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Found accident damage post purchase - Need Advice

 
Old 10-21-2018, 11:35 PM
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boatrace
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Default Found accident damage post purchase - Need Advice

Hi everyone,

I just acquired a 2015 Cayenne S from an out of state, Seattle dealer (I'm in Los Angeles). Vehicle was originally leased in West Palm Beach, FL and the Seattle dealer acquired it off lease at an auction last month. Car looked good, dealer reported no issues/accidents and CarFax had no stated accidents on it. I also had a PPI done at Gerber Motorsport and they found no issues relating to the accident. My brother then checked out the car in person and again, reported no major issues. I moved forward with acquiring the car, sent payment, and just received it. After going through the glove box, I found paperwork from a body shop in West Palm Beach (Fantastic Finishes of Palm Beach) for a detailed work order for the same car/VIN which indicated a significant amount of work was done on the front-end of the car (e.g., front bumper replaced, impact bar replaced, hood replaced, upper tie bar replaced, trans cooler, radiator, condenser all replaced, etc.) from a front-end collision. Invoice indicated $11.2k in parts and $6.5k in labor done. It looked like the prior owner did use insurance for this repair as well. I ran my own CarFax (to confirm that the dealer didn't falsify it) and it matches the one the dealer sent me. However, I ran an AutoCheck report and it does show the accident - a front-end collision on 7/20/2015 with a police report filed (I have requested a copy of this report). My question is what should my recourse be in this case? Do I have anything to go back to the dealer on or is it a case of buyer beware? I have not yet spoken to the dealer about it as I just found the paperwork today. Any advise or insight would be appreciated.
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by boatrace View Post
Hi everyone,

I just acquired a 2015 Cayenne S from an out of state, Seattle dealer (I'm in Los Angeles). Vehicle was originally leased in West Palm Beach, FL and the Seattle dealer acquired it off lease at an auction last month. Car looked good, dealer reported no issues/accidents and CarFax had no stated accidents on it. I also had a PPI done at Gerber Motorsport and they found no issues relating to the accident. My brother then checked out the car in person and again, reported no major issues. I moved forward with acquiring the car, sent payment, and just received it. After going through the glove box, I found paperwork from a body shop in West Palm Beach (Fantastic Finishes of Palm Beach) for a detailed work order for the same car/VIN which indicated a significant amount of work was done on the front-end of the car (e.g., front bumper replaced, impact bar replaced, hood replaced, upper tie bar replaced, trans cooler, radiator, condenser all replaced, etc.) from a front-end collision. Invoice indicated $11.2k in parts and $6.5k in labor done. It looked like the prior owner did use insurance for this repair as well. I ran my own CarFax (to confirm that the dealer didn't falsify it) and it matches the one the dealer sent me. However, I ran an AutoCheck report and it does show the accident - a front-end collision on 7/20/2015 with a police report filed (I have requested a copy of this report). My question is what should my recourse be in this case? Do I have anything to go back to the dealer on or is it a case of buyer beware? I have not yet spoken to the dealer about it as I just found the paperwork today. Any advise or insight would be appreciated.
in 2011 i did buy 08 CS without seeing it , relied on the CPO and the sales manager word of honor, have it shipped to Seattle to do a full body wrap before importing it in person to canada,
when it was delivered to the clear bra guys , they took pictures showing a badly repaired rear pumper , other small dents.signs of hood and right front fender repair and bad paint job.
long story short from a legal point of view you are facing a dead end. the operative word here the dealer will use " best of my knowledge" " did due diligence by having Carfax report" basically you will be stone walled.
my best advise is to approach the dealer on social media, as long as you have proof of damage and in fact you find these copies of the said work order inside the car, that will be your greatest leverage .
good luck .

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Old 10-21-2018, 11:59 PM
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I'm bummed to hear about this.

Can ya answer a few questions?

1. How did the dealer report, to you, no accidents? Verbal? In writing? If verbal, you're going to have a tough time getting anything out of him as he can state the he didn't know and at that point, it's buyer beware

2. Did Gerber Motorsports look for accident damage or just mechanical stuff? Those type of shops usually just go over mechanical stuff as they aren't body people.

If your brother, the dealer and Gerber all missed that the car was in an accident, it was probably fixed top notch. If the dealer didn't even have time to remove the evidence out of the glove, he probably didn't know it was in an accident as he didn't give the car much time. Nabbed it from auction, washed it and threw it on the lot.

Here's the bright side. The car is probably perfect in every way and I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I don't think you have recourse against that dealership.
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:02 AM
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Did you buy it from a Porsche dealership? I assume not since you’re not mentioning that or it being CPO.
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:13 AM
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boatrace
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Originally Posted by RAudi Driver View Post
I'm bummed to hear about this.

Can ya answer a few questions?

