Centre Channel delete?
08-11-2017, 09:48 AM
#1
Track Day
Thread Starter
Centre Channel delete?
Hi all,
I have a 2013 CTT with the Bose sound system. This factory system is pretty good but I've been into car audio for years and have equipment from Audison that replaces the factory amp and retains full factory head unit functionality. It's also fully customizable and programable, and a significant sound quality improvement over factory (even with the factory speakers). If anyone is interested the Audison units I use are the Bit DMI and AP8.9 bit.
Getting to my question.... My CTT is the first vehicle I've owned that has a relatively decent centre channel speaker in the dash, matched well with the rest of the factory speakers. With the Audison equipment I have I'm faced with a decision to keep the centre channel in the mix, or delete it in favour of applying the added wattage to the front bass drivers. The amp wiring for either scenario would be for the most part semi-permanent, or at least not easily switched between the two options (centre with/without)...
Are there any audiophiles out there in 958-land who have upgraded the factory equipment? Did you maintain your centre channel? I've always gone without but am kind of enjoying the centre in my Cayenne... and am not sure if I'll miss it if I go without it in favour of bridging the amp's power to the front woofers instead of the centre...
Thanks in advance!
Des
I have a 2013 CTT with the Bose sound system. This factory system is pretty good but I've been into car audio for years and have equipment from Audison that replaces the factory amp and retains full factory head unit functionality. It's also fully customizable and programable, and a significant sound quality improvement over factory (even with the factory speakers). If anyone is interested the Audison units I use are the Bit DMI and AP8.9 bit.
Getting to my question.... My CTT is the first vehicle I've owned that has a relatively decent centre channel speaker in the dash, matched well with the rest of the factory speakers. With the Audison equipment I have I'm faced with a decision to keep the centre channel in the mix, or delete it in favour of applying the added wattage to the front bass drivers. The amp wiring for either scenario would be for the most part semi-permanent, or at least not easily switched between the two options (centre with/without)...
Are there any audiophiles out there in 958-land who have upgraded the factory equipment? Did you maintain your centre channel? I've always gone without but am kind of enjoying the centre in my Cayenne... and am not sure if I'll miss it if I go without it in favour of bridging the amp's power to the front woofers instead of the centre...
Thanks in advance!
Des
08-11-2017, 12:02 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
How much added power are we talking about?
I have the Burmeister and if I listen, there isn't much sound coming from the door speakers as opposed to the dash speakers.
I'd probably keep the center channel and not worry about the added power to the doors. Staging is very important
I have the Burmeister and if I listen, there isn't much sound coming from the door speakers as opposed to the dash speakers.
I'd probably keep the center channel and not worry about the added power to the doors. Staging is very important
08-11-2017, 12:50 PM
#3
The specs make it look like the Audison unit actually puts out less power than the factory bose amp. I don't know much about Audison, but I'd be skeptical stepping down in power output while keeping the same drivers. I'd be torn too. Bump the power to the door speakers, or keep the clarity and sound stage provided by the center. Tough call.. I know what my solution would be. (it isn't one of those two options)
08-14-2017, 09:12 AM
#4
Track Day
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies folks! As for the wattage specs, I'm not concerned with that as the quality of the watts is a significant step up with the aftermarket components over factory. Factory specs are also often at a max level, whereas aftermarket is usually an RMS spec. From a sound quality aspect though, the Audison pieces enable each channel to be EQd to personal tastes, and time delay set on each channel of the amplifier so each speaker's sound reaches the driver's head at the same time. This is where the primary benefit is...
I guess my question stems from my being a two channel audiophile in my home system... In that regard adding any form of complexity can add detrimental effects to all aspects of the sound. But... the factory centre is well matched to the other speakers (which is less than often the case in factory systems) and I think you're correct that the soundstage will benefit with it remaining in place.
I guess my question stems from my being a two channel audiophile in my home system... In that regard adding any form of complexity can add detrimental effects to all aspects of the sound. But... the factory centre is well matched to the other speakers (which is less than often the case in factory systems) and I think you're correct that the soundstage will benefit with it remaining in place.
02-20-2018, 04:23 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
desbiss - What did you end up doing? I was about to just upgrade the sub, but I find myself heading down a slippery slope.. Now I'm considering a Mobridge DA3 (or something along those lines) feeding a pair of amps - running the front stage active (just a 2-way front) and some rear coaxes for fill, and a new sub.
Like you, I've always been a 2 channel guy, but for some sources (like XM radio where the quality is crap anyway), I have to admit I kind of like the "surround" mode. Looking on page 21 of the AP8.9BIT manual, it looks like preset 7 is pretty similar to what you were asking about (except that output 7 wouldn't be used), and apparently it provides the higher power for the center channel and the door speakers.
The 8.9 is interesting, and would certainly allow me to do my upgrade in stages. It would also make my thought of buying the Burmester center channel (not very expensive at all) definitely work. Hmmmmmm.
Like you, I've always been a 2 channel guy, but for some sources (like XM radio where the quality is crap anyway), I have to admit I kind of like the "surround" mode. Looking on page 21 of the AP8.9BIT manual, it looks like preset 7 is pretty similar to what you were asking about (except that output 7 wouldn't be used), and apparently it provides the higher power for the center channel and the door speakers.
