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These are some images from AllData (and the factory manual who AllData uses as a source).. that I'm hoping Ptech can comment on: The "oil guide" part of the engine.. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The oil pan ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Some sort of inspection plug in the engine casting(?) into the bell housing? ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wondering which might be the source of the leak - and how to check.....
Another thing to check for is I have seen vacuum pumps that allow oil to get into the vacuum system. There is a vacuum operated coolant valve on top of the transmission and I have seen oil leak down from there. These were the screws for the oil guide I was talking about checking. These screws are aluminum so be careful. By the book they should be replaced after removal but you should be ok to reuse them if you’re careful.
These are some images from AllData (and the factory manual who AllData uses as a source).. that I'm hoping Ptech can comment on:
Some sort of inspection plug in the engine casting(?) into the bell housing? ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wondering which might be the source of the leak - and how to check.....
That rubber plug allows access to remove the torque converter screws for transmission removal. There is very little room to look inside the bell housing from there as the torque converter pretty much fills the entire housing. I think you would have better luck looking through the crank sensor hole with a scope.
Mine is with "Preferred Warranty" - so far they have covered some HVAC work without a quibble, but it was only around $400, so they're still well ahead of the game on me. I think only exclusionary warranties are going to cover seals, if any do - but it wouldn't surprise me to find out they don't. Mine is a fairly comprehensive inclusionary warranty - except for seals. Dammit. In chatting with ptech off line - he's seen very few rear seals and his WAG is it might be a leak at the upper oil pan - I assume the junction between it and the block. He told me how to check for this (removing a few of the bolts holding it together to see if there is oil on the threads) - so I might do that.
Decided to forgettaboutit for a bit and took off on my reliable BMW to circle Lake Erie. First night out, a bit west of Binghamton NY. Was a bit of rain getting here, but I haven't melted yet. Tomorrow Buffalo NY and the big decision, clockwise or counter-clockwise?
I'll return to obsessing about the Cayenne when I get back.
Last edited by deilenberger; 06-01-2018 at 12:20 PM.
Hi Don, just curious, any update on this yet, or are you 2-wheeling cross country at the moment? - Joe
Back from circling Lake Erie. The Canadian side is nice. The US side varies from very nice to abandoned heavy industrial.
I've been giving it some thought and doing a bit of research:
It is possible to R&R the transmission without removing the engine. Surprised me - but AllDataDIY showed the entire process. Good part - it wouldn't be as expensive as having to R&R the entire engine/transmission assembly. Bad part - not something I'd want to do at home, and not sure if my independent mechanic wants to do it. There, of course, are special tools required which my independent wouldn't have. The dealer was asked for an estimate back before I left on the trip - so far nothing is forthcoming from them.
Found this product: https://products.liqui-moly.com/motor-oil-saver-3.html - it's supposed to stop leaks by reconditioning hardened seals (it uses a rather complex "ester" component to do this..) Bought 2 cans, dumped it in yesterday. Obviously too soon to report any results. Bob's the Oil Guy has a number of threads on it - with a lot of success stories and no horror stories. Amazon carries it - so there are customer reviews. They seem to run predominantly positive. It's apparently quite popular for several BMW models that have a problem with seals hardening up and leaking, or allowing oil to be sucked past the valve stem seals. Again - lots of positive resorts - no horror stories. A few "no result" stories. This apparently requires several hundred miles to work on the seals - but has the immediate effect of increasing the viscosity of the oil a bit (the oil analysis' that I've seen of it indicate about a half a number increase - ie - oil that has sheared down to a 0W-30 - becomes a 0W-40 again with the additive.) I'm going to run it for a while. then put the P!G in the highest terrain mode where I can fit under it easily, wipe down the leak, then drive it for a few hundred miles and check for the drip.
