Air suspension - Incl in which Option Pkgs?
08-26-2016, 05:27 PM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Air suspension - Incl in which Option Pkgs?
I'm looking for a 2008-10 or 2011-14 Cayenne S without Air Suspension, but am not clear which Option Package(s) it came included with - if any?
I know it was also available as a stand alone option, but it also shows up on window stickers as a "zer cost" option, which usually means it was included in an option package.
In general with the Cayennes, does PASM always include the Air Suspension?
..... or is Air Susp. an additional separate option?
Also in general with the Cayennes, is Air Susp. included in the Premium Pkg. or any other option packages?
TIA,
Tom
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I know it was also available as a stand alone option, but it also shows up on window stickers as a "zer cost" option, which usually means it was included in an option package.
In general with the Cayennes, does PASM always include the Air Suspension?
..... or is Air Susp. an additional separate option?
Also in general with the Cayennes, is Air Susp. included in the Premium Pkg. or any other option packages?
TIA,
Tom
///////
08-26-2016, 06:14 PM
#2
I can't answer your specific question on option packages, but in the 958 (current generation), air suspension is separate and an add-on to PASM. Air suspension allows for changing of ride heights. PASM is dynamic dampers and can be a separate standalone option. If you get air suspension, you'll also get PASM, but not the other way around.
BTW, in the current model book, PASM can be standard on some models (like S E-Hybrid), and air suspension + PASM could be standard on higher end ones (like Turbo).
BTW, in the current model book, PASM can be standard on some models (like S E-Hybrid), and air suspension + PASM could be standard on higher end ones (like Turbo).
08-26-2016, 07:39 PM
#3
Advanced
Thread Starter
I can't answer your specific question on option packages, but in the 958 (current generation), air suspension is separate and an add-on to PASM. Air suspension allows for changing of ride heights. PASM is dynamic dampers and can be a separate standalone option. If you get air suspension, you'll also get PASM, but not the other way around.
BTW, in the current model book, PASM can be standard on some models (like S E-Hybrid), and air suspension + PASM could be standard on higher end ones (like Turbo).
BTW, in the current model book, PASM can be standard on some models (like S E-Hybrid), and air suspension + PASM could be standard on higher end ones (like Turbo).
In fact, I'm staying away from some special normally aspirated V8 models which add on air susp. - such as the GTS & Trans-Siberia; & the Turbos & Hybrids are also out for us too, due to our needs & desire to keep it long term beyond when factory support on parts (i.e.: probably another 20+/- years from now, since we're in our 60's now).
We want a straight air breathing V8 with as few extra electronic gadgets as possible, to serve primarily as our tow vehicle - so I'd really prefer one without the PASM as well, but may live with it on the right CayS.
I've heard from reliable tech sources that the air susp. is a PITA, & IMHO unnecessary for our needs.
Does anyone else know about what option packages the Air Suspension is included with for the 2008-10 Series 2 (or Series 1.5, if you prefer) 957, & 2011-14 Series 3 (or Series 2, if you prefer) 958 Cayenne S models??
Thanx Again!
Tom
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08-26-2016, 09:36 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Of all the 2003 - 2010 CSs that I researched none were equipped with air suspension. If AS was desired it was probably less costly to go the GTS route.
Most online listings have interior shots. MY 2003 - 2010 AS equipped Cayenne's will have 2 silver lever switches on the console behind the shifter, standard suspension will have just one.
Its unusual for buyers to shop for no option trucks but they do exist. My GTS is one example, except for the AS that you don't want.
Most online listings have interior shots. MY 2003 - 2010 AS equipped Cayenne's will have 2 silver lever switches on the console behind the shifter, standard suspension will have just one.
Its unusual for buyers to shop for no option trucks but they do exist. My GTS is one example, except for the AS that you don't want.
08-27-2016, 12:14 AM
#5
Nordschleife Master
Just out of curiosity, why not the air?
It's a pretty durable and robust system. The compressor goes out after a while, but it's a pretty simple job to fix it by replacing the seals (available as a rebuild kit).
It makes dealing with the extra weight on the back a lot easier.
It's a pretty durable and robust system. The compressor goes out after a while, but it's a pretty simple job to fix it by replacing the seals (available as a rebuild kit).
It makes dealing with the extra weight on the back a lot easier.
