Porsche Cayenne Reliability and Problems
#61
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spring Lake, NJ, US of A
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How could Porsche not see this weak link in the drivetrain during testing? This was obviously designed as a big money maker for them but it only showed their incompetence in not being able to design a simple bearing support for a driveshaft. Apparently zip ties and coolant hoses hold up better than the original design, which isn't exactly confidence inspiring that they know what there doing over in Stuttgart.
Engineering fooked up. They seem to have done better on the 958 series. It happens. The bearing support seems more effected by time than miles - and that's a lot harder to test for - it's difficult to put "time" on a part.
And the Jimi fix hasn't proven superior to the factory design - yet. I believe the most I've heard of someone having on it is around 15,000 miles or so. I know of no one who had the shaft bearing support die at 15,000 miles. Mine made it to 10 years and around 85,000 miles. Funny thing is - the battery in the P!G was still the original (and still is as far as I know..) so some parts are quite long lasting. Others not so much.
#62
Rennlist Member
Whelp... had a small problem on my 958. Only issue aside from a small emissions problem that you may have heard about.... on 3rd clock, but i've a drivers seatbelt receptacle that latches about 50% of the time. Doesn't come loose once locked but dealer has a new one coming.
This car has been rock solid reliable, just had 35k mile oil change done.
This car has been rock solid reliable, just had 35k mile oil change done.
#63
Intermediate
The Cardan shaft is next up for me... But at 127k so .... over all pretty reliable for what I put it through.
#64
I see the point just fine. There's also the coolant pipes and T in the 955, the IMS bearing in the 996, the thrust bearing issues in the auto 928s, and on and on.
The engineering failures from Stuttgart are numerous, and rarely acknowledged.
Fortunately, there's a fairly large enthusiast community to come up with fixes and "workarounds" for these issues.
The engineering failures from Stuttgart are numerous, and rarely acknowledged.
Fortunately, there's a fairly large enthusiast community to come up with fixes and "workarounds" for these issues.
#65
Nordschleife Master
Actually Porsche plastic quality is about the same as any German car today.
BMWs regularly require entire cooling systems to be replaced due to plastic tanks on the radiators leaking right through the plastic.. I've had a plastic thermostat housing spring a leak in the middle of the plastic casting. No crack, no visible flaw, no impact, just fakakata plastic.
I do agree - metal castings seemed a much better idea IMHO for many applications - but the cost advantage (which equals profit) of a plastic casting vs a metal one means we're not going to be seeing much metal in the future.
In some uses plastic is fine or even an improvement over a metal casting (intake manifold comes to mind.. easy to have a smooth interior surface, no need to port/polish) other spots I think it's a mistake (plastic impellers on water pumps for instance.. a famous BMW failure point). Beauty trim - it's fine. Anything structural is questionable.
Ah well, starting to sound like the old phart I am..
Oh yeah - my wife also drives a Lexus. That is after listening to complaints for the 5 years she drove the BMW 5-touring..
BMWs regularly require entire cooling systems to be replaced due to plastic tanks on the radiators leaking right through the plastic.. I've had a plastic thermostat housing spring a leak in the middle of the plastic casting. No crack, no visible flaw, no impact, just fakakata plastic.
I do agree - metal castings seemed a much better idea IMHO for many applications - but the cost advantage (which equals profit) of a plastic casting vs a metal one means we're not going to be seeing much metal in the future.
In some uses plastic is fine or even an improvement over a metal casting (intake manifold comes to mind.. easy to have a smooth interior surface, no need to port/polish) other spots I think it's a mistake (plastic impellers on water pumps for instance.. a famous BMW failure point). Beauty trim - it's fine. Anything structural is questionable.
Ah well, starting to sound like the old phart I am..
Oh yeah - my wife also drives a Lexus. That is after listening to complaints for the 5 years she drove the BMW 5-touring..
I see the point just fine. There's also the coolant pipes and T in the 955, the IMS bearing in the 996, the thrust bearing issues in the auto 928s, and on and on.
The engineering failures from Stuttgart are numerous, and rarely acknowledged.
Fortunately, there's a fairly large enthusiast community to come up with fixes and "workarounds" for these issues.