The 8.9 is interesting, and would certainly allow me to do my upgrade in stages. It would also make my thought of buying the Burmester center channel (not very expensive at all) definitely work. Hmmmmmm.
02-20-2018, 05:32 PM
#6
Track Day
Thread Starter
Hi Eskimo1. As of yet I have not installed the 8.9, due to other priorities...
However, I have decided that I would most likely NOT delete the centre channel. The sole reason in this case is that I’ve come to realize the center driver is extremely well matched to the others in the front, in fact I believe it may be the same driver as the door mids.
With the drivers having the same sonic signature, the benefit the 8.9 would bring over the factory system would more than satisfy my listening taste. I listen with the audiophile setting activated, and the bass is not lacking to me. The 8.9 would introduce more control, musical power and detail to the overall equation. Along with better soundstaging (as a result of having the center channel retained).
However, I have decided that I would most likely NOT delete the centre channel. The sole reason in this case is that I’ve come to realize the center driver is extremely well matched to the others in the front, in fact I believe it may be the same driver as the door mids.
With the drivers having the same sonic signature, the benefit the 8.9 would bring over the factory system would more than satisfy my listening taste. I listen with the audiophile setting activated, and the bass is not lacking to me. The 8.9 would introduce more control, musical power and detail to the overall equation. Along with better soundstaging (as a result of having the center channel retained).
02-20-2018, 05:37 PM
#7
Track Day
Thread Starter
Eskimo1 - I forgot to mention that I’d retain the factory sub and it’s amp in this equation. It’s adding some low end reinforcement to the somewhat/already capable drivers that are in the doors (which will benefit from the 8.9).
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02-20-2018, 11:09 PM
#8
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Dessbiss Suggest you cntc one of our sponsors 12v Nick @Musicxcarnw ,,perhaps he can assit you . He posts on the 991 forum...
http://musicarnw.com/
02-21-2018, 03:58 PM
#9
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Thanks for tagging me in this redbaron01, happy to share my professional opinion.
The center channel speaker in the Bose and Burmester systems is useful to some extent, but doesn't hold it's value when you add in an auxiliary DSP processor – I'll explain. The factory Bose amplifier feeds a mixed-mono signal to the center speaker and an upmixed signal when in surround mode. Both settings are designed to give the driver and passenger a similar acoustic experience(not a good one, just similar). When you implement something like the 8.9Bit, you now have the ability to correct the speaker's arrival timing relative to the driver's seat and the main listening position. This process gives you the illusion of a center channel speaker without sacrificing the quality of the separation in the stereo image. Of course, we do sacrifice the imaging for the passenger seat, but how much do we really care about that?
My personal recommendation is to not use the center in the final upgrade, but that's subjective and a personal preference.
The center channel speaker in the Bose and Burmester systems is useful to some extent, but doesn't hold it's value when you add in an auxiliary DSP processor – I'll explain. The factory Bose amplifier feeds a mixed-mono signal to the center speaker and an upmixed signal when in surround mode. Both settings are designed to give the driver and passenger a similar acoustic experience(not a good one, just similar). When you implement something like the 8.9Bit, you now have the ability to correct the speaker's arrival timing relative to the driver's seat and the main listening position. This process gives you the illusion of a center channel speaker without sacrificing the quality of the separation in the stereo image. Of course, we do sacrifice the imaging for the passenger seat, but how much do we really care about that?
My personal recommendation is to not use the center in the final upgrade, but that's subjective and a personal preference.
02-21-2018, 04:22 PM
#10
Track Day
Thread Starter
Thanks for the insights you’ve shared 12v Nick! I hadn’t considered the complexity introduced with the centre channel being retained, in terms of using the time delay with the 8.9.
Simplicity may likely overrule in this scenario. I appreciate the perspective and advice. Very good point!
Simplicity may likely overrule in this scenario. I appreciate the perspective and advice. Very good point!
02-21-2018, 09:22 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thanks for tagging me in this redbaron01, happy to share my professional opinion.
The center channel speaker in the Bose and Burmester systems is useful to some extent, but doesn't hold it's value when you add in an auxiliary DSP processor – I'll explain. The factory Bose amplifier feeds a mixed-mono signal to the center speaker and an upmixed signal when in surround mode. Both settings are designed to give the driver and passenger a similar acoustic experience(not a good one, just similar). When you implement something like the 8.9Bit, you now have the ability to correct the speaker's arrival timing relative to the driver's seat and the main listening position. This process gives you the illusion of a center channel speaker without sacrificing the quality of the separation in the stereo image. Of course, we do sacrifice the imaging for the passenger seat, but how much do we really care about that?
My personal recommendation is to not use the center in the final upgrade, but that's subjective and a personal preference.
The center channel speaker in the Bose and Burmester systems is useful to some extent, but doesn't hold it's value when you add in an auxiliary DSP processor – I'll explain. The factory Bose amplifier feeds a mixed-mono signal to the center speaker and an upmixed signal when in surround mode. Both settings are designed to give the driver and passenger a similar acoustic experience(not a good one, just similar). When you implement something like the 8.9Bit, you now have the ability to correct the speaker's arrival timing relative to the driver's seat and the main listening position. This process gives you the illusion of a center channel speaker without sacrificing the quality of the separation in the stereo image. Of course, we do sacrifice the imaging for the passenger seat, but how much do we really care about that?
My personal recommendation is to not use the center in the final upgrade, but that's subjective and a personal preference.