porsche lets you choose if you want a panoramic roof or not; personally, I don't need one and think that they are less safe and more prone to problems, so let me save my money by not making that standard (thank you, Porsche!).
I would not do without the adaptive cruise control after having experienced it in various rental cars and now in my own Porsche; absurdly expensive in Porsches, yes, but too important from a safety standpoint to not have in any car today, I think. And, I feel that the blind-spot assist lights on the outdoor mirrors are important to have; shame on Porsche again for making this an expensive add-on, but I guess that they are trying to keep the base price down. I also have the night-vision infrared camera, and I find it immensely useful for the night driving I do in urban areas with lots of pedestrians and bicyclists, in which I can see them pop out in bright yellow outlines long before I can see them down the street with my headlights (or with the help of streetlights).
Finally, I like that Porsche makes so many things optional (and wish it would make more things optional, like controlling when your headlights are on or not, which you can no longer do) -- their problem is making the options so dang expensive. But I wish that all car dealers would let you pick and choose so many options: have cheap standard base cars and then charge extra amounts for tons of add-ons at a rate that makes it worthwhile for the manufacturer. I do hope that the new Cayennes and Macans will continue to allow the driver to permanently disable the auto-start/stop-engine function and also the auto-door-locking-when-starting-to-move function (both features that are very annoying to many drivers in other brands, but which Porsche has allowed the driver to control in the recent past). Auto-start/stop really belongs only on hybrids, not ICE-only vehicles, though I understand that manufacturers put this into vehicles routinely today because they are trying to meet governmental emissions goals in their fleet.
But for anybody who has spent hours poring over the Porsche Configurator, trying to build their own Porsches, this video is a huge help. Most of what Nick says is spot-on, in terms of stuff that really is needless and a waste of money.
I disagree with him on a couple of items. Regarding the audio system: I had a Panamera with the Bose system, and I special-ordered a new 2018 Panamera with just the base music system. I'm a musician and music fanatic, and quite honestly, the base system is extremely good. This is a car, and as Nick says, you get out on the road and there's road noise and other noise as you drive around; this is not your stereo music system at home. I say "save your money" on this option, as the base system is extremely good; no need even for Bose. The other thing that Nick pushes that I don't like is the automatically dimming mirrors: I'm very happy that Porsche makes this an optional add-on feature, because I dislike it very much; I feel that it makes things too dark in the daytime in your rearview mirrors. If dimming mirrors could be manually controlled by the driver (on/off; amount of dimming), I'd be in favor or them, but letting the car decide when they are dimmed is unsatisfactory to me. I also like that Porsche lets you choose if you want a panoramic roof or not; personally, I don't need one and think that they are less safe and more prone to problems, so let me save my money by not making that standard (thank you, Porsche!).
I would not do without the adaptive cruise control after having experienced it in various rental cars and now in my own Porsche; absurdly expensive in Porsches, yes, but too important from a safety standpoint to not have in any car today, I think. And, I feel that the blind-spot assist lights on the outdoor mirrors are important to have; shame on Porsche again for making this an expensive add-on, but I guess that they are trying to keep the base price down. I also have the night-vision infrared camera, and I find it immensely useful for the night driving I do in urban areas with lots of pedestrians and bicyclists, in which I can see them pop out in bright yellow outlines long before I can see them down the street with my headlights (or with the help of streetlights).
Finally, I like that Porsche makes so many things optional (and wish it would make more things optional, like controlling when your headlights are on or not, which you can no longer do) -- their problem is making the options so dang expensive. But I wish that all car dealers would let you pick and choose so many options: have cheap standard base cars and then charge extra amounts for tons of add-ons at a rate that makes it worthwhile for the manufacturer. I do hope that the new Cayennes and Macans will continue to allow the driver to permanently disable the auto-start/stop-engine function and also the auto-door-locking-when-starting-to-move function (both features that are very annoying to many drivers in other brands, but which Porsche has allowed the driver to control in the recent past). Auto-start/stop really belongs only on hybrids, not ICE-only vehicles, though I understand that manufacturers put this into vehicles routinely today because they are trying to meet governmental emissions goals in their fleet.
But for anybody who has spent hours poring over the Porsche Configurator, trying to build their own Porsches, this video is a huge help. Most of what Nick says is spot-on, in terms of stuff that really is needless and a waste of money.
Last edited by cometguy; 11-06-2018 at 01:58 PM.
11-04-2018, 10:40 PM
#5
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It's a good idea to make such a video, and I learned some things even though I've done my research and bought Porsches before. But he is not correct on how some of the things work, particularly about performance features, which makes me doubt the thoroughness & accuracy of the rest.
