Mark in Baltimore

Hey, everyone,

I'm looking for a 958 GTS (2011-2014 V8) and have done a lot of research. Still, I have some questions.

• Cylinder scoring - My understanding is that the turbo V8s in the CTT and CTTS don't experience this because of the extra oiling (under the cylinders, right?). However, do the 2011-2014 normally aspirated V8s have scoring issues? (Yes, I know that there seems to be a link between cold start up temps and that the number of engine failures seems to be small, but I am not in a position to drop $10,000 on a motor. I've read some posts by Jack Raby as well as some 'listers who have heard some not-so-good things from the dealers with regard to the scoring.)

• V8 versus twin turbo V6 - Is there a reason to avoid the later model GTS (2015 forward) with the twin turbo V6? Is it proven enough? Any predicted/expected scoring issues or is it oiled properly because of the touted design features?

• Ride of the steel spring suspension - I'm having a hard time finding a low mileage car in the color I want with an air suspension. I understand that the air springs are fairly reliable and that they ride well. How do the steel springs compare in terms of ride? Have yet to find a car with PDCC, so I've given up on that. (EDIT: RESOLVED.)

• Adding roof rails - Can I easily add roof rails to a panoramic roof car? Will holes have to drilled and will this affect corrosion resistance? I need to haul my mountain bikes, and Yakima doesn't make a roof rack system for a "naked roof". Definitely not ideal. Haven't had a chance to call Thule.

• Sport chrono - I want to replace my 2007 Sequoia with something that handles much better. Is this crucial to have for someone like me or is it unduly harsh and stupid in the Cayenne? My Sequoia is a land barge that is almost zero fun to drive.

• Panoramic roof - The sport chrono question kind of leads to my next statement. I really don't want the pano roof because of the complexity/reliability/thermal factors, but Cayennes that don't have a pano roof seem to be very lightly optioned, meaning I seem to give up LCA, PTV, Apple CarPlay, etc.

Sorry for all of the newb questions; I have spent hours combing through old posts.

Thanks for any help!

bweSteve

Hey Mark,
I may be able to shed at least a "little" light on some of these. I own a 2012 958.1 V8 CTT w/ many of the options you are listing. The 15 months of ownership so far have been flawless. Yes, even the Pano roof.
Since we seem to be so close, I'll add that I will be at the Chesapeake PCA Lunch drive on Sunday morning. If you belong, we could chat live. It is a Eastern Shore drive over to Rock Hall for crabs/etc.
My thoughts below...
=Steve

• Cylinder scoring - My understanding is that the turbo V8s in the CTT and CTTS don't experience this because of the extra oiling (under the cylinders, right?). However, do the 2011-2014 normally aspirated V8s have scoring issues? (Yes, I know that there seems to be a link between cold start up temps and that the number of engine failures seems to be small, but I am not in a position to drop $10,000 on a motor. I've read some posts by Jack Raby as well as some 'listers who have heard some not-so-good things from the dealers with regard to the scoring.)

I am personally not convinced it is only a "oiling" issue. IMHO I think that oil film strength has something to do with it. Porsche & our dealerships are using 0W-40. And yes, I know that roller rockers & all the engineering of new generation motors allow for such use,... I can't help but think that maybe the film strength along the piston ring & cyl wall suffers as a result.

So do I worry about it? Not really. If it happens to my 958 I will be one of the low percentage unlucky ones.

Sounds like you've also done lots of reading on Cayenne's & cyl scoring yourself. So I'm not sure there's much I could do to calm your fears.

But if you want to do some more reading on oils & film strengths, Bruce Buchanan did a nice writeup over on the 964 Turbo forum...

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-turb...-this-oil.html

• V8 versus twin turbo V6 - Is there a reason to avoid the later model GTS (2015 forward) with the twin turbo V6? Is it proven enough? Any predicted/expected scoring issues or is it oiled properly because of the touted design features?

I have no experience with Twin Turbo V6 Cayenne's, so cannot compare to my v8.

• Ride of the steel spring suspension - I'm having a hard time finding a low mileage car in the color I want with an air suspension. I understand that the air springs are fairly reliable and that they ride well. How do the steel springs compare in terms of ride? Have yet to find a car with PDCC, so I've given up on that.

I am in a air ride PDCC PTV Cayenne, so I can't really compare to the steel sprung. Yes I have driven them, and been a passenger in them,... but I have never really pushed a steel sprung in Autocross like I am in my CTT.

• Adding roof rails - Can I easily add roof rails to a panoramic roof car? Will holes have to drilled and will this affect corrosion resistance? I need to haul my mountain bikes, and Yakima doesn't make a roof rack system for a "naked roof". Definitely not ideal. Haven't had a chance to call Thule.

