nodoors

Not to pick on you, but HP/L is the most overhyped AND worthless stat to compare the performance or reliability between two engines of differing displacement.

Decreasing the weight of the rotating parts, size of the piston, length of the stroke, and favored valve timing for higher revving is naturally going to increase the hp/L. Generally people bringing up a car's hp/L neglect to mention that the low range is torqueless and no fun to drive on the street - unless we are talking about something like open class sportbike or dirtbike engines, both of which are closer to the 200hp/L mark and have crazy high power to weight ratios... so what, right?!

I think it would be better to compare the turbo 4.5L and 4.8L Porsche engines to something like a BMW or GM V8 for reliability and performance. I hate to say it guys, but the GM V8's are going to win hands down in almost every category. The problem is the rest of the vehicle built around those great motors is much lower quality. We are seeing some of the same start to happen with Porsche and their regrettable use of cheap plastic and rubber with important things like the coolant lines and tee's (on turbos) or the really shoddy cardan shaft support.

There are some major trade offs that the euro cars make and we as buyers have supported for years. The main one I would like to point out would be in the reliability vs. perceived quality and feel of the vehicle:

Engine mount and suspension bushings

On average people are replacing engine mounts and bushings far, far, far more often in european vehicles than they are in american or japanese cars. The trade off is a smoother and better 'feeling' car from idling at the stop light to driving over cobblestone roads. Among many others differences, these rubber fancier rubber pieces (like the overly sophisticated yet doomed for early failure Cayenne engine mounts) are going to make you love driving the smooth car until they give out.

Having owned and driven many vehicles, I must say it is worth the extra money and effort to have a smooth idle and supple suspension dynamics if you can afford to own vehicles with fresh pieces in them, but you have to know going in that these are wear and tear items that fail much sooner in german, swedish, etc. cars than the comparable parts made of harder and crappier riding materials in those found in the US and Japan engine mount and suspension designs.

Engine mounts and suspensions bushings are a very specific choice where you either get reliability or ride quality. I think most of us on here choose ride quality AND complain about the lack of reliability.

With that said, Porsche has **** the bed with many design aspects of the Cayenne. They took way too long to address (or not) a long list of things that never should have happened. I love it anyways.

996tnz

Very true. Drove a friend's S2000 and it was massive fun, with him yelling "don't change, don't change, revs! revs!' as we flew along a winding, well-sighted country road. Then we almost died pulling across an intersection from a stop as there really is just nobody home in the engine department until the revs are well up beyond most normal cars. FWIW, that drive experience got me looking for a torqueyer roadster. Then, looking for Boxsters, I tested a 996 Carrera that had an engine fault - which led me to buy the 996 Turbo instead. Really enjoyed the drive in the S2000 and still impressed by them, but launching them hard at high revs to get them moving could get old quick around town.

Thanks NoDoors. Hadn't considered that tradeoff in the bushings and mounts, but failed transmission mounts on my 996T apparently contributed to it having needed a transmission rebuild at 60K miles, so the consequences can be quite big at times. Should check them on the Cayenne...

BIG smoke

All car companies have their issues. My 5 year old BMW X5 has been in the shop for 1oo day as of today, this year.
Rear door handle is draining the battery for this past 14 day stay. They are changing out another two, when they come in, in 5-10 business day.

Dozens of complaint calls into BMW head office. Five phone calls this week into the dealer principal. Still nothing. No action is not an option.
Germans don't like being told about problems. What I hope they hate is embarrassment.

Some may find this funny, or a ******** move. I sent my car balloons at the dealership yesterday. I better check for bombs.... They are not happy with me. To note ... still no principal phone call after 36 hours. They have my number.

996tnz

Absolutely brilliant on the balloons front! And much cheaper than smashing your car to pieces in public as some frustrated euro car owners have done. I take it you don't have a lemon law where you are, so you can't just throw the car back at them?

Postnote: just saw it is 5 years old, so that woudn't be an option for you anyway. Dispute bills and take it to an independent repairer instead perhaps?

docwyte

Can't you lemon law the car and force them to buy it back?

Dan87951

I'm not surprised at all! That's BMW ownership for you. I have been down that road and haven't bought another BMW since. Actually, our first BMW was our last BMW. Every once in a while i'll think about getting another one and my wife brings me back to reality. IMO you cannot daily drive a German car without having a backup daily on hand -- preferably made by a Japanese manufacture. There was a time when the German's built a quality car but not anymore.

TexasRider

Dragggin this back to the top.

We are seriously looking at ordering a new 2018 Cayenne for Mrs TR. She has a 2014 BlueTec ML 350 that has been very reliable so far. It had one warranty repair for the main nav screen, and it just had rear brakes at 50,000 miles. Other than that fluids and A and B services. As it was we get those Free for the Lifetime that we own this MB as it was a deal at the time we purchased it. So the $500 A service and the $1000-1200 B services at the dealer is no costs to us.

