EPA adds Diesel Cayenne to Out of Spec Cars
11-03-2015, 08:20 AM
#46
RL Community Team
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Read the whole history. This has been going on for years and VW has been denying and obfuscating until until there was finally empirical 3rd party evidence against them. Even then they claimed it was only the non-urea motors. Then they claimed that the 3.0 v6 wasn't involved. They have been far from transparent and honest at all through this process until they are caught in such a manner that they can't avoid it any more. The best thing they could have done was recall and really fix the cars when the issue first started to come to light years ago. That would have at least saved them the damage to their brand of being proven as cheats and liars. The next best thing they could have done is releasing a full list of impacted cars when this blew up.
My thought on this situation is that if they are denying it, they had better have a leg to stand on since their pants are completely down right now....
11-03-2015, 11:33 AM
#48
Burning Brakes
Is it a given that the 3.0 Diesel can be made compliant, especially in CA? CARB diesel limits kept diesels of the US market for years (except for 3/4 ton pickups).
11-03-2015, 11:42 AM
#49
Burning Brakes
Me too. The price of diesel is again lower than regular. For years, it was up to 10% more than premium and negated diesel economy for avg mileage driving.
11-03-2015, 12:25 PM
#50
Too bad for VW Group, so buying for those of you that bought the Diesel, was MPG really that important? Or did you expect your cake and to eat it as well (performance/efficiency), or lastly just want to say you own a Porsche?
I ask because, if it was just for MPG's why not save quite a bit of money and buy a loaded Toureg or TDI of some sort, or hell another brand completely? Before the EPA issues came up, were you unhappy with the MPG's? Just curious of the logic, I don't own or want a DC, just curious what is so upsetting to diesel owners (I've not looked much into it, so don't take this offensively).
I ask because, if it was just for MPG's why not save quite a bit of money and buy a loaded Toureg or TDI of some sort, or hell another brand completely? Before the EPA issues came up, were you unhappy with the MPG's? Just curious of the logic, I don't own or want a DC, just curious what is so upsetting to diesel owners (I've not looked much into it, so don't take this offensively).
My reasons for buying it have nothing to do with mileage, the environment or the brand. If it did, I would have bought this:
http://store.ferrari.com/us_en/ferra...-bike-red.html
Initially, I wanted to buy an SUV from some manufacturer other than Porsche. But I looked at everything objectively (ignoring initial cost) and the CD was the best answer. But I am also curious, if you think there is a better vehicle for me, what is it? This is assuming you can answer without further projecting your insecurities on others.
I am following this VW diesel issue. But I am not losing any sleep over it.
The only thing I feel strongly about is that I will try hard to avoid taking my vehicle in to a dealer for any adjustments, reprogramming, etc. because of this issue. I am very happy with my CD.
b-man
11-03-2015, 01:07 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
The old school diesels from Mercedes that created the great rep for diesel reliability and longevity were far, far simpler and extremely heavy engines. I had two with a total of 600K miles. Complex, light TDI engines have a long way to go to earn the utterly bullet-proof rep of the old MB 5 cyl. 3.0. I did love the TDI torque in our Jetta...old NA diesels were exercises in humility.
11-03-2015, 04:59 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
11-03-2015, 05:03 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
The old school diesels from Mercedes that created the great rep for diesel reliability and longevity were far, far simpler and extremely heavy engines. I had two with a total of 600K miles. Complex, light TDI engines have a long way to go to earn the utterly bullet-proof rep of the old MB 5 cyl. 3.0. I did love the TDI torque in our Jetta...old NA diesels were exercises in humility.
11-03-2015, 05:39 PM
#54
The old school diesels from Mercedes that created the great rep for diesel reliability and longevity were far, far simpler and extremely heavy engines. I had two with a total of 600K miles. Complex, light TDI engines have a long way to go to earn the utterly bullet-proof rep of the old MB 5 cyl. 3.0.
I have talked to mechanics (both Porsche and non-Porsche) and they all tell me that the 3.0 diesel V6 engine in the current Cayennes is extremely reliable. That engine has been around in different variations (and different vehicles) for quite some time now.
