Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue
01-08-2018, 02:59 PM
#5116
Rennlist Member
Lol like you need to name it :-) I bought 1 car from those guys, won't buy another or service there. Just not at same level of service as Circle or a couple others in the area.
01-08-2018, 03:30 PM
#5117
Rennlist Member
Tried buying a car from them last year, but no discount for me. No problem got 6% off on a new 911 Turbo (special order) just up the 405 -- about a 25 minute drive -- near the Porsche Experience Center -- easy, pleasant transaction. BTW, there is a new Porsche Dealership that just opened in Irvine -- got good reviews on Yelp.
01-08-2018, 03:35 PM
#5118
Banned
It’s understandable from an emission standpoint to get the motor up to temp, but the thing with Diesels is the killer known as “excessive EGT.” Is it worth the reimbursement for a warranty that will expire eventually and then possibly deal with later Turbo and associated issues? I’m inclined to think not. If you read the fine print, all those components are tied into exactly what can and will fail with excessive EGT. And believe me, the EGT’s have changed.
As for worth down the road, as people get the word out and realize the difference (mind you some don’t, but you must admit no two drivers drive alike) between fixed and unfixed, a delta will arise. How much, only a guess. But looking at past platforms of any type and one can surmise it’s a chunky amount. I know some believe that because a difference is out there, one chooses to believe whether it’s apparent or not. I consider that heresy again as every driver is different as well as model to model even within same year (look into model changes during any random year and you’ll find the start of for instance a 12MY will differ subtly at the latter 12MY). My valuation is contrary to most here, but my intentions with the vehicle are also quite a bit different. I’m in it for the long haul as this platform (Drivetrain and Body) is quite robust. Take a look if you have the time between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 3.0L TDi and you’ll realize what I mean. If you think they cheated only for DEF and service intervals, you’re in for quite a revelation.....
As for worth down the road, as people get the word out and realize the difference (mind you some don’t, but you must admit no two drivers drive alike) between fixed and unfixed, a delta will arise. How much, only a guess. But looking at past platforms of any type and one can surmise it’s a chunky amount. I know some believe that because a difference is out there, one chooses to believe whether it’s apparent or not. I consider that heresy again as every driver is different as well as model to model even within same year (look into model changes during any random year and you’ll find the start of for instance a 12MY will differ subtly at the latter 12MY). My valuation is contrary to most here, but my intentions with the vehicle are also quite a bit different. I’m in it for the long haul as this platform (Drivetrain and Body) is quite robust. Take a look if you have the time between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 3.0L TDi and you’ll realize what I mean. If you think they cheated only for DEF and service intervals, you’re in for quite a revelation.....
01-08-2018, 04:58 PM
#5120
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Sword_of_Spirit
It’s understandable from an emission standpoint to get the motor up to temp, but the thing with Diesels is the killer known as “excessive EGT.” Is it worth the reimbursement for a warranty that will expire eventually and then possibly deal with later Turbo and associated issues? I’m inclined to think not. If you read the fine print, all those components are tied into exactly what can and will fail with excessive EGT. And believe me, the EGT’s have changed.
As for worth down the road, as people get the word out and realize the difference (mind you some don’t, but you must admit no two drivers drive alike) between fixed and unfixed, a delta will arise. How much, only a guess. But looking at past platforms of any type and one can surmise it’s a chunky amount. I know some believe that because a difference is out there, one chooses to believe whether it’s apparent or not. I consider that heresy again as every driver is different as well as model to model even within same year (look into model changes during any random year and you’ll find the start of for instance a 12MY will differ subtly at the latter 12MY). My valuation is contrary to most here, but my intentions with the vehicle are also quite a bit different. I’m in it for the long haul as this platform (Drivetrain and Body) is quite robust. Take a look if you have the time between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 3.0L TDi and you’ll realize what I mean. If you think they cheated only for DEF and service intervals, you’re in for quite a revelation.....
