Porsche Cayenne S piston / cylinder scoring issue statistics
08-09-2016, 12:24 PM
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Porsche Cayenne S piston / cylinder scoring issue statistics
Disclaimer: I've got a Cayenne S with this issue. My dealership won't do anything, Porsche Deutschland and Porsche NA won't do anything.
I live in a fairly small and cold location. Upon learning about these failures I decided to dig deeper and asked for a list of all vehicles in my area starting with the VIN numbers "WP1AB...".
There were 60 vehicles registered. I got names of 44 owners from the DMV. Then I managed to find 33 in the phonebook/Facebook. Out of those 33 vehicles, 6 had new engines. That's almost 1 in 5. Some owners didn't have information about why the engines had been replaced but those who did blamed scored cylinders.
Two more haven't been diagnosed but are misfiring, one of those on the 8th cylinder. That would bring the total to 25% but as I said, it hasn't been confirmed.
Out of the original 60 vehicles there have been 6 "decommissioned". I suspect scored cylinders to be hiding there as well.
One of the owners notified me of another vehicle that had a European VIN number and therefore not on my list. That would bring the verified total to 7 out of 34.
The full VIN numbers of the failed vehicles are with me but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post those nor if that would do any good.
I'm no car expert but a failure rate of 20-25% is a bit extreme to me.
I live in a fairly small and cold location. Upon learning about these failures I decided to dig deeper and asked for a list of all vehicles in my area starting with the VIN numbers "WP1AB...".
There were 60 vehicles registered. I got names of 44 owners from the DMV. Then I managed to find 33 in the phonebook/Facebook. Out of those 33 vehicles, 6 had new engines. That's almost 1 in 5. Some owners didn't have information about why the engines had been replaced but those who did blamed scored cylinders.
Two more haven't been diagnosed but are misfiring, one of those on the 8th cylinder. That would bring the total to 25% but as I said, it hasn't been confirmed.
Out of the original 60 vehicles there have been 6 "decommissioned". I suspect scored cylinders to be hiding there as well.
One of the owners notified me of another vehicle that had a European VIN number and therefore not on my list. That would bring the verified total to 7 out of 34.
The full VIN numbers of the failed vehicles are with me but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post those nor if that would do any good.
I'm no car expert but a failure rate of 20-25% is a bit extreme to me.
08-09-2016, 12:34 PM
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Starting with the info you have - if you can find a class-action attorney - I'm sure one might be interested. Sounds like the failure rate is similar to the coolant-pipe failure rates.. and that made the class-action attorneys a LOT of money.
08-09-2016, 08:21 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Go to:
http://www.adhuntr.com/
In the search box type Cayenne ticking. Also seach Cayenne knock.
There are usually a half dozen around the US at any given time to choose from. Also, most are being sold by a-holes who refer to it as slight lifter noise or "typical" lifter noise.
On the other hand, there are a never ending amount of Cayennes with 130+K miles in my area and it took me forever to find one 50K miles. Considering how many used up high mileage Cayennes are still roaming the streets, I'd say 20% failure may be high? No matter what, there should be more than enough for a class action suit.
I also have a theory that many of these Cayennes suffered from severely overheated engines after the plastic coolant pipes blew out. There is no shortage of people (especially women) who will keep driving and pushing the gas pedal even further down as warning lights are lit up and steam is billowing from under the car. It's why I went out of my way to find one with the original plastic pipes and then preemptively changed them out myself.
http://www.adhuntr.com/
In the search box type Cayenne ticking. Also seach Cayenne knock.
There are usually a half dozen around the US at any given time to choose from. Also, most are being sold by a-holes who refer to it as slight lifter noise or "typical" lifter noise.
On the other hand, there are a never ending amount of Cayennes with 130+K miles in my area and it took me forever to find one 50K miles. Considering how many used up high mileage Cayennes are still roaming the streets, I'd say 20% failure may be high? No matter what, there should be more than enough for a class action suit.
I also have a theory that many of these Cayennes suffered from severely overheated engines after the plastic coolant pipes blew out. There is no shortage of people (especially women) who will keep driving and pushing the gas pedal even further down as warning lights are lit up and steam is billowing from under the car. It's why I went out of my way to find one with the original plastic pipes and then preemptively changed them out myself.