No, you will not be able to add roof rails in a 958 without having a body shop actually drill into the roof, find the frame underneath, and tie into it. Not something for the faint at heart. Only prior Cayenne MY's had the grooves in the roof that allowed for rail install after the fact. 958's are factory or nothing.

• Sport chrono - I want to replace my 2007 Sequoia with something that handles much better. Is this crucial to have for someone like me or is it unduly harsh and stupid in the Cayenne? My Sequoia is a land barge that is almost zero fun to drive.

Chrono? Yet you mention "handling" (& you've given up on PDCC). So I'm confused by this. To me Sport Chrono is up on the dash, and helps with timing in TSD Rally's. Mine has the simple clock up on my dash. Funny how it provides me 3 ways to read the time, PLUS the time on my PCM, PLUS the time in my dash cluster. Porsche must really want me to be on time!!
Are you sure you meant "Chrono", or are you talking about PASM?

• Panoramic roof - The sport chrono question kind of leads to my next statement. I really don't want the pano roof because of the complexity/reliability/thermal factors, but Cayennes that don't have a pano roof seem to be very lightly optioned, meaning I seem to give up LCA, PTV, Apple CarPlay, etc.

I believe 958 Pano sun/moon roofs have been quite reliable for most. I think Porsche fixed many of the problems from earlier MY's.
And the electric sunscreen that you can pull across the entire Pano glass, really does a fantastic job of keeping the heat & sun out of the cabin. I came from a 4Runner, and this Cayenne is amazing at keeping UV out of the cabin, and sound deadening which also insulates. I'm a fan.

Good luck with your search!
=Steve

Mark in Baltimore

Hey, Steve!

Thanks for the detailed response! I'll check out the link.

Sport chrono is more than a timing system. Here is Porsche's blurb:

The SPORT PLUS button on the center console is used to activate SPORT PLUS mode. The engine becomes even more responsive. The damping is harder and the steering more direct. The Performance Start function ensures optimum acceleration when pulling away. The timer mounted on the dashboard displays the recorded driving time or can be used as a conventional clock. PSM also features a special performance display to view, store and evaluate lap times or other driving times.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/ca...hrono-package/

It affects not only engine responsiveness but also the handling, ride and steering. Sounds cool but could be a pile of hype for the Cayenne.

Bummer about the roof rails, but excellent info that I was not aware of. Not worth it to me to have it added.

I am a long-time Chesapeake member (not too active since I retired from the track) but, unfortunately, can't make it to the lunch and drive on Sunday. I appreciate the offer. Where are you in Baltimore? I'm in West Towson.

luvmy356

I think all GTS's in the USA come standard with the Air Suspension but very few came with PDCC and PTV. If you do a search on the Porsche.com website, there are only two 958 GTS with that combo currently for sale by Porsche dealers. I have the PDCC on my 957 GTS and its amazing how makes this heavy car defy physics while still maintaining a supple ride.

As for the roof rails, you need to find a car that has them from the factory. When I was helping a friend look for a 958 last year, I think the quote was $3k for the dealer to install them. They ended up getting a car without the rails and they use a Thule whisperbar system for their roof box.

Have you considered a 958 Turbo as well? That would increase your chances of finding a 958 with roof rails and PDCC plus it would guaranteed that you get a full leather interior which to me is also a must have option.

luvmy356

Also, expand your search for a 2014 Turbo S. Turbo S's came standard with PDCC. If you find one with the exterior trim in gloss black, then it looks just like a GTS but with more power!

There are at least three on the Porsche.com website right now. Here an example of one https://loeberporsche.com/inventory/...etallic+596078

Mark in Baltimore

I think you are spot-on with the air suspension for the GTS, at least for the 2013 GTS that I Googled: http://www.cars.com/porsche/cayenne/...ard-equipment/ Looks to normally be a $3,980 option that is standard on the GTS.

The weird thing is that on the Porsche's pre-owned website, some dealers are listing them with or without the air suspension, leading me to believe, apparently incorrectly, that it was an option.

I think the 958 turbos are out of my price range for my desired mileage.

Thanks for the input!

Mark in Baltimore

Thanks! Too darn expensive for me.

CanyonBlaster

to OP:

1. All US GTS have air. I have PTV and HIGHLY recommend it. I wish I had PDCC but don't. Not boasting but I am a PCA racer and instructor, decent driver. The PTV REALLY helps the GTS to turn, reduces understeer at the limit really effectively. I drive with traction control off whenever I am driving for fun.

* if that is your car and you driving in your avatar, forgive the "decent driver", etc..

2. Roof rails. EZ-PZ. I went to the local rack attack shop and they have a killer system. They hard mount the train track style rails. they are very low profile and almost disapear when the cross bars are not mounted. I got black to match my trim. Approx $800. IMHO, the factory rails are way too soccer mom.

