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It's been another month of driving on the Stop Tech Sports, including some higher speed stuff I'll try to give you a sense of where these fall:
They are a FF friction rated pad, so they are have more bite than the EBC Yellows (which are EE). There's no question, I'd pick these pads over EBC Yellows, and I drove the EBC Yellows for 2+ years. In particular, they have more bite than the Yellows in all circumstances. When cold, the ST Sports are adequate -- the first couple stops in the morning will have less bite. But after several low speed stops, or one stop from freeway speeds they'll be warmed up. From there, they have very good bite with good modulation. They feel great with aggressive driving -- no issues in real-world use. And while by no means dust-free, they appear to less dusty than the Yellows, and way better than stock.
Regarding your specific question: I don't know how the factory pads would fare on my "closed course" evaluation circuit. Suffice to say that I've found the shortcomings of lots of brakes (on many different cars) doing numerous back-to-back 80-to-20 stops. 5 stops like that in under a minute will often cook a set of brakes (or the fluid, if not upgraded). So far my real world experience suggests that the Stop Tech Sports are fine for spirited street driving, including triple digit speeds -- but I don't think I'd run them at the track (or run the Cayenne on the track for that matter).
If you've got some time and can wait for me to report back, I'm going to test another pad soon: I found a really cheap deal on the ATE HH rated pads on RockAuto. They were sold under the Beck Arney brand, but the image shows the ATE pad backing (so fingers crossed that's what I get). For less than $60, I couldn't pass what I believe to be the highest (commonly available) friction rated pad for the Pig. I'll install them in a couple weeks and report back. I do expect that they'll dust like a mother.... But we'll see. I hope they're not so grabby as to be difficult to modulate.
Not sure if you saw my other recent post on brake pads in this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...tial-bite.html . It lists some other commonly available pads and may explain why I didn't notice a huge loss of bite when I switched from "stock" to the EBC Yellows. The reason is that it appears that some of the older "stock" pads may have been FF rated Pagids. Today, however, it appears that the stock pads are GG rated Pagids 4668 compound.
In addition to the ATE HH pads I've bought, I'd like to try the ATE FG ceramic pads. I suspect they may be less dusty than the ATE HH and the Pagid GGs, but that's purely speculation without actually trying them. Based on everything I've now researched, I'd generally steer most folks to just buy the Pagid 4668 compound pad. If you don't like that much "bite" (because you think it's too "grabby") or if you're looking to reduce (not eliminate) brake dusting, then I think the Stop Tech Sports are a very good choice.
I don't run Carbotechs on the street, but I do use their XP12s on my racecar. Regarding dust, they really don't dust bad at all for a true track pad. WHen I swap wheels they usually aren't that dirty.
Also, you can order the pads from carbotech pre-bedded. I always order directly from them. Give them a call and ask some questions, they are a really friendly family that own and run the company.
i too use XP12 on one of my cars. I do occasionally have problems with them crumbling.
One thing not mentioned here that you need to read on at the Carbotech website, The are finicky with not being used on a rotor that has already been used with another manufacturer. You can change Carbotech pads from a Carbotech track pad to a Carbotech street pad, but Carbotech will tell you they recommend you start with a fresh rotor and not even consider having the rotors turned if they have been used with another manufacturer . Apparently the transfer layer won’t go down correctly, then you will likely get hot spots and the sensation of the mythical “warped rotors”.
My science experiment Beck Arnley pads showed up from Rock Auto. Instead of the rebranded ATE HH pads shown on the website photo, I received rebranded Jurid FF pads. That's not likely an upgrade and will be sent back for a refund. Interestingly, the pads were E90R certified, again suggesting that original stock pads could be an FF friction rating (not the GG friction rating now available).
The more I drive the Stoptech Sports, the more I like them. They've still get less than 1000 miles on them, so they may be bedding a bit to the used rotors I paired them with. With a couple stops of warm up, they have excellent, confidence inspiring bite. A sudden stab at the pedal grabs hard instantly, not like the EBC Yellows which took a fraction of a second to bite, even when warm. Full ABS stops are no problem - - couldn't do that without serious leg pressure on the EBCs.I'd recommend them unless you want the grabbiest possible pedal, and then [Edited Feb 2019: I no longer feel this way about the ST Sports -- they're better then EBC Yellows, but still too high temperature/low friction a pad for daily driving. See my notes below on the new ATE/Meyle combo.]
