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I'd love to see that too - since as far as anyone has found - there is no part# for the bolts, only the adjusters as a unit. It's assembled by an outside company (Hydraulik-Gear) for Porsche. Porsche doesn't make these parts themselves. They just bolt them into the engine. WC-22 has the dealer replacing the entire set of adjusters.
I was just over to the dealer to pickup my CTT from the CEL fuel vapor purge valve replacement, and Transfer Case replacement,... & when they drove it up it had a screw in the rr tire (low by 15lbs notice on my dash). Needless to say they are replacing the tire on their dime, but I'm still in the loaner.
Anyway, the SA had a little baggie at his desk with a screw from WC-22, that as it turns out is not one of the adjustor bolts. They wanted to see what this different screw was, since it listed in WC-22 that it was aluminum. Anyway, sorry Don, but they did not get the whole adjustor kit (as you said) that includes the bolts. Bummer because I really wanted to take a picture of it & post it here.
But what is most interesting to me, is that upon closer inspection of the adjustor bolts (by the Lead Technician at my dealer,... who did his inspection of my bolts as a favor to me) in my JUNE 2012 CTT build, is that they still look, feel & act like aluminum. They are not blackish in color, but more aluminum looking, AND they do not have the center pin visible within the torx bolt head. But our small magnet had trouble sticking to it. Kept getting pulled to the side to stick to the steel sprocket.
Could outside company (Hydraulik-Gear) have started making the new bolts out of a new composition of aluminum (stronger, but still aluminum)?
Your AWD, torque vectoring, PSM and all that good stuff is affected by differences in tire diameter. Make sure the dealer measures the tread thickness difference between the new and old tires. I don't have spec handy but your dealer knows. If the tread thickness difference is too great they will need to buy 4 new tires for you.
But what is most interesting to me, is that upon closer inspection of the adjustor bolts (by the Lead Technician at my dealer,... who did his inspection of my bolts as a favor to me) in my JUNE 2012 CTT build, is that they still look, feel & act like aluminum. They are not blackish in color, but more aluminum looking, AND they do not have the center pin visible within the torx bolt head. But our small magnet had trouble sticking to it. Kept getting pulled to the side to stick to the steel sprocket.
Could outside company (Hydraulik-Gear) have started making the new bolts out of a new composition of aluminum (stronger, but still aluminum)?
=Steve
This is one of the reasons I hate having multiple forums discussing the same issue.. the composition of the new bolts was discussed at some length on 6speedonline..
Quick Summary: The new bolts are non-magnetic. What they are is yet to be determined - they may be a stronger aluminum alloy, or they may be titanium. We would need one of them to find out by having it tested - but buying an adjuster just to get the bolt out of it for testing seems a bit excessive.
What is known - there are NO reports of adjusters with the new bolts failing. So that's a good thing.
Your AWD, torque vectoring, PSM and all that good stuff is affected by differences in tire diameter. Make sure the dealer measures the tread thickness difference between the new and old tires. I don't have spec handy but your dealer knows. If the tread thickness difference is too great they will need to buy 4 new tires for you.
+1 on this. Or they will have to get the new tire "shaved" so the tread depth is the same as the old ones. TireRack offers that service for exactly this reason - it's around $25/tire.
I was just over to the dealer to pickup my CTT from the CEL fuel vapor purge valve replacement, and Transfer Case replacement,... & when they drove it up it had a screw in the rr tire (low by 15lbs notice on my dash). Needless to say they are replacing the tire on their dime, but I'm still in the loaner.
Anyway, the SA had a little baggie at his desk with a screw from WC-22, that as it turns out is not one of the adjustor bolts. They wanted to see what this different screw was, since it listed in WC-22 that it was aluminum. Anyway, sorry Don, but they did not get the whole adjustor kit (as you said) that includes the bolts. Bummer because I really wanted to take a picture of it & post it here.