Mark in Baltimore

Thanks for the info!

Yep, that's my old G class 993 with me driving. I used to race and instruct, too. Results are all on Rennpoints.

I had heard that about PTV. Sounds nice!

I checked out the Rack Attack website. It looks like they're just selling Thule and Yakima stuff; am I wrong? What kind of roof rail did you have installed on your 958? I assume it involved drilling, yes?

Also, do you have the pano roof? Hard to tell from the photo. If yes, I'm very interested in how you installed roof rails to the roof.

deilenberger

One thing that may relieve the worry about the cylinder scoring is a warranty. Either a Porsche CPO or a good aftermarket one. And my WAG is you're looking at dropping more than $10k if the engine grenades. List price on a rebuilt engine from Porsche exceeds $14k. Then 'ya gotta put it in and ship the old one back.

Does it happen a lot? Not from what I've observed - but enough that it might be on the radar for some people. And causing worry.

I think the V6TT has only been out a short while now - so no one knows what bugs might appear with some use and weather exposure. Since you're willing to accept a bit of turbo lag - you might consider looking at Cayenne Twin-Turbos - the real ones - V8's. That considerably widens the possibilities for you since there were lots more Turbos made then GTS's. And the price points seem to be about the same - as is the equipment level. In return you get another 80-100HP.
Had steel on my '06 /S - I liked it, SWMBO kept complaining about the harsh ride. Now with air - when she's in the car - I keep the suspension on "comfort" or "normal" - when I'm having fun solo - it's on "Sport". Plus I run it one step down from normal - makes it easier getting in and out of the vehicle. And it's important to realize - steel springs were available with the adjustable damping - it wasn't a common combination (most were air-springs and adjustable damping.) I imagine all the GTS's came with both. All the Turbos did.
Again - widening your potential buys to include turbos will probably let you find ones with the factory roof rails.
I don't have "Sport Chrono" - but I suspect Sport-Plus is fun, but not something you'd want to live with every day, so use of it would be minimal. And what changes it made to the car seem to have changed with the year of the car.
The pano roof isn't like the ones that really gave them a bad reputation - from BMW, where both halves opened. It's really a glass roof and a sunroof. Difference is - instead of going below the roof - the opening part of the sunroof goes above the fixed glass part. Open it allows MAJOR air into the vehicle. I mostly use it in the tilt mode, but I tried it full open the other day just to see how it was, and I was impressed.

As others mentioned - the power blackout curtain works quite nicely, and on a turbo with black Alcantra headliner - looks right at home when it's closed.
No problem..



The primary difference between the GTS and the V8 Turbo is - the turbos. Other then that, they're much the same vehicle as far as appearance, standard equipment and option choices. I never quite "got" the GTS - except for rarity - and perhaps immediate throttle response - it seemed like you're buying less for more.

FWIW - I drove this and a GTS back to back. Same place was offering both. I went home with this. And I've been quite happy with that choice.

Lovin' it..

Mark in Baltimore

Thanks for the detailed response!

Yeah, I'll likely get a CPO car or an aftermarket warranty, but, once the warranty is done, $14,000 is a nutty price to pay for a new mill. Of course, I really don't want to deal with scoring issue.

I figured data and experiences with the new V6 TTs are too new. The 958 turbo prices seem to be out of reach for me and my desired max mileage.

Thanks for that info.

The Cayenne pano roofs seem to be a bit finicky. I think the majority of owners with pano roofs have posted here that they would prefer to not have them.

I drove a GTS and was more than happy with the power. The appeal of a normally aspirated motor is the simplicity and ease of access.

bweSteve

Not the 958 owners!!

Btw, thanks for the clarification on the Sport Chrono,... verses the Sport Plus button. I had no idea there was a link between the two. My CTT has the Sport button which obviously stiffens up the susp, mods the shift points, etc, and is a blsat to drive with that turned on,.... but I did not know that the Chrono for TSD's etc was linked to all that technology. I have the clock on my dash, not Chrono. But the wife & I also hate TSD's.

=S

abiazis

Can you add PDCC and PTV? Cost? Impossible? Would love to add these options....

bweSteve

Never heard of anyone asking Porsche to add PDCC &/or PTV after the fact, but I would think that extreeeeeemly expensive. Better off selling your current Cayenne & re-buying one that has those options.

Hey Mark, or others. Back to the Sport Chrono up on the dash. So there are THREE options for that dash pod? The clock (which I have), the Compass, AND a Sport Chrono?

Can someone post a picture of the Sport Chrono up on the dash? I can't seem to find a pic of what that would look like.

TIA