visitador

Great observation. That's why the Cayman/Boxster is going 4 cylinder and the 911 is getting a smaller 6 with turbo. Still, without VW fleet help, there is no way Porsche alone can accomplish the numbers. Also, Europe is tightening the fuel efficiency rules.

I hope CARB finds the V-6 TDIs are in compliance.

caronsd

My 2016 CD build locks today - hoping there is no slowdown in manufacturing as fallout, but not too worried about the Porsche application of the 3.0 V6 diesel being cleared by the Feds.

wrinkledpants

Porsche made a statement that they do their own emissions calibration, and that the VW issue does not apply to them. I doubt they would make that statement knowing that the EPA is likely going to be checking for this.

http://www.businessinsider.com/porsc...scandal-2015-9

chuckla

My wife and I have been looking at a Cayenne diesel. But, with the EPA investigation and the internal VW investigation and the uncertainty around both of them, I am not buying a diesel. Especially, since diesel values undoubtedly just dropped a lot.

abatis

Just saw this over at the Wallstreet Journal:

"Today that the German government announced that this VW issue effects many of European diesel engines too. They’ve identified the 1.6 and 2.0 diesels, but it is just a matter of time before they realize that a different algorithm is limiting the urea flow in the 3.0 diesel. The ICCT had data from Emissions Analytics from PEMs testing of an Audi A8 with the 3.0 diesel. This was x22 times over the 80mg/km NOx limit."

I hope Porsche is truthful on the diesel engine in the US. If VW announces Porsche CEO Matthias Müller is taking over VW tomorrow, it would be a clear signal that Porsche is not fooling with the algorithm like VW and potentially Audi.

gnat

Claims/Rumors of BMW's EU X3d also being 11x over the limit.

BMW is claiming they have no cheat system in their cars. If both claims are true that could mean there is an issue in the certification process or how these systems age which would then bring all cars into question.

It looked like diesel was finally going to make some headway in the US market, but I think that's done. It will just go back to a niche market again.

abatis

Porsche and Audi head engineers also being fired regardless of what they knew?

"BERLIN (Reuters) - Volkswagen will fire three top executives on Friday, a senior source said, as the German carmaker tries to recover from a scandal over its rigging of U.S. vehicle emissions tests.

One day after chief executive Martin Winterkorn quit, the source said the head of the company's U.S. operations and top engineers at premium VW brands Audi and Porsche would be dismissed, regardless of whether they knew about the cheating."

DWPC

I wonder what Marchionne's thinking while about seeing VW stock cratering.

DWPC

Just heard that Porsche's Müller will replace Winterkorn as CEO of VW Group.

PJ Cayenne

They won't be available for very long.

alexb76

An actual defeat device is a pretty sneaky and maybe illegal way to pass emissions, BUT in general literally EVERY single car would perform worse MPG and emissions in real-world vs. lab controlled setting. So, how can one not be compliant on the road when it passed in the lab? The key to certification is that, it MUST be done in a controlled lab environment to be equal across all brands, models. HOW could one pass emission in real world? What does that even mean? What speeds? What elevation? Straight line, or in corners? Within what distance? What about road surface? etc, etc, etc...

Hence a fixed lab environment is specified, to be fair and measruable. I can 100% gaurantee that ALL of our engines would have a test mode, where the MPG specifically is tuned to be the LOWEST and is optimized for exactly those lab measurements to ensure the best rating is published. Question is how far off that maybe from the real consumption and emission, and I think EPA and others must have a threshhold (+/- 25%) for real-world results to differ from lab before it could actually be questioned.

As much as what VW has done is scandalous, it may not be that far off from the norm in the industry as everyone tries to optimizes their engines to yield the best result under the tests.

alexb76

He advocated to merge with GM!

This is TERRIBLE NEWS for car makers, regulators are going to go after them hard, costing them Billions of dollars and smaller companies will NOT survive this

Car industry was one of the last few where we actually had some decent choices available to us. Look at any other industry and 2-3 companies dominate the whole market (Apple, Google, Samsung, only 3 Airlines left, etc...).

This is just terrible for overall consumer choice in the upcoming years. Just like literally EVERYONE has an iPhone, we may end up all driving a Tesla or whoever wins the monopoly race!

abatis

Marchionne's has some point in much capital is wasted on everyone trying to skin a cat in a different manner. However, I think his approach would limit innovation. Who knows, things like ABS might never be invented if there was not some advantage to be first.

Needsdecaf

How often have you guys filled up the urea tank? I've done it once, and Had the dealer top it off for probably 7-8 gallons in 35k miles....

Has me worried.

PJ Cayenne

We should all be worried with VAG products. I think values are going to be trashed, with Diesel Cayennes being very much affected by loss of reputation to the TDI brand. This doesn't even take into account if a fix results in loss of performance and increased fuel consumption. This situation is no different then CEOs making misleading financial statements. Purchases of these vehicles were made based on VAG reputation and statements they met all regulatory requirements. We all bought these assets based on this information.

Now- how about EPA/CARB negligence? They could have or should have known the test results were suspect. In many accounting scandals, the auditor is held responsible, even though they were clearly defrauded.

We also have a '12 VW Jetta GLI, a terrific and fun car as is the Cayenne.