11-05-2018, 10:16 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
It's a good idea to make such a video, and I learned some things even though I've done my research and bought Porsches before. But he is not correct on how some of the things work, particularly about performance features, which makes me doubt the thoroughness & accuracy of the rest.
11-05-2018, 01:41 PM
#7
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1) active suspension is not working by ONLY allowing you to change between 3 modes (Comfort, Normal and Sport) but it also changes dampening characteristics as you drive - specifically, more relaxed as you drive straight and more composed in curves or during dynamic loading. So you are using it not when just playing with the switch but every time you drive, and the switch is probably the least important part of that feature.
2) rear wheel steering is most beneficial not just for shorter parking radius (which by the way is a big deal not just for u-turns - getting into a tight spot in a garage is easier too), but the biggest benefit is from the wheels steering into the turn when driving at speed. This is necessary for stability and is accomplished even on cars without RWS but in a passive way from bushings in the suspension deflecting when the car leans. So basically, front wheels turn, the car leans, rear wheels turn as a result. That has two issues 1) time delay, especially big for cars that lean a lot (e.g., an SUV); 2) some slop and flex in suspension is necessary for this to work, leading to less sharp feel, uneven tire wear etc. And that time delay in rear wheels following front wheels is bad in general but is really ugly when you turn one way and then another way quickly, like when changing lane to avoid hitting an animal or rear-ending another car - when you switch direction, the rear wheel are still pointed the wrong way, leading to major instability. RWS fixes all that - sloppiness in suspension and lag for passive rear steering.
3) PDCC (anti-lean) - he described well how it works, but the comment about people getting nauseous is the other way around in my experience and from the research I've seen. In my experience - I drive to Whistler to ski every weekend in winter with two kids and a wife, and in my Cayenne with PDCC everyone is fine. In loaner Cayenne without PDCC one kid throws up or asks to slow down. In a rental Grand Caravan, one kid and wife threw up. In a rental A4, one kid asked to slow down. All in all, with PDCC I get to the sloped 10-15 mins faster with no one yelling at me. Also, Mercedes made its new SUV lean the other way in turns, like a motorbike, and one of the reasons they did it was to reduce motion sickness. Less lean to the outside (or even lean inside) of the turn means less shift to G-forces, thus feels as if you are cornering at lower speed, reducing motion sickness.
Some others I'm too lazy to type up
Also, he mentions matrix headlights disabled in the USA, which is correct, but NHTSA actually allowed then a month ago (pending public consultation), so there is hope that they will get enabled by a software update in current cars or at least in new cars shortly (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1ML2UW ). So while he is correct, he did not bring up this relevant bit.
But I completely agree with him that the Cayenne is good even without most of these and other options.
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11-05-2018, 02:16 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Some examples -
1) active suspension is not working by ONLY allowing you to change between 3 modes (Comfort, Normal and Sport) but it also changes dampening characteristics as you drive - specifically, more relaxed as you drive straight and more composed in curves or during dynamic loading. So you are using it not when just playing with the switch but every time you drive, and the switch is probably the least important part of that feature.
2) rear wheel steering is most beneficial not just for shorter parking radius (which by the way is a big deal not just for u-turns - getting into a tight spot in a garage is easier too), but the biggest benefit is from the wheels steering into the turn when driving at speed. This is necessary for stability and is accomplished even on cars without RWS but in a passive way from bushings in the suspension deflecting when the car leans. So basically, front wheels turn, the car leans, rear wheels turn as a result. That has two issues 1) time delay, especially big for cars that lean a lot (e.g., an SUV); 2) some slop and flex in suspension is necessary for this to work, leading to less sharp feel, uneven tire wear etc. And that time delay in rear wheels following front wheels is bad in general but is really ugly when you turn one way and then another way quickly, like when changing lane to avoid hitting an animal or rear-ending another car - when you switch direction, the rear wheel are still pointed the wrong way, leading to major instability. RWS fixes all that - sloppiness in suspension and lag for passive rear steering.
3) PDCC (anti-lean) - he described well how it works, but the comment about people getting nauseous is the other way around in my experience and from the research I've seen. In my experience - I drive to Whistler to ski every weekend in winter with two kids and a wife, and in my Cayenne with PDCC everyone is fine. In loaner Cayenne without PDCC one kid throws up or asks to slow down. In a rental Grand Caravan, one kid and wife threw up. In a rental A4, one kid asked to slow down. All in all, with PDCC I get to the sloped 10-15 mins faster with no one yelling at me. Also, Mercedes made its new SUV lean the other way in turns, like a motorbike, and one of the reasons they did it was to reduce motion sickness. Less lean to the outside (or even lean inside) of the turn means less shift to G-forces, thus feels as if you are cornering at lower speed, reducing motion sickness.