In conjunction with the oil additive - I'm considering changing brands of oil. I'm currently using Mobile-1. There are many reports of oil analysis that show the viscosity of M1 breaks down rather rapidly with use, leaving you with a thinner oil than is actually spec'd for the engine. LubroMoly makes an oil that apparently doesn't have this problem, and Amsoil 5W-40 also appears as a reasonable alternative. My very favorite oil - Castrol Edge 10W-60 Euro formula, doesn't have A40 approval or I'd use that. I've had it in my motorcycle engines for years now - and had numerous oil analysis' run on it. It resists sheering loss of viscosity quite well, and the higher hot number isn't necessarily a bad thing (it's a very good thing on an air/oil cooled motorcycle engine - when stuck in town traffic - where the oil gets quite hot..)
Patrik reports that his engine stopped leaking oil after an oil change. I've been meaning to ask him what oil had been in the engine, and what was used when it was changed... If it's Mobil-1, then new oil will be a thicker oil than the used Mobil-1.. thicker may mean it won't leak past the seal. That's part of the reason I'm considering 5W-40 and an oil that maintains viscosity better than M1.
So - that's where I am at the moment. The good part about motorcycle riding is - on boring stretches of road it gives me an opportunity to really mull over things like this - without distractions. The items above are the result of my mulling.
The good part about motorcycle riding is - on boring stretches of road it gives me an opportunity to really mull over things like this - without distractions. The items above are the result of my mulling.
Welcome back. Sounds like you had a great trip!
Appreciate the update. It'll be interesting to hear how this additive does. If it doesn't do the trick then I assume 'Plan B' will be to try switching to another oil as you mentioned?
If neither works, are you still covered by CPO or a warranty? I'd hate to see that labor bill from a P dealer especially!
Don, I still don't have the leak. I change the oil every 5k miles. Up until my most recent change, I used the Mobil 1 0-40. However, my most recent change (1k miles ago) I used Motul 5-40. Still no leak.
Patrik - thanks for the update. I'm certainly considering a different oil. I think Lubro-Moly is fairly easy to find - Advanced Auto probably carries it.
CarGuyNVA (name?) no warranty coverage on this. I doubt if there is any aftermarket warranty that covers seals. At least in the more common inclusionary ones (where they only cover exactly what they say they cover..) I do have an aftermarket warranty - but it very carefully mentions that seals are only included if they are replaced as part of another repair that requires them to be replaced (ie - rebuilding a transfer case for instance..)
I'll try keeping the thread up to date on what happens. So far nothing - I haven't driven the Cayenne since I dumped the stuff in.
CarGuyNVA (name?) no warranty coverage on this. I doubt if there is any aftermarket warranty that covers seals. At least in the more common inclusionary ones (where they only cover exactly what they say they cover..) I do have an aftermarket warranty - but it very carefully mentions that seals are only included if they are replaced as part of another repair that requires them to be replaced (ie - rebuilding a transfer case for instance..)
I'll try keeping the thread up to date on what happens. So far nothing - I haven't driven the Cayenne since I dumped the stuff in.
Ah yes, that’s a good point re: warranties and seals/gaskets. Often one of those ‘gotchas!’ Hopefully you won’t get to that point anyway.
This is after 1,000 miles with the LubroMoly leak stop in. https://products.liqui-moly.com/motor-oil-saver-3.html That is without wiping it down, washing it off or even touching it. I crawled under with the suspension in high-terrain mode, and snapped a few pics. Needless to say - I'm pleased.
Just for reference - this is the "before" as best I can crop/resize it to match the "after":
BEFORE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'll be switching from Mobil-1 next oil change - probably go with the LubroMoly approved oil. Will also keep an eye on it.
Happy in NJ (and heading out with a solvent soaked rag to clean up the area real nice..)
I'll be keeping an eye on it. It's easy enough to take pics of (less easy to touch) with just raising the suspension all the way up. I cleaned it with a solvent soaked rag on the end of a long pincer sort of tool used to hold nuts/bolts at a distance.. worked great.
05-15-2018, 12:29 PM
