Brainz

Anyone have any feedback on Carbotech brake pads on their Cayenne? If yes, which compound did you get?

I'm thinking the Bobcat 1521s or the AX6 compound for my daily driven 2006 CTT.

My priorities rank as follows:

1) Near stock cold bite; a longish first stop/heavy pedal is tolerable, but they need to start biting thereafter. Can't scare the wife. Winter temps rarely get below 30f.
2) Better than OEM bite when warm; but not grabby or hard to modulate; capable of hard, aggressive street driving, but won't see track levels of extended abuse.
3) Mostly quiet -- not worried about a soft growl or the occasional squeal
4) Less dust is better, but not at the expense of improved braking performance. Corrosive or hard to clean dust is a big problem -- I can tolerate dirty wheels, but occasionally I'll want to wash them without a bunch of elbow grease.

Thanks

TurboSman

I have the AX6 all around on my 06 CTTS. They're great make sure you get them chamfered. Much better than stock all around. However, they required bedding them in properly and I have had to do it a few times because when they rotors are clean after washing the car or cold they can get loud enough where everyone thinks you need new brakes. I have the AX6 on my CL500 and during the winter they sound like a freight train. Also use better brake fluid when you get these pads bc I've boiled my fluid on the street in my CL with stock fluid but after I changed it to motul I have no issues. I love my Carbotechs and highly recommend them but the AX6 can get loud occasionally especially if cold. But the stopping power is worth it. The 1521 bobcats I've heard are a little better than stock and quiet but the AX6 are true performers. Since they already squeak I would've got XP8 in the fronts and AX6 in the rear if I did it again. Hope this helps

wrinkledpants

The reason our pads dust so bad is because the car brakes consistently in all conditions. Wet, dry, hot cold - it's consistent, quiet braking. When you go with an aftermarket pad, inevitably you'll lean more towards one thing and be less in another. Maybe you give up some wet initial bite, they're louder, need bedding, whatever. Brakes are like tires - there is no magical tire that's great in the snow and at the track.

You're not going to find a better pad than the OEM for daily driving. If you have a specific item you'd like to address, you need to be ready to give up some performance elsewhere. The 6-pot Porsche brakes are some of the best in the biz right out of the box.

I don't know how you could need more stopping power than what the OEM brakes provide. The Cayenne's 60-0 braking distance is exactly the same as the 2004 Audi S4. That's fvcking impressive for a car that weighs 2,000 lbs more with a higher center of gravity.

Brainz

TurboSman: Very helpful. You've pretty much got me sold on the AX6s. Have you noticed any problems cleaning off the dust, or damage to the wheel finish?

WrinkledPants: I hear you on the stock pads. They are a good all round pad, but I'm willing to compromise a bit on first stop bite and noise in wxchange for more warm bite -- dust isn't what concerns me as long as it won't permanently harm the wheel finish (as some track pads are known to do).

While the 350mm brakes on my 2006CTT are good with the stock pads, they are easily outperformed by the even bigger stock brakes on my wife's 2013 GL450 Benz. I suspect Porsche realized that the 955 Cayenne could use a bit more brake bite as they upsized all the brake rotors on the 957s. It'd be interesting to compare the stock 955 vs 957 brakes in terms of feel/pedal effort.

I've done a bunch of research, and a handful of pads seem like they might offer the compromise I'm seeking:

1) Carbotech 1521 Bobcats and AX6s: The online forum reputation of the 1521 pad for street driving is impressive -- people seem to unanimously review them as being as good or better than stock, with low dust -- but there's almost no feedback from SUV/Truck owners.

Aggressive drivers of other vehicles have indicated that the AX6s are even better stopping, but to expect some [tolerable] noise as TurboSman suggests. The XP8s and up are track worthy pads with a great performance reputation, but they don't have a low enough initial temp rating for me to feel comfortable trying them on the street.

2) EBC Yellowstuff -- supposedly close to factory feel when cold, stronger when hot, with much less dust than stock. MtnRat has reported that he likes them. The Yellowstuff compound seems to get similar positive comments from owners of equally sized vehicles on other forums.

3) Hawk HPS 5.0: This compound appears relatively new and seems to be getting good reviews as a low dust, high friction pad that's as good or better than stock. The reviews are better than the older HPS compound, which got mixed reviews. Looks potentially promising.

I'm leaning towards getting the Carbotech AX6s because of their reputation and because if I dont like the noise or dust, I can reportedly change to the 1521s without worrying about pad contamination/compatibility issues.

They Yellowstuffs are my second choice based on MtnRats feedback, but I've been disappointed with EBC pads (not Yellows) on other applications -- they had way less bite than stock.

The HPS 5.0 look interesting, but the pad options above seemed better tested.

Additional thoughts/experiences are welcome.

mtnrat

Better check on my feed back. Never had anything but stock.

Brainz

Whoops! Sorry MtnRat, it was Hahnmgh63 that has likes his Yellowstuffs, not you. Appears my stock memory needs an upgrade too... 😳

J'sWorld

I have had the ebc Red and Yellowstuff on my 04 ctt. The Red was absolutely terrible. I'm very happy with the Yellow. Good compromise of rotor wear, dust, and performance for an aggressive street driver. I have had zero issues with noise. I wanted to try the Carbotech but could not justify the price.

MJG911

I don't run Carbotechs on the street, but I do use their XP12s on my racecar. Regarding dust, they really don't dust bad at all for a true track pad. WHen I swap wheels they usually aren't that dirty.

