Ticking 957 turbo
03-23-2016, 01:02 AM
#32
Three Wheelin'
One video on youtube proves nothing.
Where are all these scored cylinder threads from 957 CTT's? I can honestly think of 3 people who have had scored cylinders on this forum. All 3 fixed under warranty. There is a substantial number of CS owners with had scored cylinders.
What oil did you run, out of curiosity?
Where are all these scored cylinder threads from 957 CTT's? I can honestly think of 3 people who have had scored cylinders on this forum. All 3 fixed under warranty. There is a substantial number of CS owners with had scored cylinders.
What oil did you run, out of curiosity?
03-23-2016, 01:23 AM
#33
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Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
One video on youtube proves nothing.
Where are all these scored cylinder threads from 957 CTT's? I can honestly think of 3 people who have had scored cylinders on this forum. All 3 fixed under warranty. There is a substantial number of CS owners with had scored cylinders.
What oil did you run, out of curiosity?
Where are all these scored cylinder threads from 957 CTT's? I can honestly think of 3 people who have had scored cylinders on this forum. All 3 fixed under warranty. There is a substantial number of CS owners with had scored cylinders.
What oil did you run, out of curiosity?
I'm honestly not here to argue about how many have scored cylinders, or to try and do a statistical analysis based on the microscopic sample that is rennlist. I've beat this topic to death with Web research and run into at least a dozen unique threads on rennlist, 6 speed, etc. All of that doesn't matter.
The entire purpose of my posting my initial comments, and the video was for the OP to compare his engine to the sound of the known cylinder issue. Video to video they are a dead match. It's almost impossible to diagnose anything over the internet, but I would urge him to have it looked at deeper based on the noises. Those are NOT normal.
It doesn't matter if .00001% fail, or 10% fail, when someone asks my opinion on a technical matter, I'll give it. The video the OP posted has all the potential to be a scored cylinder. Caught early, it's fixable.
For the record I used Mobil 0w40 every 5k miles. That may or may not be what I use in the new engine. Not sure which oil camp you're in, but we all know those threads can get silly
-Artie
03-23-2016, 01:40 AM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Honestly, oil is the only thing I can think of for why a motor would blow at 100K miles, if it's driven correctly and otherwise properly maintained.
I've advocated for a long time how crappy M1 is given that it's sheared out to a 30 weight after only a few K miles. All these people with timing codes that they can't fix with new cam chain position sensors and people like yourself blowing motors at 100K miles - both are highly depending on oil viscosity (cam chain tensioners are hydraulic) and it would seem that having an oil viscosity in the car that's more inline with what you'd find in a Civic could have long-term consequences for a car that is made to run up to a 50 weight.
I'm firmly in the camp of using oils that have good oil reports. Shell T6 was much better than M1, and I'm currently about 8K miles into Redline 0W40. I'll submit that sample when I hit 10K miles.
I've advocated for a long time how crappy M1 is given that it's sheared out to a 30 weight after only a few K miles. All these people with timing codes that they can't fix with new cam chain position sensors and people like yourself blowing motors at 100K miles - both are highly depending on oil viscosity (cam chain tensioners are hydraulic) and it would seem that having an oil viscosity in the car that's more inline with what you'd find in a Civic could have long-term consequences for a car that is made to run up to a 50 weight.
I'm firmly in the camp of using oils that have good oil reports. Shell T6 was much better than M1, and I'm currently about 8K miles into Redline 0W40. I'll submit that sample when I hit 10K miles.
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RMD777 (10-21-2021)
03-23-2016, 02:15 AM
#35
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Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Honestly, oil is the only thing I can think of for why a motor would blow at 100K miles, if it's driven correctly and otherwise properly maintained.
I've advocated for a long time how crappy M1 is given that it's sheared out to a 30 weight after only a few K miles. All these people with timing codes that they can't fix with new cam chain position sensors and people like yourself blowing motors at 100K miles - both are highly depending on oil viscosity (cam chain tensioners are hydraulic) and it would seem that having an oil viscosity in the car that's more inline with what you'd find in a Civic could have long-term consequences for a car that is made to run up to a 50 weight.
I'm firmly in the camp of using oils that have good oil reports. Shell T6 was much better than M1, and I'm currently about 8K miles into Redline 0W40. I'll submit that sample when I hit 10K miles.
I've advocated for a long time how crappy M1 is given that it's sheared out to a 30 weight after only a few K miles. All these people with timing codes that they can't fix with new cam chain position sensors and people like yourself blowing motors at 100K miles - both are highly depending on oil viscosity (cam chain tensioners are hydraulic) and it would seem that having an oil viscosity in the car that's more inline with what you'd find in a Civic could have long-term consequences for a car that is made to run up to a 50 weight.