Some others I'm too lazy to type up
Also, he mentions matrix headlights disabled in the USA, which is correct, but NHTSA actually allowed then a month ago (pending public consultation), so there is hope that they will get enabled by a software update in current cars or at least in new cars shortly (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1ML2UW ). So while he is correct, he did not bring up this relevant bit.
But I completely agree with him that the Cayenne is good even without most of these and other options.
1) active suspension is not working by ONLY allowing you to change between 3 modes (Comfort, Normal and Sport) but it also changes dampening characteristics as you drive - specifically, more relaxed as you drive straight and more composed in curves or during dynamic loading. So you are using it not when just playing with the switch but every time you drive, and the switch is probably the least important part of that feature.
2) rear wheel steering is most beneficial not just for shorter parking radius (which by the way is a big deal not just for u-turns - getting into a tight spot in a garage is easier too), but the biggest benefit is from the wheels steering into the turn when driving at speed. This is necessary for stability and is accomplished even on cars without RWS but in a passive way from bushings in the suspension deflecting when the car leans. So basically, front wheels turn, the car leans, rear wheels turn as a result. That has two issues 1) time delay, especially big for cars that lean a lot (e.g., an SUV); 2) some slop and flex in suspension is necessary for this to work, leading to less sharp feel, uneven tire wear etc. And that time delay in rear wheels following front wheels is bad in general but is really ugly when you turn one way and then another way quickly, like when changing lane to avoid hitting an animal or rear-ending another car - when you switch direction, the rear wheel are still pointed the wrong way, leading to major instability. RWS fixes all that - sloppiness in suspension and lag for passive rear steering.
3) PDCC (anti-lean) - he described well how it works, but the comment about people getting nauseous is the other way around in my experience and from the research I've seen. In my experience - I drive to Whistler to ski every weekend in winter with two kids and a wife, and in my Cayenne with PDCC everyone is fine. In loaner Cayenne without PDCC one kid throws up or asks to slow down. In a rental Grand Caravan, one kid and wife threw up. In a rental A4, one kid asked to slow down. All in all, with PDCC I get to the sloped 10-15 mins faster with no one yelling at me. Also, Mercedes made its new SUV lean the other way in turns, like a motorbike, and one of the reasons they did it was to reduce motion sickness. Less lean to the outside (or even lean inside) of the turn means less shift to G-forces, thus feels as if you are cornering at lower speed, reducing motion sickness.
Some others I'm too lazy to type up
Also, he mentions matrix headlights disabled in the USA, which is correct, but NHTSA actually allowed then a month ago (pending public consultation), so there is hope that they will get enabled by a software update in current cars or at least in new cars shortly (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1ML2UW ). So while he is correct, he did not bring up this relevant bit.
But I completely agree with him that the Cayenne is good even without most of these and other options.
11-05-2018, 02:37 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
I doubt you'd really need any of those things that MaxLTV mentions -- that was the point about Nick's video: the vast majority of things that Porsche offers as options are simply unnecessary. The standard features in most Porsches today are sufficient, save for a few safety features like ACC and LCA that should be standard and are not in such an expensive vehicle.
11-05-2018, 04:35 PM
#10
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I doubt you'd really need any of those things that MaxLTV mentions -- that was the point about Nick's video: the vast majority of things that Porsche offers as options are simply unnecessary. The standard features in most Porsches today are sufficient, save for a few safety features like ACC and LCA that should be standard and are not in such an expensive vehicle.
.
11-06-2018, 12:16 PM
#11
I previously watched this video all the way through. Because I'm me, I rewatched the sections that MaxLTV made comments about. I'm not interested in being a Nick Murray apologist but I disagree with the assertion he's providing inaccurate information. It's fine and dandy to not agree with Nick's opinion, but that doesn't make him wrong.
PASM: I don't think Nick was implying that PASM is only driver controlled. The graphic he shows states that PASM "actively and continuously regulates damping force", so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of doubt. Rather I think his point was it's a feature that most will play with the manual settings once and never bother with again. His opinion is PASM only gives a harsher ride and is of little benefit on the Cayenne.
RWS: Nick does a nice job explaining the function of both high- and low-speed rear steering. He doesn't think it's a worthwhile option. While MaxLTV provides some excellent details about the features and differences of rear steering, it doesn't mean Nick's opinion is wrong.
PDCC: In Nick's experience, PDCC can make people carsick. MaxLTV had a different experience. I don't see how that different experience makes Nick's less valid.