I'd buy the Pagid 4668 GGs or maybe the Ate HHs, and expect both to be extremely dusty.
Necro bump to provide an update on my quest for a favorite brake pad for my 2006 CTT. For those who haven't read the history above, I'll summarize my path:
1) Pagids 4668 compound with GG rated fiction compound. These are reportedly the factory pad. I thought they were OK, but they are really dusty and I needed new pads so wanted to try something else.
2) EBC Yellows (EE Rated!) and new slotted rotors and new fluid. Initially thought they were OK, but they really lacked bite. If you warm them up (lots of braking), they do well, but I found them next to impossible to lock up the wheels (i.e., trigger ABS) in city driving. While they were less dusty than the Pagids, they were still very dusty. Wife didn't like them -- said she couldn't stop.
3) Stop Tech Sport Pads. I drove these for about a year. They had better bite than the EBC Yellows, but still not enough bite versus other cars I'd driven. I could trigger ABS, but it took a lot of effort. Wife didn't like them either. Dust was similar to the EBC Yellows (i.e., not horrible, but still dusty).
4) ***NEW*** Front: ATE 604993 -- HH rated -- ~$135; Rear: Meyle D8978SC -- GG rated -- only ~$30! I bought these pads specifically because they had the highest published friction ratings of any pads I could find online. I've driven this set now for about 500 miles and the difference is night and day -- these pads have very good bite (even cold) and can stop hard to the point of being able to easily trigger the ABS on command. But modulation and light braking is still very good -- they're not grabby or too sensitive (like my wife's Mercedes) -- they are much more confidence inspiring in city driving than any of the pads above (especially the Yellows and ST Sports). Based on the driving I've done so far, I expect them to be dusty -- and the dust is more brown colored vs. black/dark gray for Yellows/ST Sports. I expect these pads may also wear the rotors faster -- the Yellows/ST Sports hardly wore the rotors at all.
Here's some pictures of my new / current pads [ATE 604993 front / Meyle D8978SC rear]:
Here's a couple shots of the Stoptech Sports when new:
And here's my old EBC Yellows:
Note that I still have the Yellows and ST Sports (and they have a lot of pad left on them). If anyone wants to try them, they're yours for the cost of shipping.
Necro bump to provide an update on my quest for a favorite brake pad for my 2006 CTT. For those who haven't read the history above, I'll summarize my path:
1) Pagids 4668 compound with GG rated fiction compound. These are reportedly the factory pad. I thought they were OK, but they are really dusty and I needed new pads so wanted to try something else.
2) EBC Yellows (EE Rated!) and new slotted rotors and new fluid. Initially thought they were OK, but they really lacked bite. If you warm them up (lots of braking), they do well, but I found them next to impossible to lock up the wheels (i.e., trigger ABS) in city driving. While they were less dusty than the Pagids, they were still very dusty. Wife didn't like them -- said she couldn't stop.
3) Stop Tech Sport Pads. I drove these for about a year. They had better bite than the EBC Yellows, but still not enough bite versus other cars I'd driven. I could trigger ABS, but it took a lot of effort. Wife didn't like them either. Dust was similar to the EBC Yellows (i.e., not horrible, but still dusty).
4) ***NEW*** Front: ATE 604993 -- HH rated -- ~$135; Rear: Meyle D8978SC -- GG rated -- only ~$30! I bought these pads specifically because they had the highest published friction ratings of any pads I could find online. I've driven this set now for about 500 miles and the difference is night and day -- these pads have very good bite (even cold) and can stop hard to the point of being able to easily trigger the ABS on command. But modulation and light braking is still very good -- they're not grabby or too sensitive (like my wife's Mercedes) -- they are much more confidence inspiring in city driving than any of the pads above (especially the Yellows and ST Sports). Based on the driving I've done so far, I expect them to be dusty -- and the dust is more brown colored vs. black/dark gray for Yellows/ST Sports. I expect these pads may also wear the rotors faster -- the Yellows/ST Sports hardly wore the rotors at all.
Here's some pictures of my new / current pads [ATE 604993 front / Meyle D8978SC rear]:
Here's a couple shots of the Stoptech Sports when new:
And here's my old EBC Yellows:
Note that I still have the Yellows and ST Sports (and they have a lot of pad left on them). If anyone wants to try them, they're yours for the cost of shipping.