08-27-2016, 11:58 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Yeah- you rarely hear about suspension issues with the air. Coils - you know you'll be replacing those as they wear out just like any other car. I've often wondered how long an air strut will last, and it's pretty remarkable how reliable they are. 140k miles and 12 years in mine with zero issues. Not a single dollar has been spent on the air system.
Plus, they ride and tow so much better. I can't imagine getting coils to avoid fixing them. If one fails, pull it and replace it. Same procedure as a coil. It's gotta be the most reliable part on the car. If this was an older Audi Allroad, then the coil argument would hold some weight.
Plus, they ride and tow so much better. I can't imagine getting coils to avoid fixing them. If one fails, pull it and replace it. Same procedure as a coil. It's gotta be the most reliable part on the car. If this was an older Audi Allroad, then the coil argument would hold some weight.
08-27-2016, 03:27 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
To add on to what the others just said, Air suspension is a great option for towing as it helps keep the rear level with the tongue weight. And like they said it is very reliable. Also, as far as parts go, a lot of Cayennes and Touaregs (same parts) were made and there is already an aftermarket parts industry for many of these parts which will keep the parts alive for years as well as rebuilders.
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08-27-2016, 07:25 PM
#8
Advanced
Thread Starter
Of all the 2003 - 2010 CSs that I researched none were equipped with air suspension. If AS was desired it was probably less costly to go the GTS route.
Most online listings have interior shots. MY 2003 - 2010 AS equipped Cayenne's will have 2 silver lever switches on the console behind the shifter, standard suspension will have just one.
Its unusual for buyers to shop for no option trucks but they do exist. My GTS is one example, except for the AS that you don't want.
Most online listings have interior shots. MY 2003 - 2010 AS equipped Cayenne's will have 2 silver lever switches on the console behind the shifter, standard suspension will have just one.
Its unusual for buyers to shop for no option trucks but they do exist. My GTS is one example, except for the AS that you don't want.
I have seen a few in the 08-10 era, & more so in the later 11-14 CS's.
BTW - that looks like a pretty steep ramp to get your C-GTS up on the lift in your avatar pic!
Cheers!
Tom
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08-27-2016, 07:39 PM
#9
Advanced
Thread Starter
Just out of curiosity, why not the air?
It's a pretty durable and robust system. The compressor goes out after a while, but it's a pretty simple job to fix it by replacing the seals (available as a rebuild kit).
It makes dealing with the extra weight on the back a lot easier.
It's a pretty durable and robust system. The compressor goes out after a while, but it's a pretty simple job to fix it by replacing the seals (available as a rebuild kit).
It makes dealing with the extra weight on the back a lot easier.
According to my factory trained Porsche mechanic/tech of 41 years now, as well as a buddy who works at Callas, & about a half a dozen plus other Porsche Techs at various P-dealers around the country with whom I've spoken about the CS, the air susp. can be a big problem, & more so on the newer cars, including the Panamera.
If you've had good luck with yours, then great. But I'm not buying new, & may or may not have a CPO or Ext. Warr. on a used one, which is only covering short term anyway.
Your "Compressor goes out after a while" is a perfect example, because German car makers only have to support used parts for 15 years by their law, & at 20 years those parts will be fewer & farther between, plus even more pricey than today - just as anyone with other older Porsches knows.
There is a far better chance to find steel springs down the road from NOS, new & aftermarket, than the less common air susp. components, & the air bags can & do eventually fail with wear, miles & just age.
Anyway IMHO, the proper way to deal with the tongue Wt./Hitch Wt. is with a WD/SC hitch at the point of the wt. on the hitch, I we already have a top of the line Hensley Cub on our restored vintage 1960 Avion T20 (sim. to a `60 20;' Airstream, but better made).
Also, my wife & I really find the ride of a steel sprung CS fine!
But then, my post was asking about which option packages includes A.S. & nt debating the merits of A.S. with those of you who do like it.
You're welcome to your opinions, but with all due respect - it doesn't get my question answered.
Tom
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08-27-2016, 07:55 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
"Its unusual for buyers to shop for no option trucks but they do exist."
Well, we're really not looking for a no options CS - but rather just one without Air Suspension & non-Turbo, & perhaps without PASM too (although I can live with that).
What options we will want either from the factory or added by us with Porsche parts are the Tow Hitch option (gotta love the Porsche-nomenclature of "without ball" LOL), & the rear or reversing camera or back-up camera in common parlance (or a properly matched aftermarket in the case of the rear camera). So having the PCM Nav unit option is also required, in order to use the rear camera.