As for worth down the road, as people get the word out and realize the difference (mind you some don’t, but you must admit no two drivers drive alike) between fixed and unfixed, a delta will arise. How much, only a guess. But looking at past platforms of any type and one can surmise it’s a chunky amount. I know some believe that because a difference is out there, one chooses to believe whether it’s apparent or not. I consider that heresy again as every driver is different as well as model to model even within same year (look into model changes during any random year and you’ll find the start of for instance a 12MY will differ subtly at the latter 12MY). My valuation is contrary to most here, but my intentions with the vehicle are also quite a bit different. I’m in it for the long haul as this platform (Drivetrain and Body) is quite robust. Take a look if you have the time between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 3.0L TDi and you’ll realize what I mean. If you think they cheated only for DEF and service intervals, you’re in for quite a revelation.....
On another note, I hope people who want to buy a CD do their postings on the main board. There is a thread discussing where inventory is available. As much as I love reading about your search and purchases, I think this thread should continue to be mainly about the issues dealing with the cheating and the fix
01-08-2018, 05:59 PM
#5121
Rennlist Member
Just reviewed all the posts since the fixes began -- took quite a while with all the posts pertaining to purchasing new Cayennes interspersed (it's a stretch to call those posts emission issues), but nevertheless, I conclude that the fix is OK, and probability is high that it will work fine on most 2013's. No doubt, there are problems with some, but they appear to be isolated, but irritating cases -- particularly when it happens to you. At the moment, I intend to have the work done, mainly because my dealer already ordered the parts for my CD; otherwise, I'd wait a year or so. And, if I don't receive a call from the dealer that the parts are in, I will wait. I'll continue monitoring this thread for new information, and may change my mind. Where I live in Southern CA, temps rarely drop below mid 50's, and very low temps tend to be problematic -- don't have that here.
Like many Rennlisters, I do most maintenance on my Porsche's myself, as I am concerned that bad things can happen in the Service Department -- and that may be what's happening to some who are unhappy with the fix. Just a few weeks ago I took my CD to the local dealer to fix (replace) the adblu heater (under warranty) -- did a fine job on that, but ignored the Brake Flush on the work order. Had the Cashier get my service advisor, and he apologized for the oversight -- so we are not working with genius's here.
BTW, I live in Newport Coast next to Newport Beach. Don't want to identify the Dealer by name but it was a very short drive for me.
Like many Rennlisters, I do most maintenance on my Porsche's myself, as I am concerned that bad things can happen in the Service Department -- and that may be what's happening to some who are unhappy with the fix. Just a few weeks ago I took my CD to the local dealer to fix (replace) the adblu heater (under warranty) -- did a fine job on that, but ignored the Brake Flush on the work order. Had the Cashier get my service advisor, and he apologized for the oversight -- so we are not working with genius's here.
BTW, I live in Newport Coast next to Newport Beach. Don't want to identify the Dealer by name but it was a very short drive for me.
The bottom line: my '13 CD is fine post fix! Engine torque and power, fuel mileage, adblue usage, oil usage are all virtually identical to pre-fix (adblue needed only 1/2 gallon to top off and oil consumption was barely 1 segment down from full). The post fix CD extends the 3rd- 4th gear shift at a higher RPM when the engine is cold but I'm slowly getting use to it - but nothing to really to worry about as once it is warmed up all is fine with the engine-transmission shifting. I did encounter some mildly cold weather (low & mid 20's) and no issues other than increases fuel consumption (again, normal).
To be honest, I was quite curious to compare before and after since I make the trip annually (for the last 3 years) and I have a pretty good idea where the fuel mileage and power issues along the route are located.
Lastly, in one of my earlier posts just after having the fix done, I was critical about the initial driving character, but as others have stated, and I'm happy to confirm, the CD did eventually adapt to what I had been used to previously. For me I honestly see no disadvantage from the fix.
01-08-2018, 06:23 PM
#5122
Rennlist Member
Thanks for the informative post. I just did a google search to check the info. So, it looks like what the fix is doing is counter. You actually want to keep the exhaust temperature down, not up. With the fix, they are trying to keep it up ASAP.