Also, I think the CD is the only current Cayenne model that comes with the Japanese Aisin transmission (which is supposedly better than the ZF in other Cayennes and competitors).
b-man
11-03-2015, 06:58 PM
#55
I think that it's not just cayenne that's affected, it's all the diesels regardless of brand - bmw, mb, subaru...
VW will take a hit, deduct it from taxes, shake it off and be back in the game in no time.
Enviro agencies will go with "more realistic gas mileage estimates" and "real world emission test conditions" meaning they will go silently higher as no manufacturer would be able to meet the lower ones.
And the world will keep on turning
VW will take a hit, deduct it from taxes, shake it off and be back in the game in no time.
Enviro agencies will go with "more realistic gas mileage estimates" and "real world emission test conditions" meaning they will go silently higher as no manufacturer would be able to meet the lower ones.
And the world will keep on turning
11-03-2015, 10:28 PM
#56
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I don't see other brands having the dishonesty that VW has had. I almost bought a diesel cayenne. I presume that with resale detriment, i could just get a regular cayenne, and despite the worse MPG< I would save on resale. Cayenne diesel seemed perfect. Too good to be true.
It is just so disappointing. The effects on the environment, the lack of trust. I just don't know how this could have happened, and was deemed acceptable in the company. What a disappointment for such a great car company. Love the 911s. Always will. It is just so disappointing.
It is just so disappointing. The effects on the environment, the lack of trust. I just don't know how this could have happened, and was deemed acceptable in the company. What a disappointment for such a great car company. Love the 911s. Always will. It is just so disappointing.
Last edited by sambb; 11-03-2015 at 10:47 PM.
11-03-2015, 10:58 PM
#57
Nordschleife Master
The Cayenne Diesel has a urea injection system (Ad-Blue) and is probably fully compliant with current rules. I would not be surprised if the EPA and CARB are on an additional fishing expedition to hammer another nail on private transportation. Their ultimate agenda is to put all on limited range golf carts and stuff everyone in ultra-dense mega cities. It's an new religion.
11-03-2015, 11:03 PM
#58
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The Cayenne Diesel has a urea injection system (Ad-Blue) and is probably fully compliant with current rules. I would not be surprised if the EPA and CARB are on an additional fishing expedition to hammer another nail on private transportation. Their ultimate agenda is to put all on limited range golf carts and stuff everyone in ultra-dense mega cities. It's an new religion.
I hope they are right and diesels are ok, but how in the heck can we believe them. It is just so confusing. I hope they succeed and all is ok. I wish them well, but they should have never been here to begin with.
11-04-2015, 12:04 AM
#59
Nordschleife Master
I am not sure I agree. VW has admitted that they cheated already on other engines. They are known cheaters by their own admissions. I understand that you are stating that they are probably compliant, but the company has no credibility - they knowingly have cheated for years and years, to the detriment of society. They aren't credible and look what they have ruined. It is disappointing in so many ways.
I hope they are right and diesels are ok, but how in the heck can we believe them. It is just so confusing. I hope they succeed and all is ok. I wish them well, but they should have never been here to begin with.
I hope they are right and diesels are ok, but how in the heck can we believe them. It is just so confusing. I hope they succeed and all is ok. I wish them well, but they should have never been here to begin with.
I am not absolving VW but I would like the EPA to check other brands' compliance too...
To wit... diesel passenger car NOx emmissions accounts for less than 1% of the Nix emmisiions created by trains, truck fleets and industry. As an engineer I would think that even modest NOx reductions in the latter would be more significant than major reductions in the former, but what do I know!
11-04-2015, 12:59 AM
#60
Burning Brakes
the EPA and CARB are on an additional fishing expedition to hammer another nail on private transportation. Their ultimate agenda is to put all on limited range golf carts and stuff everyone in ultra-dense mega cities. It's an new religion.
They simply cannot understand why we're all too ignorant to understand the shining superiority of public transit; similarly, the next step will be to 'introduce', then 'support', then 'suggest', then ultimately mandate self-driving vehicles. Ideally, with the alluring style of a Checker Marathon.
It's just the egalitarian thing to do, is it not so, Comrade Citizen?
As for me: They'll drag my dead a** out of my primitive, overpowered, inefficient manual transmission 911 when they get past the 'optional equipment' in the side pocket provided by my CCW permit.