Everything else option-wise is what is on it, & it won't make or break a deal for use, & some we just don't care one way or another (e.g.: the DVD for rear seats, who cares).
We do not want a dang black one - they're way too hot in the Southwest & SoCal (why does Porsche have to make so many dang black ones anyway!
), & for the same reason prefer not to have a black interior (there's an interesting `12 in the classifieds near us, but the black interior & pano roof hold me back).
We're also looking for under 60,000 miles, & prefer under 50 or 40K if possible, with 1 or 2 owners who took excellent care of it, as we will do long term. So those are the limiting parameters, & we'd really like to find one in SoCal or at least CA, but are looking further afield too.
So just in case someone here wants to PM or email me about a CS which you have for sale (one person has already) ....
- Please fell free to do so!
Cheers!
Tom
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Well, we're really not looking for a no options CS - but rather just one without Air Suspension & non-Turbo, & perhaps without PASM too (although I can live with that).
What options we will want either from the factory or added by us with Porsche parts are the Tow Hitch option (gotta love the Porsche-nomenclature of "without ball" LOL), & the rear or reversing camera or back-up camera in common parlance (or a properly matched aftermarket in the case of the rear camera). So having the PCM Nav unit option is also required, in order to use the rear camera.
Everything else option-wise is what is on it, & it won't make or break a deal for use, & some we just don't care one way or another (e.g.: the DVD for rear seats, who cares).
We do not want a dang black one - they're way too hot in the Southwest & SoCal (why does Porsche have to make so many dang black ones anyway!
), & for the same reason prefer not to have a black interior (there's an interesting `12 in the classifieds near us, but the black interior & pano roof hold me back).We're also looking for under 60,000 miles, & prefer under 50 or 40K if possible, with 1 or 2 owners who took excellent care of it, as we will do long term. So those are the limiting parameters, & we'd really like to find one in SoCal or at least CA, but are looking further afield too.
So just in case someone here wants to PM or email me about a CS which you have for sale (one person has already) ....
- Please fell free to do so!
Cheers!
Tom
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08-27-2016, 09:41 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Where do I get it??
According to my factory trained Porsche mechanic/tech of 41 years now, as well as a buddy who works at Callas, & about a half a dozen plus other Porsche Techs at various P-dealers around the country with whom I've spoken about the CS, the air susp. can be a big problem, & more so on the newer cars, including the Panamera.
According to my factory trained Porsche mechanic/tech of 41 years now, as well as a buddy who works at Callas, & about a half a dozen plus other Porsche Techs at various P-dealers around the country with whom I've spoken about the CS, the air susp. can be a big problem, & more so on the newer cars, including the Panamera.
08-27-2016, 10:46 PM
#12
Advanced
Thread Starter
I mean no disrespect, but if you don't trust this forum over simple things like "what is reliable and unreliable" on this car, then why are you asking us anything at all? Wouldn't a quick phone call to one of your many Porsche contacts be a better resource for you for something simple like what options are included in each package?
What you & anyone else on here likes, does not get demeaned because somebody else on here doesn't want it.
I'm just not debating this with you again, & you're post is technically off topic, & now you're baiting me to react.
The people noted in my prior post with whom I've discussed air suspension I do trust -, & I did not ask this forum in this topic whether it is reliable.
I asked which option packages included air suspension.
I thought someone on here might know, so I posted the question.
Can we please get back to my original question, & stop debating your choice for air suspension, & your trying (again) to convince me that I should get it, then slam me for not taking your advice??
No disrespect intended from me either - let's just agree to disagree on my choice regarding no air suspension, shall we?
Thank you!
Tom
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08-28-2016, 02:39 AM
#13
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Tom,
If you don't want air suspension then don't get it. As others mentioned - if you look at photos of the interior of any used Cayenne - it's quite obvious which ones have it and which don't. If the switch isn't there (and typically it's two switches - one for PASM and one for the ride height) - the vehicle doesn't have it.
As far as reliability - the 955/957 system used normal intake air to feed the system. It was relieved/vented when the suspension was lowered and refilled when it was raised. That means that any moisture in the air was sucked in along with the air, and when compressed the moisture isn't - so the percentage of moisture is higher. I suspect that was the cause of compressor problems on those series.