PASM: I don't think Nick was implying that PASM is only driver controlled. The graphic he shows states that PASM "actively and continuously regulates damping force", so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of doubt. Rather I think his point was it's a feature that most will play with the manual settings once and never bother with again. His opinion is PASM only gives a harsher ride and is of little benefit on the Cayenne.
RWS: Nick does a nice job explaining the function of both high- and low-speed rear steering. He doesn't think it's a worthwhile option. While MaxLTV provides some excellent details about the features and differences of rear steering, it doesn't mean Nick's opinion is wrong.
PDCC: In Nick's experience, PDCC can make people carsick. MaxLTV had a different experience. I don't see how that different experience makes Nick's less valid.
11-06-2018, 01:39 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
I previously watched this video all the way through. Because I'm me, I rewatched the sections that MaxLTV made comments about. I'm not interested in being a Nick Murray apologist but I disagree with the assertion he's providing inaccurate information. It's fine and dandy to not agree with Nick's opinion, but that doesn't make him wrong.
PASM: I don't think Nick was implying that PASM is only driver controlled. The graphic he shows states that PASM "actively and continuously regulates damping force", so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of doubt. Rather I think his point was it's a feature that most will play with the manual settings once and never bother with again. His opinion is PASM only gives a harsher ride and is of little benefit on the Cayenne.
RWS: Nick does a nice job explaining the function of both high- and low-speed rear steering. He doesn't think it's a worthwhile option. While MaxLTV provides some excellent details about the features and differences of rear steering, it doesn't mean Nick's opinion is wrong.
PDCC: In Nick's experience, PDCC can make people carsick. MaxLTV had a different experience. I don't see how that different experience makes Nick's less valid.
PASM: I don't think Nick was implying that PASM is only driver controlled. The graphic he shows states that PASM "actively and continuously regulates damping force", so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of doubt. Rather I think his point was it's a feature that most will play with the manual settings once and never bother with again. His opinion is PASM only gives a harsher ride and is of little benefit on the Cayenne.
RWS: Nick does a nice job explaining the function of both high- and low-speed rear steering. He doesn't think it's a worthwhile option. While MaxLTV provides some excellent details about the features and differences of rear steering, it doesn't mean Nick's opinion is wrong.
PDCC: In Nick's experience, PDCC can make people carsick. MaxLTV had a different experience. I don't see how that different experience makes Nick's less valid.
Knowing myself, my biggest problem is that I want both strong performance *and* the visual goodies! Combined, they can get awfully pricey.
11-06-2018, 02:05 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
I have a 2018 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid, and I'd not even consider another version of Panamera now (having owned a non-hybrid Panamera previously and loved it also) -- the E-Hybrid tech is that good, and that fun, and that powerful. And, I'd not consider any Cayenne other than the new 2019 E-Hybrid, having experienced the 2018 Panamera E-Hybrid for half a year now. Would never consider an ICE-only Cayenne or Panamera again -- the new-generation E-Hybrids are that good (the old-gen S E-Hybrids were not very good). Superb acceleration from zero or low speeds, and gives you great options as a driver (I can go roundtrip to work, 26 miles, in all-electric mode, and when I'm not travelling out of town, I'm going 1000-1200 miles on one tank of gas). I'm debating between the new-gen 2019 Cayenne E-Hybrid and the new-styled 2019 Macan, simply because I think the Cayenne might be too large for me... But since the Macan doesn't yet come in E-Hybrid form, I'm torn between getting the Cayenne E-Hybrid (which I know will be awesome) and an ICE-only Macan (which is more nimble, and more the size I'd prefer to have). It would be a step down for me to go back to an ICE-only Porsche now...
11-06-2018, 02:23 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
You mentioned Panamera earlier. I'm interested in performance also, but don't need to add lots of extra options to get that in Cayennes or Panameras, personally.
I have a 2018 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid, and I'd not even consider another version of Panamera now (having owned a non-hybrid Panamera previously and loved it also) -- the E-Hybrid tech is that good, and that fun, and that powerful. And, I'd not consider any Cayenne other than the new 2019 E-Hybrid, having experienced the 2018 Panamera E-Hybrid for half a year now. Would never consider an ICE-only Cayenne or Panamera again -- the new-generation E-Hybrids are that good (the old-gen S E-Hybrids were not very good). Superb acceleration from zero or low speeds, and gives you great options as a driver (I can go roundtrip to work, 26 miles, in all-electric mode, and when I'm not travelling out of town, I'm going 1000-1200 miles on one tank of gas). I'm debating between the new-gen 2019 Cayenne E-Hybrid and the new-styled 2019 Macan, simply because I think the Cayenne might be too large for me... But since the Macan doesn't yet come in E-Hybrid form, I'm torn between getting the Cayenne E-Hybrid (which I know will be awesome) and an ICE-only Macan (which is more nimble, and more the size I'd prefer to have). It would be a step down for me to go back to an ICE-only Porsche now...