On another note, I hope people who want to buy a CD do their postings on the main board. There is a thread discussing where inventory is available. As much as I love reading about your search and purchases, I think this thread should continue to be mainly about the issues dealing with the cheating and the fix
On another note, I hope people who want to buy a CD do their postings on the main board. There is a thread discussing where inventory is available. As much as I love reading about your search and purchases, I think this thread should continue to be mainly about the issues dealing with the cheating and the fix
EGT is a major factor in turbo engines. For diesel pickups, the first mod before any engine tuning is an EGT guage. But as far as I can tell from driving a '14 and '15, the engine's RPMs are certainly not excessive in any way, nor does it seem the fix is in anyway overfueling the engine. If it were, it would INCREASE pollution, not decrease it and you'd see telltail black smoke on accelleration. Nor does it seem in anyway that there is overboost happening. Underfueling could create a hot cylinder temp and higher EGTs but also increases NOX, so not what the fix would go for, I think.
Absent any EGT readings pre- and post- fix, I'm not buying higher, sustained, EGTs are a byproduct with of the fix.
01-08-2018, 06:47 PM
#5123
Banned
Sorry, that post seems like BS and based on nothing more than presumption and conjecture. The fix doesn't increase EGT any more than running in Sport mode. OK, sure, EGTs will be a bit higher than before, during the warmup stage, while the RPMs are held higher, but how many people on here have said the first thing they do is hit Sport after starting the engine.
EGT is a major factor in turbo engines. For diesel pickups, the first mod before any engine tuning is an EGT guage. But as far as I can tell from driving a '14 and '15, the engine's RPMs are certainly not excessive in any way, nor does it seem the fix is in anyway overfueling the engine. If it were, it would INCREASE pollution, not decrease it and you'd see telltail black smoke on accelleration. Nor does it seem in anyway that there is overboost happening. Underfueling could create a hot cylinder temp and higher EGTs but also increases NOX, so not what the fix would go for, I think.
Absent any EGT readings pre- and post- fix, I'm not buying higher, sustained, EGTs are a byproduct with of the fix.
EGT is a major factor in turbo engines. For diesel pickups, the first mod before any engine tuning is an EGT guage. But as far as I can tell from driving a '14 and '15, the engine's RPMs are certainly not excessive in any way, nor does it seem the fix is in anyway overfueling the engine. If it were, it would INCREASE pollution, not decrease it and you'd see telltail black smoke on accelleration. Nor does it seem in anyway that there is overboost happening. Underfueling could create a hot cylinder temp and higher EGTs but also increases NOX, so not what the fix would go for, I think.
Absent any EGT readings pre- and post- fix, I'm not buying higher, sustained, EGTs are a byproduct with of the fix.
Cheers and have some Aslan for me.
01-08-2018, 07:47 PM
#5125
Rennlist Member
^^^ I think you both agree that EGT is an important factor. Maybe someone who is all set in having the fix volunteer to do a pre and post EGT reading? I, myself, am a greenhorn when it comes to this. In the two years since this thread started, I think this is the first time I have read about EGT and its effect on engine life.
Where is Gnat when you need him?
Where is Gnat when you need him?
01-08-2018, 08:21 PM
#5126
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Totalled Cayenne
My 2016 CD, and my wife's 2015 Touareg TDI feel the exact same after the fix. Waiting for the money was not worth it to us. What happens if the truck is totaled?, then one gets nothing, which here in the winter, is all too possible.
I do like my CD after the fix as I got $4,305 in extra, free money, along with more warranty.
I do like my CD after the fix as I got $4,305 in extra, free money, along with more warranty.
As for the discounts on the CD's, I bought my 2015 CD brand new in September 2016 for $68K on an sticker of $79K, at 14% discount. So 15% off a 2+ year vehicle doesn't seem like a great deal to me.
01-08-2018, 08:35 PM
#5127
You will get your full payment if your Cayenne is totalled. I just got my check today as a matter of fact. Lost my 2015 Cayenne in a house fire, see attached photo.
As for the discounts on the CD's, I bought my 2015 CD brand new in September 2016 for $68K on an sticker of $79K, at 14% discount. So 15% off a 2+ year vehicle doesn't seem like a great deal to me.