Starting with the 958 series - it's a sealed system filled at the factory with nitrogen - which won't support moisture - so any moisture caused corrosion is a thing of the past. I haven't read of any failures of a 958 series (I'm sure there must have been one and someone will tell us about it) - so it seems like they've pretty much debugged it.
As far as advice from mechanics - I always try to remember - they see the broken cars. While they may be servicing cars with normal maintenance - they tend to remember the broken ones, and that works like a concentrator - people don't brag to their mechanic that the air suspension system is working. They complain to them when it's not. More or less like problems listed on Internet forums - most people don't post when stuff works. Just a thought - I try to remember that when a mechanic tells me something, and ask if it's the concentrator effect or if there is an actual problem. In this case - I really don't think there is.
YMMV.. good luck with your search.
If you don't want air suspension then don't get it. As others mentioned - if you look at photos of the interior of any used Cayenne - it's quite obvious which ones have it and which don't. If the switch isn't there (and typically it's two switches - one for PASM and one for the ride height) - the vehicle doesn't have it.
As far as reliability - the 955/957 system used normal intake air to feed the system. It was relieved/vented when the suspension was lowered and refilled when it was raised. That means that any moisture in the air was sucked in along with the air, and when compressed the moisture isn't - so the percentage of moisture is higher. I suspect that was the cause of compressor problems on those series.
Starting with the 958 series - it's a sealed system filled at the factory with nitrogen - which won't support moisture - so any moisture caused corrosion is a thing of the past. I haven't read of any failures of a 958 series (I'm sure there must have been one and someone will tell us about it) - so it seems like they've pretty much debugged it.
As far as advice from mechanics - I always try to remember - they see the broken cars. While they may be servicing cars with normal maintenance - they tend to remember the broken ones, and that works like a concentrator - people don't brag to their mechanic that the air suspension system is working. They complain to them when it's not. More or less like problems listed on Internet forums - most people don't post when stuff works. Just a thought - I try to remember that when a mechanic tells me something, and ask if it's the concentrator effect or if there is an actual problem. In this case - I really don't think there is.
YMMV.. good luck with your search.
08-28-2016, 01:03 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
You know Mr. Wrinkledpants, last year when I was posting some other questions on CayS for a tow vehicle, you & I went round & round on this subject of air suspension, turbos, & whatever other items I decided I didn't want - vs. what you & some others felt I must consider.
What you & anyone else on here likes, does not get demeaned because somebody else on here doesn't want it.
I'm just not debating this with you again, & you're post is technically off topic, & now you're baiting me to react.
The people noted in my prior post with whom I've discussed air suspension I do trust -, & I did not ask this forum in this topic whether it is reliable.
I asked which option packages included air suspension.
I thought someone on here might know, so I posted the question.
Can we please get back to my original question, & stop debating your choice for air suspension, & your trying (again) to convince me that I should get it, then slam me for not taking your advice??
No disrespect intended from me either - let's just agree to disagree on my choice regarding no air suspension, shall we?
Thank you!
Tom
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What you & anyone else on here likes, does not get demeaned because somebody else on here doesn't want it.
I'm just not debating this with you again, & you're post is technically off topic, & now you're baiting me to react.
The people noted in my prior post with whom I've discussed air suspension I do trust -, & I did not ask this forum in this topic whether it is reliable.
I asked which option packages included air suspension.
I thought someone on here might know, so I posted the question.
Can we please get back to my original question, & stop debating your choice for air suspension, & your trying (again) to convince me that I should get it, then slam me for not taking your advice??
No disrespect intended from me either - let's just agree to disagree on my choice regarding no air suspension, shall we?
Thank you!
Tom
///////
Your choice to get air suspension or not is based on incorrect information. This isn't an opinion. You're telling a group of owners for a vehicle that's been around for 16 years that a specific part has problems, and we're telling you as owners, that's simply not true. I've also never heard a Porsche tech (dealer or otherwise) say that the air suspension has issues or is tough to work on.
If you want a CS with coil suspension because it's less complicated overall, nobody will argue with that notion. Or, if you just want coils because that's what you want - then great. Buy what makes you happy. We're just trying to explain to you that your "Porsche network" is telling you something that nobody here agrees with. Just like when your "Porsche network" was telling you a coil pack job was 2-4K, we pointed out that was simply not true. Buying a Porsche for long-term ownership isn't a novelty here. Plenty of people are in this same boat and are actively maintaining a Porsche that is well over 15 or 20 years old without having a ton of issues in sourcing parts.