I have a 2018 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid, and I'd not even consider another version of Panamera now (having owned a non-hybrid Panamera previously and loved it also) -- the E-Hybrid tech is that good, and that fun, and that powerful. And, I'd not consider any Cayenne other than the new 2019 E-Hybrid, having experienced the 2018 Panamera E-Hybrid for half a year now. Would never consider an ICE-only Cayenne or Panamera again -- the new-generation E-Hybrids are that good (the old-gen S E-Hybrids were not very good). Superb acceleration from zero or low speeds, and gives you great options as a driver (I can go roundtrip to work, 26 miles, in all-electric mode, and when I'm not travelling out of town, I'm going 1000-1200 miles on one tank of gas). I'm debating between the new-gen 2019 Cayenne E-Hybrid and the new-styled 2019 Macan, simply because I think the Cayenne might be too large for me... But since the Macan doesn't yet come in E-Hybrid form, I'm torn between getting the Cayenne E-Hybrid (which I know will be awesome) and an ICE-only Macan (which is more nimble, and more the size I'd prefer to have). It would be a step down for me to go back to an ICE-only Porsche now...
I have been leaning Panamera Sport Turismo, partly because I absolutely loves the way it looks. It's also not something you see every day (unlike the Cayenne...) which I appreciate.
BUT! Even in base trim the Panny ST gets very expensive very quickly, which has pushed me somewhat back in the direction of a Cayenne, which is more functional in any case. Choices are a heavily optioned base or a lightly optioned E-hybrid. Truth be told I have a very hard time lightly spec'ing any build! I also found a very lightly used 2018 Panny 4S ST...$130k MSRP, $115k ask, dealer car, so there may be room to get that price down a little further. My Cayenne E-Hybrid build if I ticked every box I legit wanted was $116k which seems ludicrous!
Not sure which direction I'll end up, but, it's going to hurt regardless. The other issue I'm facing is getting out of my current lease. The MFR's financial service arm does not allow lease transfers at all. So my only choice is to buy it out and sell it at a loss, making the leap to Porsche that much more of a stretch. (Or I could wait the 2 years for my lease to end, but who wants to do that???)
11-06-2018, 02:33 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Totally get it - everything about the E-Hybrid seems great.
I have been leaning Panamera Sport Turismo, partly because I absolutely loves the way it looks. It's also not something you see every day (unlike the Cayenne...) which I appreciate.
BUT! Even in base trim the Panny ST gets very expensive very quickly, which has pushed me somewhat back in the direction of a Cayenne, which is more functional in any case. Choices are a heavily optioned base or a lightly optioned E-hybrid. Truth be told I have a very hard time lightly spec'ing any build! I also found a very lightly used 2018 Panny 4S ST...$130k MSRP, $115k ask, dealer car, so there may be room to get that price down a little further. My Cayenne E-Hybrid build if I ticked every box I legit wanted was $116k which seems ludicrous!
Not sure which direction I'll end up, but, it's going to hurt regardless. The other issue I'm facing is getting out of my current lease. The MFR's financial service arm does not allow lease transfers at all. So my only choice is to buy it out and sell it at a loss, making the leap to Porsche that much more of a stretch. (Or I could wait the 2 years for my lease to end, but who wants to do that???)
I have been leaning Panamera Sport Turismo, partly because I absolutely loves the way it looks. It's also not something you see every day (unlike the Cayenne...) which I appreciate.
BUT! Even in base trim the Panny ST gets very expensive very quickly, which has pushed me somewhat back in the direction of a Cayenne, which is more functional in any case. Choices are a heavily optioned base or a lightly optioned E-hybrid. Truth be told I have a very hard time lightly spec'ing any build! I also found a very lightly used 2018 Panny 4S ST...$130k MSRP, $115k ask, dealer car, so there may be room to get that price down a little further. My Cayenne E-Hybrid build if I ticked every box I legit wanted was $116k which seems ludicrous!
Not sure which direction I'll end up, but, it's going to hurt regardless. The other issue I'm facing is getting out of my current lease. The MFR's financial service arm does not allow lease transfers at all. So my only choice is to buy it out and sell it at a loss, making the leap to Porsche that much more of a stretch. (Or I could wait the 2 years for my lease to end, but who wants to do that???)