01-08-2018, 10:04 PM
#5128
Rennlist Member
^^^ I think you both agree that EGT is an important factor. Maybe someone who is all set in having the fix volunteer to do a pre and post EGT reading? I, myself, am a greenhorn when it comes to this. In the two years since this thread started, I think this is the first time I have read about EGT and its effect on engine life.
Where is Gnat when you need him?
Where is Gnat when you need him?
On my Ram, to get EGT you have to tap into the exhaust pipe manifold (pre-turbo) to install the sensor.
If anyone knows how to extract sensor readings from the CD system....
01-09-2018, 01:08 AM
#5129
Greetings
Picked up our 2013 CD after the fix. Original owner with 37K miles on the ODO.
Here are some quick observations, need more time/miles behind the wheel to re-vist current observations.
-In a nutshell, always on SPORT mode with out pressing the SPORT button. Saving me from karpaltunnel
-Temperature was 55F when I picked it. 55F, hear that East Coast?
-As noted by other owners, higher RPM's compared to pre-fix.
-Wonder if staying at higher RPM is determental to engine or other exhaust parts longivity? 911 owner speaking here.
-Only 30miles so far, no HWY yet. speed < 60 miles/hr
-8th gear seems to have disappeared.
-New and distinctive exhaust smell, even some burning like smell. Missing the pre-fix Starbucks Dark roast aroma.
-Burning smell due to new exhaust parts?
-Compared pre and post Engine noise levels in decibel with a phone app. Seems to be same at Idle (inside and outside)
-A bit louder noise while running, due to higher RPM shifts (?). Need to visit Honda Civic forums and find me a new exhaust.
-Seems to have turned into a gas guzzler? Fuel needle dropped a bar and barely clocked 30miles.
-Dealer did perform a mini detail and topped the fuel level. Porshce trying to guilt trip us with all this pampering.
Am I happy with the fix? no judgement yet. Need couple of more weeks at the wheel
thanks
PS: Saudi Morality police here, pls keep the thread clean with fix and direct fix related posts. thanks
Picked up our 2013 CD after the fix. Original owner with 37K miles on the ODO.
Here are some quick observations, need more time/miles behind the wheel to re-vist current observations.
-In a nutshell, always on SPORT mode with out pressing the SPORT button. Saving me from karpaltunnel
-Temperature was 55F when I picked it. 55F, hear that East Coast?
-As noted by other owners, higher RPM's compared to pre-fix.
-Wonder if staying at higher RPM is determental to engine or other exhaust parts longivity? 911 owner speaking here.
-Only 30miles so far, no HWY yet. speed < 60 miles/hr
-8th gear seems to have disappeared.
-New and distinctive exhaust smell, even some burning like smell. Missing the pre-fix Starbucks Dark roast aroma.
-Burning smell due to new exhaust parts?
-Compared pre and post Engine noise levels in decibel with a phone app. Seems to be same at Idle (inside and outside)
-A bit louder noise while running, due to higher RPM shifts (?). Need to visit Honda Civic forums and find me a new exhaust.
-Seems to have turned into a gas guzzler? Fuel needle dropped a bar and barely clocked 30miles.
-Dealer did perform a mini detail and topped the fuel level. Porshce trying to guilt trip us with all this pampering.
Am I happy with the fix? no judgement yet. Need couple of more weeks at the wheel
thanks
PS: Saudi Morality police here, pls keep the thread clean with fix and direct fix related posts. thanks
01-09-2018, 01:50 AM
#5130
Took my car in to the dealership today for a CEL, a non-start issue over the weekend thanks to the cold, and some smell/fumes getting inside the cabin. Turns out I have a "leak at the catalytic converter" and it needs to be replaced along with a fuel gelling issue (my fault for not treating the fuel at 10 degrees). Magically, my car is now having the diesel fix completed done 2 weeks sooner than my rescheduled appointment (rescheduled due to lack of parts in December). I hope to have my car back by end of week and will report as well. Mine is a 13 with 92.5k miles on it. Having a few issues lately and am concerned about the long term viability of owning this car past the 100k warranty period and the extended part from the fix.