With the 957, you either have air and PASM, or you have coils. If you see suspension switches and PASM buttons, then you know your answer.
On the 958, option 1BZ is Air + PASM. Option 1BK is for PASM. You need to get the order guides if you want to figure out which packages include it or not. But again, the switches will be a dead give away if you can't get an itemized options list.
Last edited by wrinkledpants; 08-28-2016 at 03:03 PM.
08-28-2016, 02:36 PM
#15
Advanced
Thread Starter
Thanx for the useful info Don & Wrinkledpants.
I can look for the A.S. switch in the interior shots, but ....
Unfortunately they don't always put the interior pix &/or the window sticker or option list in the ads on AutoTrader, CarGurus, Cars.com etc. (the Porsche site & the dealers usually have the list of options from the VIN code read-out).
So if I only have the list &/or no interior pix, it's hard to rule a CS in or out.
BTW Wp - it was Porsche Newport Beach which quoted me $2200 for the 8 coils with parts & labor, when I was looking at one of their customers' 06 Titanium. So maybe they were padding their estimate, which has always been a problem with them since my `73 914-2.0 days back when they were known as Chick Iverson (everyone called them Gyp Iverson for that reason).
Although we preferred that 6 month only Iceland Silver (silvery light blue metallic) paint color only available on the `06 CS Titanium Ed., the coolant pipes lawsuit settlement shutting out new owners after 12/2015 & the improvements made in other items for `08> moved us from that era.
So it's been a refining process, all too often interrupted by a long illness & death in the family last year, running my business, etc.
If we wanted a black one - then we'd have had several so far, & we would've had a couple of nice 2009-10 Blue/Tan ones had the P-dealer sales rep gotten back to me instead of "disappearing" for a couple of weeks!
~I'm just venting~
PS Don - I do understand the issue with the dealer/indie techs seeing more problems, than the satisfied owners without them. We have an old saying in my industry that you: "...take care of the downside, because the upside will take care of itself!"
I just prefer the less complicated conventional coil suspension (per Wp's comment), & think the CS is a great car/suv & TV even in that level of optioning, or lack of options which others may like.
Although, it's good to know about the nitrogen in the 2011> CS's A.S. just in case we find the otherwise "perfect" (for us) `11-14 CS with A.S. & it passes the PPI .... so who knows until a deal is done & a CS is in our driveway!?
Cheers!
Tom
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I can look for the A.S. switch in the interior shots, but ....
Unfortunately they don't always put the interior pix &/or the window sticker or option list in the ads on AutoTrader, CarGurus, Cars.com etc. (the Porsche site & the dealers usually have the list of options from the VIN code read-out).
So if I only have the list &/or no interior pix, it's hard to rule a CS in or out.
BTW Wp - it was Porsche Newport Beach which quoted me $2200 for the 8 coils with parts & labor, when I was looking at one of their customers' 06 Titanium. So maybe they were padding their estimate, which has always been a problem with them since my `73 914-2.0 days back when they were known as Chick Iverson (everyone called them Gyp Iverson for that reason).
Although we preferred that 6 month only Iceland Silver (silvery light blue metallic) paint color only available on the `06 CS Titanium Ed., the coolant pipes lawsuit settlement shutting out new owners after 12/2015 & the improvements made in other items for `08> moved us from that era.
So it's been a refining process, all too often interrupted by a long illness & death in the family last year, running my business, etc.
If we wanted a black one - then we'd have had several so far, & we would've had a couple of nice 2009-10 Blue/Tan ones had the P-dealer sales rep gotten back to me instead of "disappearing" for a couple of weeks!
~I'm just venting~
PS Don - I do understand the issue with the dealer/indie techs seeing more problems, than the satisfied owners without them. We have an old saying in my industry that you: "...take care of the downside, because the upside will take care of itself!"
I just prefer the less complicated conventional coil suspension (per Wp's comment), & think the CS is a great car/suv & TV even in that level of optioning, or lack of options which others may like.
Although, it's good to know about the nitrogen in the 2011> CS's A.S. just in case we find the otherwise "perfect" (for us) `11-14 CS with A.S. & it passes the PPI .... so who knows until a deal is done & a CS is in our driveway!?
Cheers!
Tom
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