The engineering failures from Stuttgart are numerous, and rarely acknowledged.
Fortunately, there's a fairly large enthusiast community to come up with fixes and "workarounds" for these issues.
#66
Instructor
Therein you state the problem. It's one thing to have a community there to help folks diagnose unusual problems or newbies with maintenance. It should not be to help fix problems that never should have occurred.
#67
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spring Lake, NJ, US of A
Posts: 10,085
Received 1,160 Likes
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If you want interesting to drive and "interesting"* to own - euro cars.
If you just want to drive - Japanese, specifically Lexus.
* = "interesting" not in a good way, like the Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times.."
#68
Instructor
It's the nature of the beast.. every euro car forum I know of tends to have a lot of activity on how to fix the damn things.. and a Lexus forum I joined is primarily about "where to hide the owners manual" "what's in your glovebox?" "do you drive with the sunroof open or closed" sort of posts. Totally boring.
#69
I kinda disagree, if you want a vehicle that will be a 20 min a day commuting vehicle, that barely gets up to operating temp, you shouldn't be driving a performance vehicle, you should be in a yaris or corolla. These vehicles are designed to be on the highway at high speeds until the tank is empty. Not puttering around town barely getting used. A Porsche is a long distance marathon runner, not a soccer mom or dad.... going from point a to point b and sitting around all day. It's like your body, no exercise... it's going to fall apart and not perform as expected.
Buy a yaris or corolla not a performance vehicle . Now that is the truth...
Buy a yaris or corolla not a performance vehicle . Now that is the truth...
FWIW- if I have a choice to buy a used car - I will by the one that spends its time on the highway at high speed as you describe over the one that "putters around town"
#70
Instructor
Most Cayennes around here are glorified soccer mom mobiles that I doubt see a total of 20 miles a day. I get rather baffled looks from the service departments when they notice how quickly I rack the miles on mine and I am driving a lot less these days than past years. Just a damn shame mine stops making boost most of the time after driving around 40 miles and only response I can get from dealers after months of fighting is "the factory should have a software fix 'soon'".
#71
Some individual cars are just cursed though, and yours could be something as simple as an unseen wiring loom shorting or whatever, while workshops keep replacing bits in an effort to sort it.
#72
It's the nature of the beast.. every euro car forum I know of tends to have a lot of activity on how to fix the damn things.. and a Lexus forum I joined is primarily about "where to hide the owners manual" "what's in your glovebox?" "do you drive with the sunroof open or closed" sort of posts. Totally boring.
If you want interesting to drive and "interesting"* to own - euro cars.
If you just want to drive - Japanese, specifically Lexus.
* = "interesting" not in a good way, like the Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times.."
If you want interesting to drive and "interesting"* to own - euro cars.
If you just want to drive - Japanese, specifically Lexus.
* = "interesting" not in a good way, like the Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times.."
I keep reading comments like this, but why can't we expect a totally fun car to drive that has soul and reliability? The two are not mutually exclusive. And when you are paying $60k + for a new car you should be able to expect top notch reliability. Just saying "you gotta accept the problems to have a car that's fun to drive" is nonsense. Good engineering can produce a car that is exciting to drive and completely boring when it comes to maintenance.
And because regulation. Safety and environmental (fuel economy) regulatory requirements are preventing the kind of solid over-engineering that was once the norm for Porsche. More safety typically means adding weight (plus reducing driver control), but fuel economy standards push for lower weights. So non safety critical parts are put on a crash diet. Cue more stressed plastic parts (coolant pipes, door stays etc) to save weight where it's not safety critical. Exciting, safe, fuel-efficient, reliable, cheap - pick any four at most. Of course if we were willing to pay twice as much to have twice the reliability that would play to Porsche's traditional strengths, but very few of us would take them up on that (and the same temptation would remain for them to just put up a credible show and pocket the difference).
Also, because sales competition and media. It may seem that reliability is a sales trump card, and it is certainly helpful, but it is also quite a fragile marketing platform. Look at the hit Toyota took recently with recalls.