Could you give us an update on this combo Brainz? Getting ready to do 4 wheel brakes with the DBA 4x4 Survival slotted rotors( which are awesome!, I picked up several sets on clearance for cheap) on the front and the stock Hella/Pagid rotors on the rear. I'm kinda like you in that I want it all but what is most important is being able to haul the pig down from triple digit speeds repeatedly without toasting the brakes. I've pretty much given up on the dust.
The current combo: Front: ATE 604993 -- HH rated / Rear: Meyle D8978SC -- GG rated is (IMO) probably as good as you're going to get on the 955s with the 350mm brake setup without spending $$$ on Carbotech or other track-focused custom pads (and I suspect those pads will come with trade-offs that make them undesirable for my daily driving purposes). This setup continues to feel very good: Good bite, good when cold, great modulation, and good ability to trigger ABS without herculean leg strength (my braking is now tire limited). It's not up to the braking feel of my 997TT which has similarly sized brakes as the PIG, but only has 60% of the weight to stop, but that's not a fair comparison. And while it's not a big concern of mine, the dust isn't too bad (better than stock, but definitely not dust free either). For less than $200 for pads for all 4 corners, it's a good deal and I recommend it for most 955s with the 350mm brake setup.
For your application (repeated high speed stops), I can't help but wonder if a BBK is in your future. On my closed course brake testing facility I've noticed pedal softness and some pulsing/pad transfer of every pad listed above if you do repeated (5 or more) stops from triple digits. It could just be fluid, but there's a lot of heat being generated with a car this heavy -- it quickly turns the rotors blue. The usual things would help: better ducting (for cooling), and better fluid (something super high temp like SRF) -- but if that doesn't solve the heat issue, the next step is bigger rotors (more mass) . Note that this criticism is for highly abusive brake testing -- not anything I've ever encountered in regular driving no matter how aggressive. I've not tried the brakes on a CTTS, they may be better suited to your needs (due to massive rotors).
If you're interested, I can send you my old EBC Yellows and ST Sport pads -- they've got 1/2 pad life or more on each set and are only collecting dust in my garage. While I find them inferior for daily driving (due to low friction coefficient / poor bite at normal temps), some here believe that the EBCs are a higher heat pad that do well for towing and mountain driving (and possibly for repeated higher speed stops). Let me know and I'll retrieve them from my Empire of Dirt.
The current combo: Front: ATE 604993 -- HH rated / Rear: Meyle D8978SC -- GG rated is (IMO) probably as good as you're going to get on the 955s with the 350mm brake setup without spending $$$ on Carbotech or other track-focused custom pads (and I suspect those pads will come with trade-offs that make them undesirable for my daily driving purposes). This setup continues to feel very good: Good bite, good when cold, great modulation, and good ability to trigger ABS without herculean leg strength (my braking is now tire limited). It's not up to the braking feel of my 997TT which has similarly sized brakes as the PIG, but only has 60% of the weight to stop, but that's not a fair comparison. And while it's not a big concern of mine, the dust isn't too bad (better than stock, but definitely not dust free either). For less than $200 for pads for all 4 corners, it's a good deal and I recommend it for most 955s with the 350mm brake setup.
For your application (repeated high speed stops), I can't help but wonder if a BBK is in your future. On my closed course brake testing facility I've noticed pedal softness and some pulsing/pad transfer of every pad listed above if you do repeated (5 or more) stops from triple digits. It could just be fluid, but there's a lot of heat being generated with a car this heavy -- it quickly turns the rotors blue. The usual things would help: better ducting (for cooling), and better fluid (something super high temp like SRF) -- but if that doesn't solve the heat issue, the next step is bigger rotors (more mass) . Note that this criticism is for highly abusive brake testing -- not anything I've ever encountered in regular driving no matter how aggressive. I've not tried the brakes on a CTTS, they may be better suited to your needs (due to massive rotors).
If you're interested, I can send you my old EBC Yellows and ST Sport pads -- they've got 1/2 pad life or more on each set and are only collecting dust in my garage. While I find them inferior for daily driving (due to low friction coefficient / poor bite at normal temps), some here believe that the EBCs are a higher heat pad that do well for towing and mountain driving (and possibly for repeated higher speed stops). Let me know and I'll retrieve them from my Empire of Dirt.