08-09-2016, 09:43 PM
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Go to:
http://www.adhuntr.com/
In the search box type Cayenne ticking. Also seach Cayenne knock.
There are usually a half dozen around the US at any given time to choose from. Also, most are being sold by a-holes who refer to it as slight lifter noise or "typical" lifter noise.
On the other hand, there are a never ending amount of Cayennes with 130+K miles in my area and it took me forever to find one 50K miles. Considering how many used up high mileage Cayennes are still roaming the streets, I'd say 20% failure may be high? No matter what, there should be more than enough for a class action suit.
I also have a theory that many of these Cayennes suffered from severely overheated engines after the plastic coolant pipes blew out. There is no shortage of people (especially women) who will keep driving and pushing the gas pedal even further down as warning lights are lit up and steam is billowing from under the car. It's why I went out of my way to find one with the original plastic pipes and then preemptively changed them out myself.
http://www.adhuntr.com/
In the search box type Cayenne ticking. Also seach Cayenne knock.
There are usually a half dozen around the US at any given time to choose from. Also, most are being sold by a-holes who refer to it as slight lifter noise or "typical" lifter noise.
On the other hand, there are a never ending amount of Cayennes with 130+K miles in my area and it took me forever to find one 50K miles. Considering how many used up high mileage Cayennes are still roaming the streets, I'd say 20% failure may be high? No matter what, there should be more than enough for a class action suit.
I also have a theory that many of these Cayennes suffered from severely overheated engines after the plastic coolant pipes blew out. There is no shortage of people (especially women) who will keep driving and pushing the gas pedal even further down as warning lights are lit up and steam is billowing from under the car. It's why I went out of my way to find one with the original plastic pipes and then preemptively changed them out myself.
Mine was at 80k miles (which is a lot for the group), two others were at 19k miles and 50k miles.
08-09-2016, 10:49 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
~80K seems to be the magic number in most cases. I know I took a gamble buying mine and I hope by keeping it in a climate controlled garage and never subjecting it to sub zero cold soak starts will make a difference.
Just think if the last generation Toyota Camry had this type of issue (or IMS bearing issue)...heads would be rolling. For some reason Porsche just doesn't seem to care. Even though it didn't benefit me, I'm happy they got their *** handed to them over the coolant pipe issue.
This type of stuff even goes back to thrust bearing failures on the 928.
Just think if the last generation Toyota Camry had this type of issue (or IMS bearing issue)...heads would be rolling. For some reason Porsche just doesn't seem to care. Even though it didn't benefit me, I'm happy they got their *** handed to them over the coolant pipe issue.
This type of stuff even goes back to thrust bearing failures on the 928.
09-22-2016, 12:37 PM
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09-22-2016, 03:18 PM
#8
Drifting
I think the overall failure rate is much lower, but failures are concentrated to colder areas. The failure rate was pretty high when I lived in Alaska, but at that time I spoke to Porsche technicians in California who had never heard of the issue.
09-23-2016, 05:06 PM
#11
09-23-2016, 05:33 PM
#12
The V8 Porschephile
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It would have been good to know the percentages of affected cylinder scoring issues dependent upon model year.
The 4.8's were re-designed with several engine block enhancements; including larger oil & coolant galleys. A variable oil pump was also introduced in 2008.
The 4.8's were re-designed with several engine block enhancements; including larger oil & coolant galleys. A variable oil pump was also introduced in 2008.
09-23-2016, 07:22 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Then again the injectors are so damn loud you probably couldn't hear a bit of cold piston slap in the 4.8 anyways. lol.
09-23-2016, 09:42 PM
#14
The 4.8 957s haven't been immune to this issue either - I have read of a few on here who have had scored cylinders and my 957 CTT had a new engine under CPO for that reason
09-24-2016, 12:22 AM
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Cayenne S Cylinder Scoring Explanation ??
I have been interested in buying a Cayenne S, so I recently looked at many posts on the piston/cylinder scoring problem.
It seems to me like this problem occurs most often in COLD climates where the vehicles are NOT DRIVEN HARD enough (or long enough) to get the oil up to the normal operating temperature.
Either the oil is too viscous to slosh up on the cylinder walls in sufficient amounts, or there is water that is frozen in/on the oil the pan/passages, or something like that.