Also, you can order the pads from carbotech pre-bedded. I always order directly from them. Give them a call and ask some questions, they are a really friendly family that own and run the company.

TurboSman

No problems with dust washes right off the wheel not aggressive at all but they do dust more than stock. The reason the AX6 pad is a better choice is the cayenne is very heavy and the pads heat up quickly on our particular vehicle. Once heated they are VERY impressive. I don't know about having them "pre-bedded" because the whole point of bedding the brakes is to transfer the brake material to your rotor. But as I mentioned before have them chamfered by Carbotech it makes a difference with noise

Brainz

MrHaney: Thanks for the note. I second your experience with Redstuff -- I put Reds on an XC90 I used to own and they were horrible -- almost no stopping power even after bedding. Like you, I've decided (for now) to try the lower cost Yellowstuffs before moving to the Carbotechs (if I'm not happy with Yellows). The cost of a pair of Yellows was about 1/2 that of the AX6s, so I could buy a front set of AX6s for and still break even if the Yellows don't get the job done. I'm pairing them with new StopTech slotted rotors and Motul RBF600 fluid. Will report back after I get them installed.

Brainz

MJG911 and TurboSman: Thanks very much for your feedback -- it's consistent with what's been reported for other vehicles. As per above, I've decided to try the Yellowstuffs for cost reasons, but I'll quickly step up to the AX6s if the Yellows aren't doing it for me.

WrinkledPants: I'm beginning to suspect that some of my mediocre braking I've experienced with the stock pads may actually be worn out brake fluid, i.e., pedal isn't as firm as I'd like and there's a slight delay on braking if I get on the brakes hard/fast. I replaced the brake fluid with SuperBlue about 2 years ago, but I can't remember whether it was from a brand new can, or from an older (unopened) can I had in the garage stash. In any case, if I can find the time, I'll try to bleed the brakes separately from changing the rotors/pads. Would be an interesting test of fluids vs pads.

ckarlos

Had the yellow pads, and they were a bit better than the stock. There's a squeak a few times in the first 100 miles but that went away.

Brainz

So it's been about 2.5 years since I asked for brake pad opinions. I ultimately went with EBC Yellows, Stoptech slotted rotors, and Motul 600 RBF. I've got ~15k miles with this setup.

My experience:
EBC Yellows - - Acceptable pad. Reasonable price. Friction coefficient is rated EE. Slightly less cold bite than stock, but not scary, decent when warmed up when compared to stock. Good heat tolerance, gets a little stronger when hot. Very smooth, linear feel. Quiet. Maybe less dusty than stock, but definitely not low dust. I still don't like the emergency feel - - there's a fraction of a second of slip before the braking begins. It's not a fluid thing, as the fluid was replaced.

Stoptech slotted rotors - - Nice quality rotors. Would recommend. Has nice black coating on the hubs to resist corrosion. I didn't notice any noise from the slots. Wet or dry braking felt consistent.

600 RBF - - Nice firm feel when flushed and bled. Probably time for a refresh, but holding up fine.

And now for my real update: I ditched the EBC Yellows about a month ago and went with Stoptech Street Performance pads.

Stoptech Street Performance (SSP) pads: Similar cold bite as the EBC Yellows - - maybe a bit better actually. But a couple stops later, the SSPs are much stronger/better. Friction coefficient is rated FF, so they definitely have more bite. And they're cheap - - I paid ~$200 delivered for a f&r set from Rock Auto. And the pads also come with new hardware (springs and pins), but not pad sensors). One moderate stop from highway speed and the bite is really good. Much better than Yellows and stock. You can stop really hard with full four wheel ABS kicking in (something I couldn't get the stock or Yellows to do with good tires on a dry surface). And even better, when warm, the emergency feel/bite is great - - stab the brakes and the pig is instantly decelerated and everything pitched forward (I could never get the stockers or Yellows to do that). The SSPs aren't quite as linear or smooth as the Yellows or stock under hard braking, but they're still acceptable - - they feel grabbier and get moreso as you push harder, but you can still modulate them. But under everyday, moderate braking, they're perfectly smooth and not grabby (but with more bite and a much deeper and easier to apply amount of braking reserves when you get on them). On my closed-course testing loop I was able to confirm that they won't hold up as a track pad - - repeated, full application stops from 80 to 20mph will begin to cook them pretty quick (5 such stops in quick succession), but they're perfectly fine for spirited street driving (hence the name Street Performance?). I don't worry too much about brake dust, but I'd say they're definitely better than stock and maybe better than the Yellows. They're also perfectly quiet, although they do groan a smidge if you apply the pedal just right and let the car creep ever so slightly (it's easy to avoid this narrow situation). For anyone looking for a brake pad upgrade, I would highly recommend trying these pads on a 955. For $200 for all for corners with a hardware kit, what's the risk?

Sadly, I never got to try Carbotechs - - I acknowledge there could be a a better pad out there. But relative to the factory pads or Yellows, I prefer the Stoptechs.

If someone wants my used EBC Yellows (even wear with greater than 50% pad life remaining), I'll send them to you for the cost of shipping. Send me a PM and you can have them. Size is for the 2006 CTT with 350mm fronts and whatever the corresponding rears are.

Brainz

Correction to my above post: the name of the pads I discussed is Stoptech Sport Pads (which is the new name for their Street Performance Pads). The pads start with part number 309.

kenneth_ugalde

Reading your impressions on driving with the Stoptechs, you say they start to cook after about five 80 to 20 aggressive brake applications. Would the OEM pads suffer the same problem or do they hold better in such situation?
I'm sold on the Stoptechs based on your review, except for that detail.