Bigger brakes are for sure in my future. I am looking into a larger front setup and moving the fronts to the rear. Agree with everything you have said. I have a set of half used yellows also. While they work well they kinda miss the boat everywhere. If you don't have some heat in them they are numb and if you get too much the pad material cracks and the rotors blue because the compound is not abrasive enough to keep the rotors clean. I think you are right on the rotor size and the only solution I can think of would be something very aggressive. Drawbacks there is chewing up the rotors and damaging the wheel/finish with shrapnel.
I have driven the turbo S 380mm and they are good. But, service costs are too high for what you get. Availability of rotors and pad choices makes them pretty much worthless junk in my book. I can get a really nice set of PB's with 405mm 2 piece rotors for ~$2250 and those combined with moving the fronts to the rear would probably be pretty epic.
Right now I think the ATE/Meyle combo is a winner based on price point and performance. Will they pull enough heat out for 1 or two high speed stops with plenty of time to cool?
Will they pull enough heat out for 1 or two high speed stops with plenty of time to cool?
In my experience, the ATE/Meyle combo will get 2 - 3 back-to-back stops from 100 mph without issue (which you can do inside of 1 minute, BTW). They'll actually do a little better on stops 2 and 3 as you get some heat in them. But energy is the square of velocity, so you may be done after only 1 or 2 stops from 150mph -- don't know, never gone that fast in the PIG.
And agreed on the CTTS brakes -- they seem expensive for what they are -- might as well get a real BBK with cheap consumables. If the CTTS rotors were priced right ($150 ea), they'd be a no-brainer upgrade.
One other thing: Brake ducts might help without breaking the budget -- the Cayennes aren't nearly as well ducted as the 911s are and the track guys report big differences in brake temperatures between the Carrera ducts and the GT3 ducts which are about twice the area.
In my experience, the ATE/Meyle combo will get 2 - 3 back-to-back stops from 100 mph without issue (which you can do inside of 1 minute, BTW). They'll actually do a little better on stops 2 and 3 as you get some heat in them. But energy is the square of velocity, so you may be done after only 1 or 2 stops from 150mph -- don't know, never gone that fast in the PIG.
And agreed on the CTTS brakes -- they seem expensive for what they are -- might as well get a real BBK with cheap consumables. If the CTTS rotors were priced right ($150 ea), they'd be a no-brainer upgrade.
One other thing: Brake ducts might help without breaking the budget -- the Cayennes aren't nearly as well ducted as the 911s are and the track guys report big differences in brake temperatures between the Carrera ducts and the GT3 ducts which are about twice the area.
Perfect. I think I am going to copy you and give them a try. Hard to lose @ that pricing. Speaking of ducts, I have two unused side inter-cooler ducts that catch a ton of air.
In my experience, the ATE/Meyle combo will get 2 - 3 back-to-back stops from 100 mph without issue (which you can do inside of 1 minute, BTW). They'll actually do a little better on stops 2 and 3 as you get some heat in them. But energy is the square of velocity, so you may be done after only 1 or 2 stops from 150mph -- don't know, never gone that fast in the PIG.
And agreed on the CTTS brakes -- they seem expensive for what they are -- might as well get a real BBK with cheap consumables. If the CTTS rotors were priced right ($150 ea), they'd be a no-brainer upgrade.
One other thing: Brake ducts might help without breaking the budget -- the Cayennes aren't nearly as well ducted as the 911s are and the track guys report big differences in brake temperatures between the Carrera ducts and the GT3 ducts which are about twice the area.
tks for sharing your experience, im gonna try this kit ATE 604993 + meyle D8978SC
Let us know what you think. I'm still a big fan of the combo. Very good braking, less dust than stock.
here in brazil is very hard to find parts(almost chinese trash)... imagine good parts!!! i really appreciate this forum, you guys post your experience and its help me a lot!!!
can you please advise break pads and disks for 2009 Cayenne Base...looking for optimal option for safe driving in the city and sometimes at speed 100-130 km/hr on the highway roads.
Let us know what you think. I'm still a big fan of the combo. Very good braking, less dust than stock.
This is a very good combo. I haven't pushed them to the point of complete fade to see how they rebound. Very strong braking with dust that is not highly corrosive like some others and cleans easily.
They definitely dust less than stock, and the dust cleans easily. I had 3 or 4 months (probably 2-3k miles) of dust on my wheels recently - - they looked dirty, but not black. The dust is a brownish gray. A trip through the cheapie auto-wash cleaned 95% of the dust off. A quick wipe with a rag would get the rest.
04-23-2018, 03:28 PM