The only other SUV she liked on test was the Range Rover Sport. Range Rover has improved but that always could be problems.

Our Porsche dealer at Porsche North Houston is just tops. Probably the best thing we have going for us if problems arise.

But reading in these threads has started to make me a bit growly. Of course everyones experience is different. I don't mind sports car maintenance and fixes. Ive been around Porsche for quite a while now and currently have a 2016 981 Cayman S in the garage. I wanted the 6 cylinder before that was ended and the 718 arrived.

But for ladies driving these and doing work and home and kid activities, and as long as the Cayenne has been out in its various models , I don't exactly know what to think about this. I want to put her in it and drive it and of course be safe and a nice SUV too. Sure Ill service it. But I don't want lots of issues. And I don't want to be on RL looking and hoping for recalls.

Things like camshafts , differentials, transfer cases and gearboxes seem out of place for the style of driving and use most of these Cayennes see.

Sure you can say well others don't have soul, ok. Or that you don't understand the car - I darn sure do. Im an engineer so I have seen a few mechanical things and I raced half a lifetime. You make a few adjustments and changes and fixes in that.

I also understand that these Cayennes in the regular models, not in turbos etc, are generally designed, built, and sold with the idea of regular urban and suburban SUV use.

I'm steeped in Stuttgart.

But I'm going to have some reading and head scratching to do before we order one and then go to Leipzig to get it I see. It is surprising really.

I wonder what per cent of the total all this composes? I am going to go have a coffee with the Porsche Service Manager too.

Snipe656

I went from a 2013 ML350 Bluetec to a 2015 Cayenne S because I wanted something more "fun to drive" after the ML was stolen. I put close to 30k miles on the ML without a single problem. I did not have 6k miles on my Cayenne before I knew the names of service guys and mechanics at all three Houston dealerships by 8k miles I was on a first name basis with the Porsche North America regional technical manager. I would happily go back to a Mercedes had they not stopped selling mid sized SUV diesels and also kept that V6 engine. The Cayenne handles/stops magnitudes better and more power when you really get on it but that ML moved really very quickly for most Day to day driving due to the stupid torque and so low in the band, my Cayenne has to downshift multiple times to move how I want it to in some day to day scenarios whereas my ML usually did not even downshift. Oh, I could not to this day tell you the name of one person at the Mercedes dealership and we still own a Mercedes sedan nor have I ever had problems that resulted in needing a mechanic to ride along let alone a problem that had me on the phone with MBUSA let alone meeting a person from it.

When my warranty is up I might give a GLE43 a chance. Sure it will not be as engaging but if it means not dealing with so many problems then I am fine.

TexasRider

Thanks man.

Her ML has excellent get up and go especially for a diesel. Like the proposed future Cayenne we ordered it the way she wanted it and although my sales manger here wasn't so sure about the diesel ( he was worried about codes) none of that materialized to date.

It is comfortable and was more so than the Cayenne for her at that time. The ML gets 30 mpg loaded with me at the wheel going 80 plus to San Antonio. And it handled some rough weather well too.

So in my Porsche mind , the Cayenne would be more, only better. And last week we test drove a Cayenne Platinum at Porsche North and she liked it too.

Working in the oil fields of Texas and in most places around the world too, I knew MB knows how to build a diesel. So we gave it a shot to see if it was the same in this size range. If I went to Porsche now , and while they have the VW diesel background all over the world except not so much here, Id be looking at gas. Not because of that stupid bureaucrat emission thing ongoing because that should have been over long ago. But because MB has lots of diesel experience and tech and Porsche's strong suit is gas in my mind. Regardless. I assumed with low stress operating , and not much real strain on the Cayenne's driven to schools, work, horse riding, malls and the store, and a few trips , so its going to be across the boards 5 stars. Alas I got a jolt.

With that I decided to have a round here at RL in the Cayenne Forum. I have to say I was a little surprised as I indicated above. The Cayenne is the vehicle that saved and rebuilt Porsche or at least started it back to where it is today.

I know our forum, and the internet forums in general, are not where guys come to say I had zero complaints with my German Built Extra Especiale and it is perfect in every way.

I was expecting to see tires and brakes and the costs of services and of course I knew about the coolant pipes. But major mechanical systems failures weren't in my mind for any reason on these Cayennes. Not at 100,000 miles , and maybe not at 200,000 miles. Yeah she may never see that mileage , but it still is achievable in the light duty the majority of these vehicles see. I have had some of my vehicles do much better than this and I was going 60,000 miles a year and rough service too.

The cargo size is important for her. Her and Missy TR load it up for the horse show and other girls stuff too. A Macan or a F Pace just won't do it. So we have had a variety of full size SUVs up to the Cadillac Escalade, and now on to the Porsche, which I was expecting to be the best of all. It may yet be - but it warrants some other consideration I see.