But what is most interesting to me, is that upon closer inspection of the adjustor bolts (by the Lead Technician at my dealer,... who did his inspection of my bolts as a favor to me) in my JUNE 2012 CTT build, is that they still look, feel & act like aluminum. They are not blackish in color, but more aluminum looking, AND they do not have the center pin visible within the torx bolt head. But our small magnet had trouble sticking to it. Kept getting pulled to the side to stick to the steel sprocket.
Could outside company (Hydraulik-Gear) have started making the new bolts out of a new composition of aluminum (stronger, but still aluminum)?
=Steve
Interesting, I have one of the bolts here on my desk, I have not photo or posted it, I'm gathering as much info as possible right now, this will be my documented project.
I plan on keeping the motor for a while, heck maybe I'll start showing up at Porsche events to showcase my pretty blow motor and have flyers to pass out...
Interesting, I have one of the bolts here on my desk, I have not photo or posted it, I'm gathering as much info as possible right now, this will be my documented project.
The old bolts aren't the question really - we know they aren't strong enough.
The question is what material are the new bolts made from? And if it would be possible to second-source them and replace them in the existing VarioCam adjusters?
Two schools of thought on this:
> BMW issued a recall for the engines they made with the faulty bolts, and the recall was a process for the dealer mechanic to remove and replace JUST the bolts.
> PORSCHE issued a workshop campaign (WC-22) for the engines they made with the faulty bolts (the engines they decided had them - obviously not all of the defective engines) and they have the mechanic replace the entire assembly.
On SixSpeedOnline - people have looked into finding replacement bolts, or sourcing custom bolts as replacements. No luck so far in finding direct replacements (the bolts are a bit unique in shoulder size, unthreaded shaft length and overall length.) It doesn't appear the BMW replacement bolts can be used in our adjusters - there is a difference in the dimensions.
My experience trying to remove one of the bolts from my old adjusters was not a positive one. Another chap bought a brand-new Snap-On #50 (or 55? I'd have to look) Torx security bit and was successful. My bit was also brand new, and not a discount brand - but it appears there may be a reason Snap-On ones are actually worth more money. It worked and mine "cammed out" of the Torx recess.
Anything you can add to this would be welcome.. I'd suggest it be added to the 6speedonline thread since that one is more complete than here.
Well, I went ahead and purchased a second motor so I can do my own digging... I wanted to ability to do some digging on my own, material inspection etc. I know it's a huge expense but I wanted to get down to the brass-taxes, I mean if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it right...
I will be sending out parts to be tested in addition I may look into the replacement parts being offered I may even look into having replacement kits offered to those who might not have to order $1,400 kits for a few bolts that can be had that are stronger and for much less... We are a community and need to help each other out so if we can offer a solution that can save Porsche owners over $1,000 to perform a correction, who knows maybe we can even sell these kits to Porsche so the "campaign" will only cost them a fraction of what they are currently going for.
I also received an Email from Kerry West today, I replied and I will see what sort of solution will be offered on this if any but again I will keep you all posted as this unfolds.
Well, I went ahead and purchased a second motor so I can do my own digging... I wanted to ability to do some digging on my own, material inspection etc. I know it's a huge expense but I wanted to get down to the brass-taxes, I mean if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it right...
I will be sending out parts to be tested in addition I may look into the replacement parts being offered I may even look into having replacement kits offered to those who might not have to order $1,400 kits for a few bolts that can be had that are stronger and for much less... We are a community and need to help each other out so if we can offer a solution that can save Porsche owners over $1,000 to perform a correction, who knows maybe we can even sell these kits to Porsche so the "campaign" will only cost them a fraction of what they are currently going for.
I also received an Email from Kerry West today, I replied and I will see what sort of solution will be offered on this if any but again I will keep you all posted as this unfolds.
Have a happy Easter weekend everyone!
Why do you mean by "Brass Taxes"? Is it a play on words since it's April?
Your AWD, torque vectoring, PSM and all that good stuff is affected by differences in tire diameter. Make sure the dealer measures the tread thickness difference between the new and old tires. I don't have spec handy but your dealer knows. If the tread thickness difference is too great they will need to buy 4 new tires for you.
