When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
My SA told me today, just four days before our Turbo’s U.S. lock date, that PCNA issued an email advising all dealers of an immediate 16-week delay on PSCB-equipped Cayennes due to “supply issues.” That pushes my wife’s car from late November to late March, at the earliest.
So, the options for a Turbo are 1) wait or 2) stick the PCCBs on there. He also noted with some humor that a follow-up email from PCNA told its dealers to advise customers to undertake option (2) — what a surprise at $5600. However, the email also indicated we should hurry, as there are “anticipated shortages” of PCCB.
You can’t make this stuff up.
Opinions on PCCB? I know all about the maintenance cost should you need to replace the rotors. But what about day-to-day use? What are they like in cold weather? Rain? Do I need to concern myself with an errant rock or pebble damaging a rotor and causing a large replacement bill? Do they squeak incessantly? (We can take the noise, if it’s not ALL. THE. TIME.)
Any input would be appreciated. We’re leaning toward slapping on the PCCBs and not looking back.
The PSCB aren’t supposed to have dust either, so why pay $6k for PCCB unless you can’t wait? What is the other option since steel isn’t standard anymore? How ridiculous.
Thanks for the input, folks -- especially manouk and TTurbine.
I've done a lot of reading (mostly Rennlist threads) about PCCB, and how it's evolved over the years. The consensus seems to be that nowadays they're great on the street, with rotors that will go 100K-plus miles of drive-it-like-a-Porsche use with regular pad changes. A few posters claim to have over 200K on their factory rotors. One dude claimed 300K and counting. Great stopping power, no fade, cool yellow calipers, etc. That's all fine and good. And the brake pads themselves are reasonable at ~$300 per axle. We're now getting into the third generation (I hope I've got that right) of PCCB, so many of the early bugs have been squashed. This is the good news.
The bad news is that the OEM rotors are still outrageously priced, somewhere between $12K and $20K for a set of four. So if they wear out (tracking seems to kill them pretty quick, a surprise to me) or fail due to physical damage (cracking due to road / gravel impact, for example, or oil absorption), you're on the hook for some serious cash. There are cast iron drop-in replacement rotors for most PCCBs, though. So if you need to refresh your carbon rotors, you can use the same calipers, but install iron rotors and compatible pads at 10 to 20 percent the cost of carbon. (Since PCCB on the E3 Cayenne is a new design, there's no iron stuff yet.)
So that leaves Scott40's question: Why not just wait for the PSCBs? The performance by all accounts is similar. The cost is less (zero dollars), at least up front. And they look really cool -- you get a free mirror inside every wheel.
Well, we're strongly considering going with the PCCBs. We could wait, but a thing that's bugged me since day one is this: PSCBs are baby-fresh new. My SA has tried to get replacement / maintenance costs for PSCB, but PCNA is mum. He has no idea if a full set of PSCB rotors will be $20K (unlikely), $10K (possible) or $8K (probable). Pads could be $300 a set, less, or far more -- they're new and voodoo too. Porsche touts they last 30 percent longer than cast iron. Do they mean the pads? Rotors? Both? If it's just the pads, who cares? That's probably going to be a minimal cost compared to the rotors. And if the rotors last 30 percent longer, maybe they'll last 80K miles or so, then need a full replacement (they cannot be turned -- the tungsten carbide layer wears away; you're on the hook for a new rotor when it's gone, just like you can't turn a carbon rotor).
What I'm running through my mind is this: While maintenance costs for PSCB will be less than PCCB, they won't be anywhere near as "cheap" as Porsche cast iron, which you can't get on a Turbo anyway -- only the standard Cayenne, S, and E-Hybrid. Add in the fact that this is PSCB Generation 1, and I have to believe there will be teething problems (or worse) with them. So it could be that PCCB in this situation isn't the ridiculous idea I thought it was a few days ago, especially if the carbon rotors really do last 100K miles or more. Our Turbo will be gone at 50K to 60K miles.
Or maybe all I'm doing is trying to justify dropping $6K on yellow calipers, and way more stopping power than we'll ever need. Then again, who needs a $150K SUV that runs to 60 in less than four seconds? So the "too much" argument is pretty specious in the first place. We should just buy a Camry and be done with it.