I see the JD Powers surveys and even filled them out for my new Caymans S. Somehow what I see here doesn't exactly reconcile with that. My buddies theorize that Porsche owners just don't complain and as such it gets high ratings. I know thats not true and the owners today aren't the same as the 1980s owners. Im not buying these on ratings, but some of these things are worth knowing and seeing if they have been remedied before ordering a new Cayenne.

Snipe656

I am actually a huge diesel fan and this is the first time in my life I do not own a single diesel powered vehicle. I usually owned a few at one time, I think the fuel type is successfully being killed off here in the states with exception of heavy duty trucks and now that I live in the city limits I have no plans to go back to a 3/4 ton diesel truck as a daily driver. It is a shame, as bad as my experience has been with Porsche I'd still probably gone to a new diesel Cayenne had they been available in current year models. I actually ended up buying a Cayenne S because at time was not going to get a 4 cylinder diesel ML(GLE) and thought I will pay more and go with a diesel Cayenne. Only then did I find out about the stop on selling them due "dieselgate going on", that is when decided perhaps time to try for a more fun daily driver.

Interior size of the Cayenne is smaller than the ML, it becomes very obvious if you start packing things in both. I forgot how much of a difference it was until a few weeks ago when I was put into a 2017 GLE350 loaner vehicle. It is even noticeable in the front passenger part of the vehicle, all it takes is having two passengers with coffee and wanting to sit their cell phones in the center console area to realize how much difference between the ML(GLE) and Cayenne there is.

Your buddies maybe hit the nail on the head. Even on this forum I am surprised at what people privately have said about their vehicles v. what they post up. It might be that way for a lot of brands though and nothing to do with this brand. As far as surveys go, I do not trust those for any purchase, I used to and resulted in much less than expected experience with Honda some 15-20 years ago.

BTW good choice with using Porsche North Houston, after experiencing all of the dealerships through my ordeal they to me were exceptional in how they handle things. They are 25-30 miles away from my home and a huge PITA to get to/from there on week days but still the only ones I will go to. I actually pass Porsche West Houston when going to work and I live within shuttle range of Momentum, not going to use them ever again.

docwyte

Dunno. Mine has been pretty darn reliable. Mostly just regular maintenance items, has ~134k miles on it now.

Almost all the known 955 foibles got fixed by the previous owner. I had to fix the torque convertor seal right after I bought it. (Bought it with a bad seal unknowingly). After that, oil, gas, brakes, just pro actively did the water pump...

TexasRider

Good data point doc. ^

Thanks - and I see at one time or another we have owned the same Porsches and motorcycles. all of us kind of guys got to stick together.

You other Pig owners weigh on in here!

TexasRider

And there is isn't any thing wrong with her MB. Heck it could probably go 250,000 miles on that diesel. The rest of the car ehhh who knows.

Its just that Porsche guys want Porsche. Or they think they do until they get their butts kicked good.

Her OEM MB warranty is up as I didn't buy the shafter extended warranty at the time. I mean if you ad 5 for wheels, 5 for prepaid services, 5 or more for extended warranty - in a while you are almost up to a base level Porsche.

Philip Goughary

As far as I've been able to tell trolling the forums, the only mechanical issue remaining for the current production Cayenne is the transfer case. As I know you've also read, Porsche has completely redesigned that equipment, replacing failed cases under warrantee on a case by case basis with the new parts. Given that, I would hope that the 2018 models are being built with the new equipment.

As far as personal experience is concerned, I can tell you this: I love my 2016 Turbo and I treat it with the respect it deserves; but, I drive it very, very hard whenever the opportunity arrises. I'm consistently amazed at how much sports car there is to be found in such a large, heavy machine. With all of the mashing of the throttle, slamming of the brakes, and squealing of tires I've put it through, the Cayenne just laughs and asks for more. I haven't had a single issue other than burning too much fuel and rubber. We also towed a 6,000 pound rig with it up to COTA a few months back. Towed like a dream. It was effortless.

You and your wife are welcome to drive it anytime you'd like, my friend. I think that she'll be very happy in a Cayenne.

The only issue to keep in mind is that a new model is imminent.

TexasRider

Hey I was thinking about PM- ing you anyway ^.

Y'all going to the Garage dinner next Saturday?

Or heck that come down and ride a horse invitation is still open ya know.

Mrs TR said something like " Well I want to go to Germany to see my new car made. .". Im thinking thats a hint.

She drove a Cayenne a while at Porsche North last week and they were extra nice and offered her one for a day - so we will do that. Of course , it ain't one like yours . . exactly.

North said it appears that the 2018 will be a split model with the original 18s being the same as the current one. Then a 2018.2 will start up. So we would likely wait and order that.

Thanks Philip.