Originally Posted by deilenberger
+1 on this. Or they will have to get the new tire "shaved" so the tread depth is the same as the old ones. TireRack offers that service for exactly this reason - it's around $25/tire.
Thanks guys. Yes, they measured tread depth immediately on-the-spot, before I even left. That was the first thing they did once they found the screw lodged in the tire. Good thing is that ALL my tires were new. So the new one they put on will be right in line.
Sorry for the side-bar,... but I'm fine there.
Originally Posted by deilenberger
This is one of the reasons I hate having multiple forums discussing the same issue.. the composition of the new bolts was discussed at some length on 6speedonline..
Quick Summary: The new bolts are non-magnetic. What they are is yet to be determined - they may be a stronger aluminum alloy, or they may be titanium. We would need one of them to find out by having it tested - but buying an adjuster just to get the bolt out of it for testing seems a bit excessive.
What is known - there are NO reports of adjusters with the new bolts failing. So that's a good thing.
Sorry Don. I apologize for not catching this over on 6Speed. I have been over there so many times & have jumped around so much,.. so I missed this fact about the new bolts not being steel. SORRY. But THANK YOU for re-clarifying. I know it's a pain, but you are indeed helping many people out here.
Plus I do not have an account on 6Speeed and don't spend time there. So the repeats here are still good. Thanks for hanging around in both. I am sure you are helping lots of people who only visit one of the forums.
Back to Wheel Dynamics.... It still sucks that you've already experienced the failure. And I really wish your dealership was better at taking care of you. They really need to be the advocate to us as owners. They need to represent you,... otherwise as you've said, it may the be the lawyers who have to step up.
I seem to be fortunate that my dealership is "premier" status, and they go to bat. And have great techs who are happy working there, & don't even mind me walking straight back to the lifts & talking to them about all this.
Oh, & thanks Don, for the advice on getting some German Beer for the guys at my dealership. I bought 2 cases of Hofbräu (Miabock & Dunkel) and dropped them off to the SA's, Parts Dept, & Tech's today. This was my thank you for covering my transfer case 100% while I'm 10 months out of warranty. They went to bat for me, and they definitely enjoyed receiving the beer on a Friday.
=Steve
Last edited by bweSteve; 04-16-2017 at 10:59 AM.
Reason: splchk
I bought 2 cases of Hofbräu (Miabock & Dunkel) and dropped them off to the SA's, Parts Dept, & Tech's today....They went to bat for me, and they definitely enjoyed receiving the beer on a Friday.
=Steve
Uh oh...I wouldn't want to be the owner of the car they worked on next after enjoying said beers....
Okay so I was able to locate the part number for the bolts, just in the event anyone else was interested in this tidbit of information. I should receive them sometime this week and I will them post photos of the parts compared to the old bolts.
Wheel Dynamics, those bolts (99907310301) don't appear to be the ones that are failing. I could be wrong but i think the bad bolts are on the inside of the camshaft adjuster (there are four bolts on each adjuster). The bolts (#13) above have only two bolts per camshaft and are on the "outside".
Wheel Dynamics, those bolts (99907310301) don't appear to be the ones that are failing. I could be wrong but i think the bad bolts are on the inside of the camshaft adjuster (there are four bolts on each adjuster). The bolts (#13) above have only two bolts per camshaft and are on the "outside".
Understand, however I spoke with one of my contacts at PORSCHE who confirmed that the listing on the PET system called for (8) eight pieces in total, I know the PET system can sometimes be a little inaccurate at some level so I'm guessing that these will be showing up in the next couple of days at which time I will compare and confirm.
The bolts appear to be almost custom dimensions - so my WAG - they are made by or for the manufacturer of the camshaft adjuster.
The PET image you're showing is also a bit wrong - it's for the V6 engine. Notice the heads only have 3 spark plug holes? And 3 intake ports. And 3 sets of lobes on the camshafts?
04-14-2017, 05:17 PM