1. How did the dealer report, to you, no accidents? Verbal? In writing? If verbal, you're going to have a tough time getting anything out of him as he can state the he didn't know and at that point, it's buyer beware

2. Did Gerber Motorsports look for accident damage or just mechanical stuff? Those type of shops usually just go over mechanical stuff as they aren't body people.

If your brother, the dealer and Gerber all missed that the car was in an accident, it was probably fixed top notch. If the dealer didn't even have time to remove the evidence out of the glove, he probably didn't know it was in an accident as he didn't give the car much time. Nabbed it from auction, washed it and threw it on the lot.

Here's the bright side. The car is probably perfect in every way and I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I don't think you have recourse against that dealership.
Verbally said no accidents, I looked through the emails and he never specifically mentions no accidents, just "clean CarFax, great condition, car has 5 months of warranty left, etc." Gerber's inspection focused on mechanical. Yeah, I mean, the work order mentions everything was replaced with Porsche OEM parts. What's funny is that the work order also states that there is a lifetime guarantee on the work and parts, hah.
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Pointbye View Post
Did you buy it from a Porsche dealership? I assume not since you’re not mentioning that or it being CPO.
No, it was from a luxury-brand dealership, not Porsche.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:43 AM
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I see you are from Los Angeles. If you wish, I'd be more than happy to take a look at your car and let you know if the accident is worth selling the car. I've got a keen eye when it comes to car accidents.

Also, out that dealership so we can all be informed.

Pm me if you would like another set of eyes on the fix.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by RAudi Driver View Post
I see you are from Los Angeles. If you wish, I'd be more than happy to take a look at your car and let you know if the accident is worth selling the car. I've got a keen eye when it comes to car accidents.

Also, out that dealership so we can all be informed.

Pm me if you would like another set of eyes on the fix.
Out that dealership? For what? Sounds like they reported what they knew. Everyone thinks Carfax is the know-it-all regarding a car's history. If you want an accident-free car, you need to pick it up new from the factory!
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:17 AM
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This happened to me on a Sierra I bought and the "family owned dealership" told me to go F myself when I went back to them to ask what could be done. I don't think there is much you can really do since it wasn't purchased as CPO from a Porsche dealer. Sorry to hear though, I know it's a terrible feeling.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:54 AM
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Even Porsche can sell you a repaired car. It's frame damage they have to stay away from.
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:41 PM
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I agree with it being "tough luck."

My sister in law, who is a practicing attorney, had shared with me years ago what some of the very first things they teach one in law school, the whole Caveat Emptor-buyer beware, as people are already buying an imperfect product where there is no law against selling things that have been broken and then fixed.

It came from the days when people were selling and buying horses and how if one bought a horse, and the horse died while being ridden away, well, it is still YOUR horse.

If the Cayenne runs and drives, one has two options, sell or keep and enjoy.
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:48 PM
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Very sorry to hear this. As others have stated, I don't see that you really have any recourse given the way you describe the transaction. I'd be sick. Hopefully though it has been repaired thoroughly and expertly. The fact that you mentioned use of OEM replacement parts is a good sign (although probably no choice for most of the required parts). Perhaps you could locate an approved Porsche collision center in your area and have them check it out for peace of mind. That's what I'd attempt to do in this case, even if I had to pay for that inspection.
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Old 10-23-2018, 10:00 AM
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This is why I don't buy cars out of state, no matter how good the deal. Sorry to hear this, you have to choose whether to keep it as is, or sell it for market value, disclosing the accident and go forward...
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:10 PM
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I hope you have gotten a good deal on the car. It sounds like the repair was done properly with OEM replacement parts anyway. I know it's tough discovering a little dirty secret about your car after purchasing it. Had the dealer kept those repair receipts, would you have known the accident and repairs otherwise? As long as there is no frame damage and everything works as is originally designed, then you may forget about all this after using the car after some time - I hope. I have a similar experience when I bought my BMW years ago. It had a clean carfax at the time when I bought it and was still under warranty and was really nice so I wasn't really that concerned about potential issues with the car then. I used the car for almost 10 years with no problems outside of regular maintenance and I enjoyed ownership of it. It is when I put it for sale when a prior accident showed on the latest carfax. I figured, the carfax database has caught up to the reported accident/repair by then. The difference with mine is that I didn't know of the accident that happened on my car the whole time I owned it. It was perfect as far as I was concerned. Hopefully, you'll have a problem-free ownership on your car. Good luck.
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:55 PM
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All used cars in the US are sold "as-is". Some states have lemon laws that can give you some relief if the car breaks down within a period of time after the sale, and the dealer may offer you a mechanical warranty. But, as far as previous car history, there is nothing you can do unless you can prove that the dealer intentionally mislead you about the car, or that the car would somehow fail a state inspection - which does not sound like that's the case here. I mean, if 3 separate parties inspected the car and detected no damage, it's probably been repaired well. It sucks, but that's one of the risks you always take when buying a used car.
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