Actually, the maintenance cost of PCCB is lower, not higher, than with iron brakes because you do not need to replace rotors ever, unless they get damaged, and pads last quite a while too. No one in their right mind should be using Cayenne as a regular track day car, and outside of the track PCCB rotors last virtually forever. PCCBs are awesome in every other way too, except if they get damaged and you need to replace them. I don't know how easy or hard it is to damage them, but it was the only reason for me not to get them in the first place. But now if that causes much of a delay to the car, I might just go with PCCB.
1- maybe other options will be available
2- I want to enjoy my current Cayenne
3- it's new Brake and as Porsche said it has the ability of PCCB and live longer than the regular old brake
4-it's cheaper
5-I don't like Bananas in my tires ;p " just kidding"
I spoke with my service advisor today. All early orders will be delivered on time with PSCB. My turbo is in preproduction and will be on time in December. If your order hasn’t locked yet you will definitely have a delay
So what is the story with any issues that I’ve heard regarding ceramic brake squeal and lack luster performance until the ceramic rotors heat up. Is this an issue with PCCB or a thing of the past. Personally, if the car wasn’t replacing another car I would wait. If I needed it on time I would go for the PCCB and see the the dealer will cut you a little break on the cost of the PCCB.
I have no performance issues or squeal on my 911 Turbo S with ceramics. Brake feel is awesome, better than GT3 with iron rotors in terms of consistency (although Turbo's brakes are overly assisted, regardless of the rotor choice, but that's a separate factor). I wonder how easy or hard they are to damage, though. I do take my Cayenne on soft roads, sand beaches etc., so resistance to damage is a concern.
Actually, the maintenance cost of PCCB is lower, not higher, than with iron brakes because you do not need to replace rotors ever, unless they get damaged...
Not sure about the “ever” part, but thanks for pointing out and reiterating what I’ve read about the life of those rotors when used in reasonable daily driving. Pads and fluid changes are the only routine maintenance items, I’ve read, with PCCB for 100K or more miles.
Originally Posted by Fixinbones
All early orders will be delivered on time with PSCB. My turbo is in preproduction and will be on time in December.
We’d been on our dealer’s waitlist for a year, and submitted our build the same day our slot way at the top of that list opened up. I guess I didn’t slip my $20 to the right person. Well done, sir.
Our dealer offered a price break on the PCCBs if we chose to swap. Our SA was very kind and apologetic.
Originally Posted by MaxLTV
I wonder how easy or hard they are to damage, though. I do take my Cayenne on soft roads, sand beaches etc...
That’s the only real concern I have right now. I couldn’t find any posts or threads about damaged rotors from normal use. All were track-related from too many laps, or trips into the gravel pit.
FWIW, we’ve decided to go PCCB. And I’m kind of jazzed. This is one more hypercar feature I figured I’d never own. When we decided to move from the S to the Turbo, we told each other we were going big. And if you’re going big, you may as well go large.
Not sure about the “ever” part, but thanks for pointing out and reiterating what I’ve read about the life of those rotors when used in reasonable daily driving. Pads and fluid changes are the only routine maintenance items, I’ve read, with PCCB for 100K or more miles.
We’d been on our dealer’s waitlist for a year, and submitted our build the same day our slot way at the top of that list opened up. I guess I didn’t slip my $20 to the right person. Well done, sir.
Our dealer offered a price break on the PCCBs if we chose to swap. Our SA was very kind and apologetic.
That’s the only real concern I have right now. I couldn’t find any posts or threads about damaged rotors from normal use. All were track-related from too many laps, or trips into the gravel pit.
FWIW, we’ve decided to go PCCB. And I’m kind of jazzed. This is one more hypercar feature I figured I’d never own. When we decided to move from the S to the Turbo, we told each other we were going big. And if you’re going big, you may as well go large.
you made the right choice, hope you ticked the rear axle steering box too
I changed to PCCB since I can't wait as my current lease (X5M) ends in early Jan. $6000 is a big add but if I extended my lease (not sure BMW would do it since I am not buying another BMW) I would spend more than the $6K anyways. I'm also kinda of excited to have them.
08-13-2018, 10:26 PM
PSCB delay / PCCB opinion