Remember that the Cayenne S TURBO engines dont have this problem with piston/cylinder scoring. All the turbocharged engines have oil squirters built into the block that spray the backs of the pistons with oil. Normally aspirated engines dont have this nice feature. The oil squirters directly lubricate the cylinder walls. AND, the turbochargers themselves tend to heat up the engine oil more quickly, even when driven at minimal boost levels.
Also, remember that the Cayenne V8 is a DRY SUMP engine. There is some oil directly beneath the crankshaft, but not nearly as much as in a traditionally lubricated engine. There is just not as much oil being sloshed around in the crankcase. Also, dry sumped engines tend to have a large volume of oil in the entire system (just not in the crankcase). This large volume means that it takes longer for the oil to get to a temperature high enough to boil off any water mixed in with it. Water gets in the oil due to condensation as the engine goes through normal temperature fluctuations.
I ran across a few posts where people were angry that their engines had this failure even though they had "babied" their Cayennes since they were new. Well, maybe driving around in cold weather very slowly and carefully is the exact thing that initiates this problem. I wonder if Porsche sufficiently tested the Cayenne V8 in cold weather VERY GENTLY. Sometimes that which is best for an engine to run very hard for a long time doesn't work very well if the engine isn't run hard. Think about how Formula 1 engines overheat in just one minute if they are left to idle on the grid. The entire system is optimized for running at full power. I wonder if Porsche had placed any of the pilot Cayenne S vehicles with elderly couples in Finland. If they had, maybe they would have discovered this weakness in the design.
So, I based on what I saw in many posts and my own reasoning, I went and bought a 2006 Cayenne S the other day with 100,000 miles on it without much worry of having the cylinder scoring issue. I found one that had been in warm climates its entire life, and I plan to keep it in a warm climate.
However, if I must drive my Cayenne S when it is very cold outside, I will make sure that I flog it hard. I am picturing 4 wheel drifts in the snow just to get the oil up to temperature and get it sloshing up on the cylinder walls. I can easily explain the necessity of this aggressive driving to my wife using the logic above.
It seems to me like this problem occurs most often in COLD climates where the vehicles are NOT DRIVEN HARD enough (or long enough) to get the oil up to the normal operating temperature.
Either the oil is too viscous to slosh up on the cylinder walls in sufficient amounts, or there is water that is frozen in/on the oil the pan/passages, or something like that.
Remember that the Cayenne S TURBO engines dont have this problem with piston/cylinder scoring. All the turbocharged engines have oil squirters built into the block that spray the backs of the pistons with oil. Normally aspirated engines dont have this nice feature. The oil squirters directly lubricate the cylinder walls. AND, the turbochargers themselves tend to heat up the engine oil more quickly, even when driven at minimal boost levels.
Also, remember that the Cayenne V8 is a DRY SUMP engine. There is some oil directly beneath the crankshaft, but not nearly as much as in a traditionally lubricated engine. There is just not as much oil being sloshed around in the crankcase. Also, dry sumped engines tend to have a large volume of oil in the entire system (just not in the crankcase). This large volume means that it takes longer for the oil to get to a temperature high enough to boil off any water mixed in with it. Water gets in the oil due to condensation as the engine goes through normal temperature fluctuations.
I ran across a few posts where people were angry that their engines had this failure even though they had "babied" their Cayennes since they were new. Well, maybe driving around in cold weather very slowly and carefully is the exact thing that initiates this problem. I wonder if Porsche sufficiently tested the Cayenne V8 in cold weather VERY GENTLY. Sometimes that which is best for an engine to run very hard for a long time doesn't work very well if the engine isn't run hard. Think about how Formula 1 engines overheat in just one minute if they are left to idle on the grid. The entire system is optimized for running at full power. I wonder if Porsche had placed any of the pilot Cayenne S vehicles with elderly couples in Finland. If they had, maybe they would have discovered this weakness in the design.
So, I based on what I saw in many posts and my own reasoning, I went and bought a 2006 Cayenne S the other day with 100,000 miles on it without much worry of having the cylinder scoring issue. I found one that had been in warm climates its entire life, and I plan to keep it in a warm climate.
However, if I must drive my Cayenne S when it is very cold outside, I will make sure that I flog it hard. I am picturing 4 wheel drifts in the snow just to get the oil up to temperature and get it sloshing up on the cylinder walls. I can easily explain the necessity of this aggressive driving to my wife using the logic above.