Perceived safety, the driving experience, utility, and any prestige value hit harder in the showrooms, in advertising and in new car reviews. So when a company like Porsche has a choice of spending R&D on either a better driving experience, cheaper manufacturing, or higher reliability one of those first two will normally get the nod.
Lastly, reliability is a two-edged sword for a car company. Perhaps not as much as with computers, but higher maintenance and repair costs on the existing steed often drive new car purchases. And if they stubbornly stick with the old, aftermarket parts and servicing is a profitable business in its own right - so why cut off your own nose?
Now Porsche almost died earlier in the 90's due to insufficient focus on profitability, so it's perhaps just been forgivable over-compensation on that front. Personally, I'd happily live with a few continued reliability fiascos (they seem to have relatively few failures but boy are the common ones doozys) if Porsche weren't becoming more and more like Lexus on the driving front instead. Most of the decline is pushed along by those same safety and environmental pressures of course (and supercharged by US litigation) but I like my sportscars to be responsive, not obstructive. Which - for me - means a proper handbrake that can be used on the move, fully defeatable stability control, gas and brake available together for balancing the car in corner with both feet, no artificial lag on throttle lift, no 'brake assistance' messing with my inputs, no artificial gas pedal response flat spots etc, and no 'ice mode' that cuts braking to something like 20 or 30% max when the car decides it's on ice (even if actually approaching turn one on a race track).
All just in my opinion of course. Porsche I do love you, really I do. Now if only the real Porsche would just please step back out from behind the curtain...
#73
Rennlist Member
Note on 05 Turbo headlight wiring. Picked up a new to me 05 CT and within a month the headlights went out. Had to get new headlight assemblies and the short wiring harnesses for both. The wire insulation was dried out and falling off. Googled and found most HID headlights not just Porsche made in the mid 2000's have the same problems. HID Headlights getting hotter than wiring was designed for.
#74
Rennlist Member
Note on 05 Turbo headlight wiring. Picked up a new to me 05 CT and within a month the headlights went out. Had to get new headlight assemblies and the short wiring harnesses for both. The wire insulation was dried out and falling off. Googled and found most HID headlights not just Porsche made in the mid 2000's have the same problems. HID Headlights getting hotter than wiring was designed for.
#75
I have a Cayenne Diesel that I got new in September 2015, right before the VW diesel scandal. It was made to my specs.
So right now, it is almost 14 months old (with about 24k miles on it). I have been back to the dealership for warranty repairs about 10 or 15 times. Honestly, it's been so many times that I have lost count.
As a point of comparison, I bought a new Acura RDX (2015 model year) for my wife a few months before I got this Cayenne. The Acura has not had a single problem. Let me make that more clear--I have not been back to the Acura dealer once.
If you compare the size, performance, comfort features, etc. of the 2 vehicles, they are almost identical. Actually, the Acura is probably a better performance vehicle. It handles great and would probably beat the Cayenne in a race (on a track or drag race).
But the price I paid for the Acura RDX is exactly 50% of what I paid for the Cayenne.
Many people buy Porsches primarily because they buy into Porsche's advertising and marketing, not because they know cars or want a quality product. I used to think they were uninformed fools, with more money than sense. But now I realize that I may be one of them!
This is not my first Porsche, but I cannot imagine buying another.
b-man
So right now, it is almost 14 months old (with about 24k miles on it). I have been back to the dealership for warranty repairs about 10 or 15 times. Honestly, it's been so many times that I have lost count.
As a point of comparison, I bought a new Acura RDX (2015 model year) for my wife a few months before I got this Cayenne. The Acura has not had a single problem. Let me make that more clear--I have not been back to the Acura dealer once.
If you compare the size, performance, comfort features, etc. of the 2 vehicles, they are almost identical. Actually, the Acura is probably a better performance vehicle. It handles great and would probably beat the Cayenne in a race (on a track or drag race).
But the price I paid for the Acura RDX is exactly 50% of what I paid for the Cayenne.
Many people buy Porsches primarily because they buy into Porsche's advertising and marketing, not because they know cars or want a quality product. I used to think they were uninformed fools, with more money than sense. But now I realize that I may be one of them!
This is not my first Porsche, but I cannot imagine buying another.
b-man