I'm firmly in the camp of using oils that have good oil reports. Shell T6 was much better than M1, and I'm currently about 8K miles into Redline 0W40. I'll submit that sample when I hit 10K miles.
I will refrain from starting an oil argument here, but how many engines have you run from new to overhaul and seen the poor effects of mobil 1?
I've run dozens... Mobil 1 is NOT the problem.
03-23-2016, 03:43 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
I think Mobil 1 is too thin and breaks down too fast. In my c43 amg it would burn through it too fast compared to other synthetics. Never been impressed ever since.
03-23-2016, 04:00 AM
#37
I don't see the oil being an issue here, as this the issue at hand is not related to overheating. As the scoring supposedly has to do with cold starts - a thin good flowing oil would actually be what you want in order to make sure the lubrication works properly when cold and tolerances are small.
Another things is that very few of us 957 owners here are the first owners of our cars. My car is bought from the first owner, an old rich guy who had like 20 cars and only used the Turbo for towing his boats, and kept perferct service records. However, I still have no chance of knowing if he had wild son who would floor it cold every weekend. So if you are not the first owner, what ever you do to keep your car in condition might be too late.
Another things is that very few of us 957 owners here are the first owners of our cars. My car is bought from the first owner, an old rich guy who had like 20 cars and only used the Turbo for towing his boats, and kept perferct service records. However, I still have no chance of knowing if he had wild son who would floor it cold every weekend. So if you are not the first owner, what ever you do to keep your car in condition might be too late.
03-23-2016, 04:10 AM
#38
Three Wheelin'
You might want to let LN Engineering know that M1 is definitely not the problem. An oil that shears down to 0W30 after 3K miles is perfectly fine to run in a 500 HP motor that specs 40W-50W.
http://lnengineering.com/resources/2...rmance-engine/
"Many Porsche repair shops have acknowledged that these newest SN and CJ-4 rated motor oils are not sufficient for protecting any Porsche engine, including newer water-cooled ones. With longevity and the protection of vital engine components in mind, many shops are recommending non-approved motorcycle or racing oils, or the addition of oil supplements at every oil change, for their higher levels of protection. On newer water-cooled Porsche engines where Mobil 1 0w40 is recommended, a simple change to an oil with CJ-4 rating or preferably an oil with SL or CI-4 rating as well as a viscosity of 5w40 rather than 0w40 are two changes that can be done in addition to more frequent oil changes to ensure longevity of newer engines. Granted most of these oils will not come with Porsche approval, so if your vehicle is under warranty, defer to the Porsche approval list and select a 5w40 viscosity where appropriate over that of a 0w40, regardless of API rating, as all will carry the most recent API ratings."
03-23-2016, 09:26 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
RT930turbo,
Just curious, who's doing your engine tear down and rebuild?
Just curious, who's doing your engine tear down and rebuild?
03-23-2016, 10:18 AM
#41
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Oooooookay.
You might want to let LN Engineering know that M1 is definitely not the problem. An oil that shears down to 0W30 after 3K miles is perfectly fine to run in a 500 HP motor that specs 40W-50W.
http://lnengineering.com/resources/2...rmance-engine/
"Many Porsche repair shops have acknowledged that these newest SN and CJ-4 rated motor oils are not sufficient for protecting any Porsche engine, including newer water-cooled ones. With longevity and the protection of vital engine components in mind, many shops are recommending non-approved motorcycle or racing oils, or the addition of oil supplements at every oil change, for their higher levels of protection. On newer water-cooled Porsche engines where Mobil 1 0w40 is recommended, a simple change to an oil with CJ-4 rating or preferably an oil with SL or CI-4 rating as well as a viscosity of 5w40 rather than 0w40 are two changes that can be done in addition to more frequent oil changes to ensure longevity of newer engines. Granted most of these oils will not come with Porsche approval, so if your vehicle is under warranty, defer to the Porsche approval list and select a 5w40 viscosity where appropriate over that of a 0w40, regardless of API rating, as all will carry the most recent API ratings."
You might want to let LN Engineering know that M1 is definitely not the problem. An oil that shears down to 0W30 after 3K miles is perfectly fine to run in a 500 HP motor that specs 40W-50W.
http://lnengineering.com/resources/2...rmance-engine/
"Many Porsche repair shops have acknowledged that these newest SN and CJ-4 rated motor oils are not sufficient for protecting any Porsche engine, including newer water-cooled ones. With longevity and the protection of vital engine components in mind, many shops are recommending non-approved motorcycle or racing oils, or the addition of oil supplements at every oil change, for their higher levels of protection. On newer water-cooled Porsche engines where Mobil 1 0w40 is recommended, a simple change to an oil with CJ-4 rating or preferably an oil with SL or CI-4 rating as well as a viscosity of 5w40 rather than 0w40 are two changes that can be done in addition to more frequent oil changes to ensure longevity of newer engines. Granted most of these oils will not come with Porsche approval, so if your vehicle is under warranty, defer to the Porsche approval list and select a 5w40 viscosity where appropriate over that of a 0w40, regardless of API rating, as all will carry the most recent API ratings."
The above quote is geared mainly at aircooled engines. They have much different requirements, and tend to be much harder on oil due to the temperatures encountered during high duty cycles. In my air cooled cars I run VR1 racing, redline, or Mobil 15w50.
Again, do what works for you. There are plenty of us that actually build engines and have real world experience with Mobil 1.
Again, do you have any personal experiance, or are you just copy pasting crap you read online? I'm basing all my statements on what I have seen on rebuilds I have performed on everything from Ferrari V8s to 600+ HP marine engines.
03-23-2016, 10:25 AM
#42
I decided to listen to my car today from a dead cold start (8h parked, ourside temp around 2 Celcius).
I think my car sounds pretty much like that 2012 Turbo that was posted up earlier, after about 2 mins after start, a light inconsisten knocking sound appears that dissapears when the engine warms up a bit.
http://torre.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Autot/Mobile/IMG_4217.mov I recorded it.
Does anyones car NOT sound like that after a dead cold start a minute or two in to idle? I would never even have came up with listening to it like that.
I think my car sounds pretty much like that 2012 Turbo that was posted up earlier, after about 2 mins after start, a light inconsisten knocking sound appears that dissapears when the engine warms up a bit.
http://torre.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Autot/Mobile/IMG_4217.mov I recorded it.
Does anyones car NOT sound like that after a dead cold start a minute or two in to idle? I would never even have came up with listening to it like that.
03-23-2016, 10:42 AM
#43
Burning Brakes
I thought so.
It's refreshing to see informative posts by someone who does his own wrenching vs. so many who have a mechanic, dealership or indy.
I'm still trying to grasp how a few can listen to the video in the first post and then tell the guy it's normal and compare him to a hypochondriac!
It's refreshing to see informative posts by someone who does his own wrenching vs. so many who have a mechanic, dealership or indy.
I'm still trying to grasp how a few can listen to the video in the first post and then tell the guy it's normal and compare him to a hypochondriac!
03-23-2016, 11:34 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
While I agree this is true, it is pretty clear to me there is a piston / cylinder issue going on here. You can clearly hear the injectors, but the lower frequency, slower ticking (1 time per rev) is what worries me.
Especially since we are nearing the end of winter, and the OP lives in a colder climate.
Especially since we are nearing the end of winter, and the OP lives in a colder climate.
Just to be clear, my post wasn't aimed at the OP. Just forums in general. Sorry if it came across that way. I do all my own wrenching and since I'm a GM guy, reading some of these things starts to get me into that same state of mind since the Porsche is so 180 degrees different than an American vehicle. Then I snap out of it.
As far as oils go, just because one oil is called 40 or 50W doesn't mean it has the same properties as another oil at that weight. Mobil 1 changed formulations a few years back and hasn't been nearly as good since then. People get too hung up on "Porsche recommended" when in reality the reason we have Mobil 1 tags under the hoods of our vehicles is MONEY. That said, I don't think M1 is the problem with these things hurting themselves.
03-23-2016, 11:44 AM
#45
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I agree...
Just to be clear, my post wasn't aimed at the OP. Just forums in general. Sorry if it came across that way. I do all my own wrenching and since I'm a GM guy, reading some of these things starts to get me into that same state of mind since the Porsche is so 180 degrees different than an American vehicle. Then I snap out of it.
As far as oils go, just because one oil is called 40 or 50W doesn't mean it has the same properties as another oil at that weight. Mobil 1 changed formulations a few years back and hasn't been nearly as good since then. People get too hung up on "Porsche recommended" when in reality the reason we have Mobil 1 tags under the hoods of our vehicles is MONEY. That said, I don't think M1 is the problem with these things hurting themselves.
Just to be clear, my post wasn't aimed at the OP. Just forums in general. Sorry if it came across that way. I do all my own wrenching and since I'm a GM guy, reading some of these things starts to get me into that same state of mind since the Porsche is so 180 degrees different than an American vehicle. Then I snap out of it.
As far as oils go, just because one oil is called 40 or 50W doesn't mean it has the same properties as another oil at that weight. Mobil 1 changed formulations a few years back and hasn't been nearly as good since then. People get too hung up on "Porsche recommended" when in reality the reason we have Mobil 1 tags under the hoods of our vehicles is MONEY. That said, I don't think M1 is the problem with these things hurting themselves.